posted on August 27, 2001 09:33:51 AM
As readers here know, we do not leave Negative Feedback unless provoked. However, we are agressive users of the NPB / FVF system in order to recover eBay fees and get bad apples off the eBay user list.
We are having an increasing number of these scenarios: no response to our first email, no response to our second email, no response to the NPB from EBay, THEN when they get the FVF and non-paying bidder warning from eBay (6 weeks after auction ended) they want to pay. At this point I have invested a great deal of time and effort into a silly little transaction.
I'm trying to formulate a policy here for dealing with these situations. In cases where we emailed the item ahead of time and were never paid, we request payment, of course. If we had NOT sent the item yet and if the buyer at this points asks if he still can pay, then we tell him NO it's too late, that the item has been re-listed.
But what about the guy who sends in the money via, say, Paypal after all this time? He also, of course, wants me to invest additional time and effort to remove the NPB warning against him. This is apparently the only reason he has finally paid. Were it not for the warning he would have completely blown us off by this time.
How do you handle these customers? To return the money to them via PayPal costs me additional money, since I did not get all the money he sent due to the PayPal fees. If he paid by check now I must either deposit it or return it at additional cost. It also causes additional bookkeeping and time spent. And, what if the item is no longer here?
Trying to get a few ideas for a formal policy. I am interested in doing the least possible further work on this transaction with the strongest assurance that the transaction will no longer trouble me again. Thanks for your help.
posted on August 27, 2001 09:56:17 AM
"no response to our second email, no response to the NPB from EBay, THEN when they get the FVF and non-paying bidder warning from eBay (6 weeks after auction ended) they want to pay. At this point I have invested a great deal of time and effort into a silly little transaction"
Why would you waste so much time for a deadbeat? Once I file for my FVF, that's it.
Now I relist and move on.
As far as paypal goes, change your settings so that they can not send a payment in without your consent.
Never felt it was my job to babysit or hold someone's hand.
posted on August 27, 2001 10:01:34 AM
Gosh, Marie, looks like any direction you take is going to mean taking some time.
Just some thoughts off the top of my head:
For the late PayPal (w/o item sent), you could just return the PayPal money less your PayPal fees. That way, you don't have to go looking for the item and, as a matter of policy, refuse the remove the NPB.
For the check writer, I would just return it, even though it costs you money. Unfortunately, there's no way around it unless you want to go through w/each and every sale regardless of when they are paid for.
My personal business plan says once I file the NPB, there's no going back. If they send money, it's returned. If they want the item, it's no longer available.
The idea is to turn over merchandise rapidly. Can't do that if you are sitting around waiting on a customer to decide when they want to pay. (strictly MY opinion, not recommending this approach to work for everyone).
posted on August 27, 2001 10:28:46 AM
Happy Monday, Marie!
Considering the amount of volume you do, I'm unsure as to how you feel about being Negged, But...
just before you file the FVF, why not click on their addy and send them a "don't bother, it's too late" note reiterating info from NPB warning they received 10 days earlier from eBay?
Specifically, I am referring to:
1)If you have already sent payment or intend to pay soon, please contact xx at xx.com immediately. (oops, they didn't contact you)
and
2)Remember: Your seller is under no obligation to "hold" your item since much time has already passed.(oops, item was relisted, don't bother to send $$)
Properly worded, you may lessen the risk of being negged for it.
The immediate FVF filing could also NARU the deadbeat, eliminating the fb altogether.
posted on August 27, 2001 10:49:27 AM
"However, we are agressive users of the NPB / FVF system in order to recover eBay fees and get bad apples off the eBay user list."
If this is really the "MAIN GOAL" and I believe that it is, as I do the same thing, WHY would you consider removing the warning?
If they want to pay, FINE, let them, but so what? They dragged their feet, cost you money, frustrated you to no end, and ONLY AFTER the consequences of their actions do they want another chance.
Look, eBay offers 3 WARNINGS before any actions are taken. The Warning you filed is IRRELEVANT if it's the only one. If not, don't we want this deadbeat gone? Let them sign up under an new addy since we can't stop that, but the best way for a deadbeat to learn is to let them suffer the consequences of THEIR actions.
FWIW, I don't leave negative feedback anymore either. It just is NOT worth it, to me. (Please all you naysayers, don't just captialize on this point and flame the group, stay on topic, Send the flames to me at my email address)
[email protected]
posted on August 27, 2001 11:19:47 AM
If I still have the item (or an identical one), I ship it. (Why turn down money?)
If I've sold the item (and don't have any duplicates), I return the money.
If the item (or my last duplicate) is currently listed, I end the auction early and ship the item if there are no bids. If there are bids, I return the money & let the auction run to completion.
Some percentage of your customers will always require more attention than they're worth. It's part of the cost of doing business.
posted on August 27, 2001 12:07:43 PM
I don't understand the part about removing the warning. I don't even know how to do that, and in no case have I ever been asked to do it. I send follow-ups and reminders so when I break down and request a warning, they've had plenty of chances to let me know if they are having trouble or if I have made a mistake [not cleared my records properly or whatever].
If they don't respond to the NPB, I wait a while then leave negative FB and relist or dispose of the item.
posted on August 27, 2001 01:53:16 PM
I think this is also a question of scale.
Marie sells more items per week than most people do in a year. To take the extra time and effort for the few people who send payment late is more of a pain when there is so much more work to be done.
We do a fair amount of volume as well.
If they send payment late, and we have it in stock, we ship.
We don't take PayPal but if we did, I would refund minus the fees. We do the same with BillPoint.
With a check or money order, I reseal the envelope, scratch out my address and scrawl, "RETURN TO SENDER" on the envelope and dump it in the mail.
Other than that, they don't deserve any more effort. I've got better things to do than babysit late payers and I'm sure Marie does as well.
posted on August 27, 2001 02:14:42 PM
Frist to save your self time if the Buyer sends the payment it is less time and more cost effective just to ship the item they bought.
There is no rule stateing you have to remove NPB at all, but if you feel the need do it after waiting a month just like they paid you.
That how I work it if a buyer is very slow and I have to file NPB before I get paid I still ship the Item but they keep the NPB as a free gift..
posted on August 27, 2001 02:35:04 PM
I will never remove an NPB warning.
Let them learn from their mistakes.
Reminds me of a Boss I once had.
I called in late and was reprimanded when I walked in the door.
"But I called", I responded.
"Yes, you did. But you were still late!!"
Anyway, I already invested enough time on the transaction to bother going in to remove the NPB.
No problem spending the time adding them to my blocked bidder list, though!
posted on August 27, 2001 02:56:15 PM
I am a teacher in Junior Hi, and it's part of a generational trend. The generation that doesn't have to face consequences for their actions. They have always been able to talk their way out of stuff. They get suspended from school, & parents are annoyed at the school, because they both work, (the kids are thrilled, they get a few days off!) I have a niece who lived the same way. She got away with murder (not literally!). She finally had to face consequences when she was 17 and ran up daddy's credit card, and her college fund was used to pay off the debt.
posted on August 27, 2001 04:38:02 PM
I handle extremely late payments (6+ weeks) based on each individual situation.
For example, if a payment came in late, but was postmarked within a reasonable time and (through no fault of the bidder) was delayed in the postal system, I gladly send their item if it's still available. If FVF was filed, I reverse that as well.
In other situations, even if the item is still available, there have been a handful of times that I didn't want to fool with it. For example, today I received a check from a bidder for an auction that ended a little over six weeks ago. Since the auction ended, the bidder has accumulated several negs for non-payment, as well as a neg for a bounced check that she has not paid for. She has been suspended. Although I didn't neg her, FVF has already been filed. At this point, I really don't want to invest any further time in this transaction. Her check is getting sent back, uncashed, in tomorrow's mail.
But generally speaking, unless it's an extreme situation, if the item is still available, I send it and reverse the FVF. If it's been relisted, I send their payment back uncashed.
As a side note, last month I had a suspended bidder who tried to pay me for an auction that ended ... I'm not kidding ... in FEBRUARY! The item was, of course, no longer available, so I sent her payment (about $5) back. I had to laugh about it, though. Maybe I should start offering layaway ...
posted on August 27, 2001 04:54:25 PM
I have not had anyone pay late. They've all either paid within a few weeks or not at all. If this does happen someday, if the item is no longer available I'll just shred/tear up the check or money order and throw it away. After all that I figure they should be as inconvenienced as I was in some way.
I'm about to have a couple pissed off buyers. It's my fault. Their item was supposed to be mailed out almost a month ago (I had been waiting for check to clear or I'd mailed it out when pmt received)and the two packages (going to 2 diff. buyers) fell behind the bookshelf. I thought I had mailed them, but I've been moving to a new apt (to keep my puppy)and they were discovered when the bookshelf was moved out. If they neg me I deserve it big time
posted on August 28, 2001 09:29:58 AM
Actually, I found a great way to get rid of a check. I had a buyer send a check. It was lost in the mail, so they sent another. When the original check arrived, I wrote VOID, tore it into 10 pieces, arranged them on my scanner so it was obvious that it said void, and was torn. Scaned it and sent the scan. This saved me the $.40 to mail it, and let the buyer know the check was taken car of. I see no reason that this would not work in your situation.
posted on August 28, 2001 10:21:24 AM
We send a total of three e-mails before filing for FVF credit. In our second e-mail, we include this NPB link for our use: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?NPBComplaintConfirm&userid=[YourEbayId]&pass=[YourEncryptedPassword]&itemno=[ItemNumber]
There is a way to auto file, but we like the option of specifying the non-payment reason. But if you wanted to auto-file, you could just add &reason=[ReasonNumber] to the end of the URL.
In our third e-mail, we include the FVF Credit Request link: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?CreditRequest
I'll have to do some more testing on the CreditRequest link with a deadbeat , but I believe it will be possible to automate that as well.
Thanks,
Sun W.
****
[edit]Just realized this is a security hole because the buyer could login in to your account screen using the encrypted password. So to workaround this you can leave your password blank then enter it in once you have clicked on the link.[/edit]
* ~ * ~ * ~ *
http://techgems.net
[ edited by sun818 on Aug 28, 2001 10:41 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2001 10:50:49 AM
If there is no response to a second email, I file an NPB on day 7 and then get FVF credit ten days later if I do not hear from them. That's 17 days and 90%+ of all bidders are usually well paid up by then.
There's absolutely no sense in babysitting deadbeats and slow payers. They destroy any profits in recovery time alone. Most of my items are small dollar ones which means you really can't afford to have anything go 30 days or longer. If you want to wait 30 days before getting your FVF credit, fine, but not another day longer.
