posted on August 1, 2001 12:19:57 PM
I think there are folks who post here who could, and often do, write funnier, pithier send-ups or "tips and traps" than this lady.
posted on August 1, 2001 12:31:36 PM
Erma Bombeck she is not. The AW Board sees funnier stories, wittier commentary and more practical tips. Ahhh well, I am sure she earned her buck for the experience.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:19:10 PM
It appears to me that the author failed to do her homework if these "tips" were the only things she picked up during her "internship" on eBay.
I can't find one substantive thing about the piece, other that the fact that she had a desire to write a trendy article about eBay.
Wouldn't it be nice if a reporter or investigator would actually take the time to learn about what we do. It's facinating and inventive stuff and is setting the stage for the commerce that is being conducted now, and that will be done in the future.
We're modern day Pioneers and Entrepreneurs, not flea market salespeople. We've founded and developed a new marketing channel that is changing the way the world does business.
We've incorporated sales, marketing, distribution and technology into tiny internet ads that are being seen and reacted to worldwide! Starup companies are selling globally with ease! Stay-at-home moms are becoming business owners and our grandparents are joining along in selling their well-aged antiques. Junior is buying his Pokemon cards in quantity from a dealer a world away, while sis searches for her Power Puff luchbox set at wholesale with a click of mouse. There's a marketing revolution going on and it's too bad the press is missing out on it!
It's just too bad the press doesn't have the time or inclination to really want to know about the amazing things we have accomplished. For some reason they would rather write a 6 paragraph article about the "fluff" in selling online, not the nuts and bolts. The tiresome "Fraud" that supposedly surrounds eBay is also becoming old. And I don't ever again want hear about the Kidney that was jokingly offered in auction last year...
The press needs to wake up and start portraying eBay and us online entrpreneurs in a manner that is accurate. We're the future and it's high time we start being recognized for our accompishments.
Should any reporter wish to tackle this project, please leave a message on this board. It will be answered by one or several of us online professionals in an accurate and informative manner, which will allow you to complete the only comprehesive and accurate article written to date on this subject.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:30:48 PM
Well, granted that it is a fluff piece, and there have been better posted here. The author/seller is admittedly a newbie; that's kind of the premise of the article. She isn't going to have the perspective that we do after years of "selling in the trenches."
I noticed a discussion going on elsewhere where posters were frothing at the mouth about suggestions to look at other sellers' code.
Here's an exact quote from the article:
... the cool guys showed me how to lift HTML code from other descriptions that you like and use them in your own. It's sort of a cut-and-paste school of graphic design.
Now the subject of copying has been bounced around here for a long time. Everyone knows that newbies do look at other authors' code and copy constructions they like. (I am not saying it's okay to duplicate other authors' code.) Is the author advocating "stealing" other sellers' descriptions?
Also, I took this article as largely tongue-in-cheek, so I read a lot of humor into it. See the section about using her family pet name as a User ID.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:36:55 PM
Yes, the article was tongue-in cheek, which is exactly my point.
How many truly informative articles have been written on the subject of online selling? Very few. In fact, I've failed to run across a single piece, that truly captures the essence of our trade.
It would be refreshing to see someone take on the project, don't you think? Otherwise, the only reference we'll ever have for online selling will be "eBay for Dummies".
posted on August 1, 2001 01:37:26 PM
I liked the WSJ article a few months ago better.
twinsoft,
I agree...I wasn't too thrilled w/seeing the "lift" the html line in there either. And in another section "steal" was directly used. Wonder if she'd be flattered if someone lifted some of HER copy & dropped it in another story w/o permission.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:47:54 PM
computerboy: you have already proved my point, your off the cuff commentary is far better written and more interesting, not to mention inspiring, than her piece.
As for the advice to steal HTML code from other auctions, why stop there? Why not recommend that folks get all their book photos by stealing from the Amazon database as a seller in my town told me she did?
The sales tax comment was only half truth since many of us properly do collect and pay state sales tax.
Not to take it all too seriously, but it would be nice to see more sophistication.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:49:33 PM
CB, yes I would like to see that. eBay doesn't get much respect in the media. Though from a marketing standpoint, maybe that's the way eBay likes it. Considering many newbies paranoia concerning computers, Internet and online sales, maybe the "online flea market" approach is the one that works. But no matter how the media perceives us, I don't think Wall St. is looking at us as a bunch of Yahoos. (Maybe, a bunch of Yahoos with big bucks to spend!)
I would like to see a serious article about eBay. If it was written by someone in the know, I doubt it would be as funny and upbeat as the one above though.
Eventer, there is plenty of room for miscommunication in the article. It takes a funny tone, then advocates stealing from other authors' pages. Is the writer kidding, or serious? 'Kind of hard to believe that a journalist for a major national newspaper is openly advocating plagiarism.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on August 1, 2001 02:07:40 PM'Kind of hard to believe that a journalist for a major national newspaper is openly advocating plagiarism.
Then again, remember back some number of years ago when either a Washington Post or NY Times columnist lost their job over their prize winning column which turned out to be a virtual fabrication?
Excellent post! Write an op/ed letter to USA Today; maybe they'll print it!
But I'd like to point out that in my opinion, " For some reason they would rather write a 6 paragraph article about the "fluff" in selling online, not the nuts and bolts" is what you'd expect from that particular paper - it doesn't strike me as one the intelligentsia reads on a regular basis.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:23:37 AMcomputerboy First, let me say your post was excellent.
Not too long ago a reporter did post here asking for people to get in touch with him as he intended to write an article about online selling. All he found was sarcasm & ridicule.
I wish I could find the thread, maybe now is the time to invite him back.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:31:08 AMWe're modern day Pioneers and Entrepreneurs, not flea market salespeople.
We are?? Wow, and I thought I was just in it for the money...like 99% of the other people on eBay...a good portion of which were or still do sell at flea markets as well.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:37:40 AMNot too long ago a reporter did post here asking for people to get in touch with him as he intended to write an article about online selling. All he found was sarcasm & ridicule.
Is this the one? If so, and I were that reporter, I don't think I'd come back.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:45:40 AM
That's the one. Actually, the article he wrote in the WSJ was very insightful and funny. It came out in early June and was a zillion times more interesting & informative than the USA Today one.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:57:02 AM
I found no fault with the article. Everything she mentioned is about on par with the eBay experience. Garage sale/ flea market is what the venue is and it appears that by adding large corps as sellers is not going to shake that image.
One thing I'm glad she mentioned was that FB ratings make a difference and are valuable.
This discernment of FB will be nice should I sell my user ID.
posted on August 2, 2001 11:16:44 AM
Perhaps I am viewing the experience through different eyes, as I still find the amount of business that is being generated via this online venue simply amamzing. Apparently, big business agrees, as many companies are now incorporating eBay sales into their business models.
Catagorizing this new internet sales medium as flea markets and garage sales isn't accurate or correct, as we are dealing with a new medium, in its infancy, that will have a longstanding impact on how business will be done in the future.
The flea market salesperson was the beginning of trade. They should be likened to the open air market sellers that offered their wares in the Middle East and Asia long ago. They served, and continue to serve, a very important purpose in trade and in our economy and this direct selling approach will always be around.
This group of "Yankee Peddlers" are made up of of mom and pop selling operations that incorporate many entrepreneral skills to run their businesses. They're importers, hunters & gathers, retailers, negotiators all wrapped up into unique companies, no one alike. They deserve their own identity, as they have earned it, and it is quite different than selling on eBay or on any other online venue.
The purpose of the above is point out that each of the above selling methods deserves its own respected title and that melding them into one deragatory "catagory" is inaccurate and disrespectful. Each has earned its marks and deserves to be shed in a positive light.
Now and into the future, kindly refer to me as Mr. Computerboy, the online entrepreneur.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:03:32 PM
Computerboy- You have pointed out distinguishing elements that offer no significant difference.
Take for example what someone states when he/she purchases something from seller x on eBay.
No one says they bought item y from seller x. They invaribly state they bought item y on eBay.
The same type statement is made when something is purchased at a garage sale or flea market.
There is no seller branded on eBay. Only eBay is branded on eBay. This is another reason eBay wishes to limit communication between sellers and buyers as well as disallow links, and limiting icons on the auction page. eBay does not want any seller to be able to independently brand his/her business through eBay.
In the past 5 or 6 years of huge growth of sales on eBay there is not one seller who has been able to brand through eBay. There is little or no mention of individual sellers in eBay press, nor what they sell.
You may be a Power Seller with thousands of sales, but you have no brand recognition, and therefore you have no market without eBay. This hasn't happened by accident.
There is no difference between garage sales and eBay, except to say that eBay owns the garage.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:40:46 PM
Well, I don't have a problem with being called an online flea marketer. I do sell a lot of stuff that comes from flea markets and Goodwill stores. The bulk of my feedback though comes from the auction management tools I've developed for eBay. Does that mean that I'm a software engineer or a hacker? (Right now I'm working on one specifically designed for another site.)
When I joined eBay, it was indeed a virtual flea market. That was before the pros and the college kids and the etailers discovered it. I also strongly feel that the open bazaar atmosphere was what created eBay's immense popularity. People enjoyed browsing the listings, and interacting with "just plain folks" half a continent away.
Are we flea marketeers or new age entrepreneurs? I don't really understand the distinction there. But ComputerBoy's argument kind of reminds me of the eBay resume thread where some folks suggested using the term "CEO" to describe their current position. (It's a little over the top.)
MrPotatohead brings up a good point. Whenever a reporter shows up here, they get their head handed to them on a platter. I remember the writer from the San Jose Mercury who showed up, gave their address as [email protected], and got treated like an eBay spy. Very sad.
I agree with Reamond and the point about branding is true. I live in Silicon Valley where every day a new company announces thousands of layoffs. Let me tell you, five years selling experience on eBay and seventy-five cents gets you a cup of coffee at 7-11.
I still agree with ComputerBoy though that there should be more realistic pieces about eBay, not just "cleaning out my garage" fluff stuff. Because we are in a unique position of riding the crest of this new wave.
Anyway, speaking to the topic of this thread. I guess you guys don't share the same perspective as another discussion I observed where posters were ballistic about the article's "helpful hints." I mean we're talking nasty flame emails to USAToday.com.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on August 2, 2001 12:51:56 PM
What a piece of work...
-As for the article...I thought it was pretty funny. I checked out her auctions, and I would think for a reporter, her spelling would be a little better.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:56:00 PM
While sometimes difficult, I do believe that private branding does takes place on eBay.
It's not uncommon for eBay seller's to have many regular repeat customers. I can run off a list of many sellers that eBay users are all familar with, whether they have purchased from them or not. A Few examples are:
Post Office Mail recover unit
Onecentcds
proworth
bargainland
returnbuy
idealtrade
fastmodems
etc...
These companies have established themselves on eBay and people are familiar with their name, products and services. They have built businesses using eBay, Yahoo!, uBid etc. and with their own websites. They have an identity and its not just an eBay id.
posted on August 2, 2001 01:02:26 PM
Thanks for the link to that older thread, I got a good laugh and [as usual] appreciated the pearls of wisdom and insight many people contributed, as well as the grammar tips. The point about finding us small sellers at the Post Office is very true, my local P.O. knows us very well. They could point to me as the gal trailing small kids who shows up buried under boxes every day.
posted on August 2, 2001 01:10:17 PMIs this the one? If so, and I were that reporter, I don't think I'd come back.
He never did make a second post in that thread. If he had, and it wasn't insulting to sellers, he might have gotten a better reception. If you ask me, he kinda asked for it. It would be like me asking for advise here, but saying I only wanted advise from inexperienced people.
posted on August 3, 2001 12:41:07 AM
Computerboy- I have been on eBay for 5 years and none of the user IDs you mention are branded by selling on eBay.
The Postal Service was branded before coming to eBay.
As for the others, I couldn't tell you what they sell nor what marketing elements I could identify those sellers by.
Think of it this way- If I mention Disney, IBM, AOL, Ford, nearly anyone will know the name and products of these companies. Not so with eBay sellers.
If a seller could actually brand on eBay, they wouldn't stay on eBay, they would have their own flourishing online sales site.
Sellers are totally dependent on eBay by design.
The entity that controls the buyers, controls the sellers. eBay has used every tool available to this, including attempting to control communication between seller and buyers, no link policies, and controling icons on the auction page. These things have nothing to do with spam or "leakage", but have everything to do with branding directed towards buyers.
If you want to become independent of eBay, start using branding strategies for YOUR business.
posted on August 3, 2001 08:51:35 AM
My company is branded. So are the others.
In addition to eBay, I run a retail website that has had hundreds of thousands of unique visitors. I have a steady stream of buyers, both wholesale and retail worldwide, that buy from us on a regular basis. We're in search engines and also have banner ads. The truth is that if you are in my business, you know who I am. If you are looking for our type of product on the net, you'll most likley find us.
Your points about eBay are right on target. They make every possible effort to keep a stranglehold on the customer base, communication and the sellers on their website. However, there are many companies, like mine, who started their company selling on eBay and have been successful in creating our own unique branded entitity. Much, if not most of this success, has been attributed to our activity on the ebay website.
Am I still a flea market salesperson by your definition?
posted on August 3, 2001 11:00:36 AM
I both buy and sell on eBay. I have purchased everything from laptops to art work on eBay.
Without looking into my records, I couldn't tell you who I bought any of the items from. If asked, I always say I bought it on eBay.
The sellers on eBay are all fungible, that is, interchangeable, because NONE of us are branded on the site.
Everything else I have purchased I can tell you where I bought it from, whether a PC or a refrigerator.
When I shop on eBay I do not search for sellers, I search for particular items.
Any seller on eBay that is truely branded is now doing more direct sales to his/her buyers than sales on eBay. If you have buyers that consistently deal with you, but only through eBay, you are not branded, again eBay is the driving force behind the purchase, not you.
For these reasons, none of the sellers on eBay are branded. The buyer is just like the buyer that goes to a Flea Market. He/she is not looking for vendors, but items.
We are all Flea Market sellers on eBay - makes no difference what you sell.
posted on August 3, 2001 11:09:06 AM
I didn't like the part about 'stealing' good descriptions and lifting HMTL formats. This will just encourage what a lot of people complain about now. Obviously this person writing the story is too used to stealing bits and pieces from other sources and thinks it is fine on ebay.
AND it is NOT a worldwide garage sale. This person should be sentenced to 12 deadbeats, 24 site crashes and 2 extra long wait times in the postal line.
The AW Board sees funnier stories, wittier commentary and more practical tips. Ahhh well, I am sure she earned her buck for the experience.
The author/seller is admittedly a newbie; that's kind of the premise of the article. She isn't going to have the perspective that we do after years of "selling in the trenches."
