kennycam
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:00:36 PM new
Why does PayPal want us to enter a credit card number to verify shipping address when we are paying from funds in our PayPal account? That is stupid.
1. They sent us our Debit Card to that address.
2. They send our checks to that address.
3. They have verified us with a bank account.
4. We are paying with funds in our PayPal account, not with a credit card. Why do we need to enter a credit card number to confirm shipping address?
We know that to help prevent fraud and chargeback, it is important to have a confirmed billing address, if payment is being made with a credit card. BUT THE PAYMENT IS BEING TRANSFER FROM OUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT TO THE SELLER’S ACCOUNT.
There has to be some ulterior motive why PayPal wants a person’s credit account as well. We are sorry but they are not getting it.
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curlectables
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:06:38 PM new
Have you tried posting this question to the paypal section of this board? I agree that this is a very stupid rule. Perhaps paypaldamon has a response for you!!!
I only have one question for you. How did you manage to get registered in the first place without them twisting your arm for a credit card number?
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gfs23
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:10:13 PM new
I Have to say I reasoned this and was very reluctant to start faxing personal details
in order to get my card verified. I Did in the end do it and as much as I berated them at the time, they are very efficient (as much as it pains me to say it !!) -- money sent and received turns up in the right places and more importantly if I ask them to transfer money to my bank account then I just know within 48 hours it will be done.
Afraid to say they have the market !!!
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:10:55 PM new
Hi,
The credit card is the only way to verify the street address. The credit card passes an avs check, which supports the address the credit card company has on record.
Verifying a bank account does not support the address, as no address is verified.
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kennycam
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:15:10 PM new
Damon:
We are paying from funds already in our PayPal account, not with a credit card, so how can we commit fraud with funds already in our account?
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:18:28 PM new
Hi kennycam,
I am not stating that it will be used fraudulently. However, our Seller Protection Program does dictate the shipments go to a confirmed address. The only way to confirm the address is a credit card passing the avs screen.
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kennycam
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:21:25 PM new
Curlectables:
We signed up with PayPal when they just started up. Those were the good old days when you would get $10.00 credited to your account just for signing up, and you did not have to jump through all these hoops.
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kennycam
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:26:59 PM new
Damon:
Are you saying that the address where PayPal sends my checks and Debit Card is not enough for a seller to ship my goods. I will just use the Debit Card to pay for the goods and get the cash back from PayPal for doing it. It was nice and easy to just transfer funds from my account to the seller's account, now we will just send them a money order or use the debit card.
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wbbell
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posted on August 14, 2001 01:58:20 PM new
There has to be some ulterior motive why PayPal wants a person’s credit account as well. We are sorry but they are not getting it.
There is a blurb in the PursePal TOS that says if you owe any money to paypal for any reason (such as a payment reversal due to chargeback) then they may debit your registered bank accout and/or your CC to get that money.
But that wouldn't apply here if you are only a buyer (not a seller). But then, how do you get money into your account if not from selling and people paying you? (I realize you can xfer money from your bank into paypal but didn't think anyone actually ever did that.)
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dman3
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posted on August 14, 2001 02:11:59 PM new
kennycam
What if someone got your paypal password and hacked your account or something and paypal didnt ask for this verification would you them be calling paypal stupid..
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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WBDareMe
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posted on August 14, 2001 03:46:05 PM new
Caution: long rant ahead
I agree this rule is so stupid. I had a confirmed address for over a year, then I changed the expiration date on my card. All of a sudden my address was unconfirmed.
Somehow managed to get it straightened out and got confirmed, then a few months later, my address was inexplicably unconfirmed again! I never did receive any explanation why.
I have lived here for 20 years. My credit card statements come to this address. I've entered the address exactly as it comes on my statement. Still unconfirmed.
I wasted quite a bit of time with customer "service" on four different occasions (oh, after the email where the customer service rep wouldn't give me the 800 number, but made me call long distance to Omaha). Finally someone had the brilliant idea to send me another address confirmation form. I received it three weeks later, entered the information, thought all was ok now as the confirmation screen said "address confirmed".
Yippee, I thought. Huh. Next time I tried to pay, my address was still unconfirmed! After another lengthy phone call, they tell me I'm not able to use this card to confirm my address.
Then why did they bother with the stupid address confirmation if it's worthless???
I give up. Paypal has lost a good customer.
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GreetingsfromUK
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posted on August 14, 2001 04:46:29 PM new
Paypal has details of my UK Bank and Credit Card on file. I have no problem with that. eBay has my UK Credit Card on file. Yet again I have no problem. You are more at risk giving your credit card to a waiter for a meal than Paypal or eBay.
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bemused
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posted on August 14, 2001 07:21:38 PM new
Since you can still file a complaint regarding funds transferred from your balance, I would think it would be in the seller's interest to request a confirmed address. Some sellers have their accounts set-up to reject payments without a confirmed address (like me).
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capotasto
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posted on August 14, 2001 07:33:09 PM new
wbbell I think you are wrong, paypal cannot electronically withdraw from your bank account without your permission and the TOS does not contain that permission.
HOWEVER and this may answer kennycam's question -- from the TOS (in case of a chrgeback etc):
"PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means. You authorize PayPal to charge your credit card or debit card, in the amount of any debt to PayPal."
So kenny since paypal does not know whether you will become a seller - who does not have a penny in his balance - they want your CC number for this reason.
Vinnie
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wbbell
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posted on August 14, 2001 07:37:18 PM new
capotasto looks like you're right, a few paragraphs later they very strongly state they will not zap your bank account. But they seem to have no problem zapping your credit card.
It's a moot point for me since I have already given them my whole life story - but they still won't give me the merchant rate because I refuse to give them the one piece of info they currently don't have on me - my SSN
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kennycam
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posted on August 14, 2001 08:03:46 PM new
We use the account as both a seller and a buyer. The issue is not how the funds get into the account, but why they need the CC information.
Dman3: PayPal already has our address on file that they send checks and our debit card to. It is the same address that we use for accepting packages. If the address is valid enough for PayPal to send checks and debit card, why is it not valid to send a package?
Vinnie: If PayPal wants the credit card information in case they need to do a charge back, they should say so and not beat around the bush and keep lying that it is need for shipping confirmation purposes only.
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commentary
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posted on August 15, 2001 12:00:15 AM new
There is no ulterior motive. They are just brain dead.
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mballai
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posted on August 15, 2001 09:23:42 AM new
Brain dead? Doesn't that presume that a brain existed? 
It's bad business logic. If you have once verified a correct address, you store it as permanent memory variable, unless the user updates THAT specific variable separately--a different expiration date doesn't change it and if you have confirmed the debit card neither does any added verification be needed. Whatever you check you then apply afterwards asks for that variable.
Again only if the address is updated separately by the user, should a validation be necessary. An expiration date change can trigger an automatic validation check with the credit card company: the card is first validated and the current address variable is then checked against what the cc company has on file. How hard is that?
What PayPal is trying to do is run their biz BY chargeback process instead of running their business WITH some chargeback process. They are alienating their customers.
I see this repeatedly with PayPal who is continually running BY process instead of WITH it. You are supposed to mold the process around serving the customer, not trying to mold the customer around serving your business process.
Let's sing: "If I only had a brain..."
[ edited by mballai on Aug 15, 2001 09:29 AM ]
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on August 15, 2001 09:53:06 AM new
Just that rule? How about this one?
One of the requirements for protection under their "seller protection policy" is that an item is shipped to a confirmed address.
How do they verify this? Well, one way they say is acceptable is to use USPS Delivery Confirmation. However, if you check the USPS website, you will find that Delivery Confirmation shows only that an item was delivered- it does not verify delivery to a specific address.
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mballai
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posted on August 15, 2001 10:34:54 AM new
What I described above is understood from the second week of Programming 101. PayPal just doesn't get it (they're not alone in this--even the ATM isn't smart enough to remember that I prefer my prompts in English). I can't blame them entirely for what appears to be a genetic management deficiency. This seems to be an ongoing problem with many companies and puts the poor economy troubles much more directly into their own hands where it belongs. Companies let their technology run at the same low level thinking as their management.
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gravid
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posted on August 15, 2001 10:41:05 AM new
It sure does not - they have delivered packages I sent and verified they delivered them to a different zip code than what I listed. They delivered one package I addresses to Washington state to San Diego!
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on August 15, 2001 10:52:15 AM new
They delivered one package I addresses to Washington state to San Diego!
Well, according to PayPal's latest post on the subject, that wouldn't be good enough for them. If you could manage to get it to the right zip code, though, that would work.
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