soldat2
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posted on August 31, 2001 08:14:55 PM
A while back I came across one of those .01 dutch auctions with a $4.99 shipping & handling clause, per item. I emailed ebay and asked if that was legal. They returned me a semi form letter stating that they had checked out the auction in question and found no TOS violation!
My question is does anyone here use that sort of auction?
Anyone ever get a warning from ebay about fee avoidance??
Reason is that we have several hundred items here that I could dutch for .01 each and charge $1.99 for the first item shipping & handling, then .99 each for every item therafter. That is certainly a reasonable amount for S&H, just wonder how 'legal' it is.
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dman3
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posted on August 31, 2001 08:24:29 PM
you could do that and pay ebay there fee's ????
Cause I have to tell you I can not run an auction dutch or other wise for .01 cent charge just exsact postage and come out even or better on sales includeing all the fee's.
it cost .30 just to pay for the listing pluss FVF per item sold.
I believe it cost .50 or better to list a dutch auction.
between Listing fees FVF third party credit card fee's photo hosting cost and all it cost me nearly $2 to run a single auction and that don't include the cost of the inventory to sell.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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bkmunroe
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posted on August 31, 2001 10:22:40 PM
Actually, if he had a dutch auction for 100 items at 1c each and sold all of them at 1c each his total fees (insertion and FVF) would only be 30c.
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kckckc
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posted on September 1, 2001 12:10:03 AM
How ironic! I just recieved the same letter back from eBay too! I turned in a seller who was selling something for $.01, and charging $8.99 shipping (for a small metal vehicle no heavier than a few ounces). I sent in all of the numerous offending auction numbers, and recived the same form letter. I do not see how this could NOT be fee avoidance. The only silver lining was that this guy had NO bids, and had recived very few for the last few listing weeks. Maybe bidders are wising up...
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soldat2
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posted on September 1, 2001 07:00:21 AM
>you could do that and pay ebay there fee's ????<
Yup, I could.
We have several hundred items that we have maybe .15 each in and because there are about 20 different 'styles' it would mean that people would more than likely dutch for several at a time. If they bid on 5, there cost would be...
.01 plus $1.99 (S&H) $2.00
4-.01 plus $3.96 (S&H) $4.00
Total of $6.00
(shipping with the bubble mailer cost us about $1.25)
As these are extras of items that we only sold for $1.00 in the first place we're really not loosing anything anyway.
Because it is legal under ebays TOS, I may try it just for yucks. 
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on September 1, 2001 05:14:19 PM
Here we go again. This is certainly NOT fee avoidance.
1¢ is the STARTING bid. If the winning bidder(s) end up paying a final price of $30 would you still consider it fee avoidance?
Let's assume this seller has 5 widgets listed for 1¢ opening bid and a $4.99 P&H charge. Now lets assume that 30 people place bids on these 5 items and the auction closes with an ending successful bid of $10.01. Would you still consider this to be fee avoidance?
Now lets assume that the seller lists 5000 of these widgets for an opening bid of 1¢ and $4.99 postage & handling. The odds are overwhelmingly against this guy getting bids for all 5000 widgets so the auction will likey close at 1¢. Is it fee avoidance now? Not at all! With ebaY's user base at several million, it IS defintely within the realm of possibility that all 5000 widgets may sell, even at a much higher price. Likely? Of course not. Possible? Definitely!
Once again, with feeling... The opening bid price has NOTHING whatsoever to do with what is (or is not) a reasonable shipping/handling charge for an item. And according to ebaY their user base is several million people and growing. Based on ebaY's claims, why shouldn't a seller expect his dutch auctions to end at a higher price than the opening bid (or at least hope they do)?
[ edited by MrBusinessMan on Sep 1, 2001 05:17 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on September 1, 2001 05:27:31 PM
Is there some harm it is creating for you that you have an interest, to be contacting eBay, or are you just one of these people that gets joy from minding other people's business instead of your own?
[ edited by gravid on Sep 1, 2001 05:44 PM ]
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luvjunk
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posted on September 1, 2001 05:49:28 PM
Please be sure to let us know when these auctions are up and running so that someone can report them to eBay for investigation.
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on September 1, 2001 06:00:36 PM
Please be sure to let us know when these auctions are up and running so that someone can report them to eBay for investigation.
Report them for what exactly? These are legitimate auctions.
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mballai
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posted on September 1, 2001 07:24:02 PM
I got the same response from eBay regarding an auction with a $1.00 item and a $15.00 shipping charge (real cost is about $2.00)
Maybe I'll do BIN for a penny and ship for $10.
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luvjunk
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posted on September 1, 2001 08:32:13 PM
Report them for what exactly? These are legitimate auctions.
As were the ones they themselves reported.
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sadie999
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posted on September 1, 2001 11:42:12 PM
My bet is that the most successful sellers don't have time to go turning folks in to eBay. They're too busy making money.
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celebrityskin
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posted on September 2, 2001 12:49:12 AM
"1¢ is the STARTING bid. If the winning bidder(s) end up paying a final price of $30 would you still consider it fee avoidance? "
Well it is Dutch auction....
So if you listed 100 at .01 you would need 101 bidders to drive the price above .01.
Sure... that's the plan.
"Of course not. Possible? Definitely! "
Sure a lighting bolt might strike you in the head as well.
If a seller lists something at a .01 with 1000 items in hand you would have to be plain stupid to think that the seller didn't expect to sell them all at a penny.
[ edited by celebrityskin on Sep 2, 2001 12:49 AM ]
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gingerbelle1
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posted on September 2, 2001 02:04:08 AM
Hey kckckc-Get a life! Do you really go around and look at auctions and turn people in? I mean if you did run across something really awful I could understand,but to look up violation numbers? Are you a night security guard?(I have a bet going)
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bidsbids
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posted on September 2, 2001 02:15:04 AM
The real issue is that ebay doesn't care about sellers gouging buyers with excessive shipping amounts. The 1 cent ginsu knife set with $7 s/h that comes in a box with $2 postal meter sticker on it.
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darrelll
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posted on September 2, 2001 02:28:11 AM
1 cent plus $1.99 s/h...
The only problem I see is the time it takes to list the item, track it and ship it and only make about $1.50 per item.
I'd hate to get 30 orders for only 1... I'd lose money because of the time it takes fulfilling and shipping the orders and of course the negative feedback from the penny pinchers when the item doesn't arrive in 2 days...
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celebrityskin
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posted on September 2, 2001 08:19:16 AM
Question: At what point to you pay a final value fee at Ebay?
.02?
.10?
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on September 2, 2001 08:22:04 AM
If a seller lists something at a .01 with 1000 items in hand you would have to be plain stupid to think that the seller didn't expect to sell them all at a penny.
Optimistic yes. Stupid no.
ebaY made the rules regarding dutch auctions, not the sellers.
ebaY makes the claim of God knows how many millions of registered users, not the sellers.
Why shouldn't a seller take advantage of the system that ebaY has put together, play by the rules that ebaY has made, and base expectations in regards to the number of bids on a dutch auction according to the number of registered users that ebaY claims to have.
If all 1000 items don't sell for more than a penny, it isn't the seller's fault. Will all 1000 sell for more than 1¢? Not likely. Is it possible? Of course.
How would it look if ebaY told a seller "Yeah, we have umpteen million registered users, but you can't expect to sell 1000 items at more than 1¢ each."? This would reflect poorly on the veracity of ebaY's numbers.
ebaY does business according to what benefits their bottom line. Why shouldn't sellers do the same thing as long as they're within ebaY's rules and the law.
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luvjunk
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posted on September 2, 2001 08:33:35 AM
MrBusinessMan- I agree 100%. I just pointed out (somewhat facetiously) that the originator of this thread is going to list auctions using the same strategy that he turned another seller in for.
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furkidmom
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posted on September 2, 2001 08:53:01 AM
This is so old. I charge a $2.00-$2.50 handling fee on all of my items and do not feel bad in the least doing so. Alot of my items are purched through the mail and these companies feel no pain in charging me a handling charge. If someone wins more then one item at the same time, I will combine shipping and drop down the handling charge per item after the first one. My reasons for doing so are as follows. I pay a hosting company to just host my photos, a flat fee for 75mgs of space. I do not take advantage of any of their other services. I do not feel that everyone that has something to do with my auctions has the right to have their fingers in my profits when I do all the work, and they try to figure out how they can double dip for more then is entitled to them for the services provided. I do not want to and refuse to pay for 2 final value fees, and listing fees, when I can use one service and pay for only one because I am too lazy to find alternatives. I make my own templates, list one by one with no easy lister. I don't pre-list my auctions for launch at a later date because they are not set with that yet. I go out and find these things to sell, taking my time and money to do so. (The car does not run on air, and I have never gotten a free oil change because I am such a "swell gal." ) I clean them up if need be, take photos, write descriptions, tweak them, list and sit back and hope they go. My time is money and I pay for services that are vital to keep me in the game, a no frills enterprise. I double time it in customer service, making alot of trips, sometimes everyday, to get my products out fast, am an anal packer, and always give excellent customer service. It unnerves me when people blanket statement things by saying "It is all in the costs of doing business." Show me a B&M shop that does not cut corners to bring up the profit margin to stay in business. A handling charge is under that heading of "all in the name of doing business" to defray costs rather then starting your item so high, you have to pay more of a listing fee to do so, and people pass you by because of that high opening bid. If I start out a product at $.01 and it sells for that, I still had to do all of the above to get it up for bids in the first place, so it is a no-brainer. Carry on folks. Run your business as you see fit. I have, and it is keeping me out of the bread line quite nicely.
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celebrityskin
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posted on September 2, 2001 09:06:49 AM
"Optimistic yes. Stupid no. "
Oh I'm not saying that they are breaking any Ebay's current rules.
Just that if you really think that a seller expects the bid to go over .01 with a dutch of 1000, starting at a penny... you're misguided.
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NWREBEL
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posted on September 2, 2001 09:31:06 AM
Ebayers make me sick as they think people should sell them products at cost and not make a slight profit on the shipping. Ebay has turned into a cesspool of people who whine if they pay to much which allows the seller to get paid for his time. What I dont get is if these freakin whiners gripe about the terms why buy it in the first place. I feel these type of people should be classified and rated based on how much they whine!
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sadie999
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posted on September 2, 2001 10:19:32 AM
NWREBEL,
I have to agree with the sentiment of your post.
My personal pet peeve: The same folks who will buy a cd from a tv ad, pay $7.95 s/h, and wait 4-6 weeks for delivery, expect eBay sellers to ship at postal cost (because mailers & bubble wrap grow on trees) and expect the item to be shipped 30 seconds after they pay.
In the last month, because of that mentality eBay has become my third choice when trying to sell something. I use another site for almost all my books, and I've started paying rent for space in a b&m.
The whiners did what fee increases at eBay and PayPal didn't. The whiners did what changes in AW didn't.
I still love eBay for the number of looks certain kinds of items will get, and I use it for that. I also have had mostly good experiences with eBay. But there's a percentage of buyers out there who think that they are the only people on the planet. I refuse to let them in any way diminish the fun I have buying and selling.
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yadda36
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posted on September 2, 2001 10:21:42 AM
All I got to say is
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
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reston_ray
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posted on September 2, 2001 11:13:30 AM
Look at the listings for ReturnBuy, a corporation that has hundreds of listings running on any day.
They liquidate merchandise for several major retailers. They start their listing at a very low opening bid and many sell for that amount.
Their s/h fees appear to me to be about 3 to 4 times higher than the actual postage cost and s/h appears to be the one method they consistently use to make money on each sale.
I understand most of the items they list are on consignment so that they do not have an investment in inventory, do not have to recapture item cost from the selling price and can make a profit even if the item sells for $.01 because of the charges packed into the s/h fee.
Why this company is an important example in this discussion is that public records show that eBay has made a multi-million dollar direct investment in this business and is an owner.
My point? If an eBay owned company can do this I guess it's alright for the rest of us.
I'm sure there is a line somewhere that eBay won't let us cross but it's far distant from the actual postage amount.
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icyu
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posted on September 2, 2001 12:04:31 PM
Would anyone here turn in a seller who is adding a paypal or other credit card surcharge?
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sadie999
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posted on September 2, 2001 12:47:42 PM
The only thing I'd ever turn another eBayer in for would be if someone were auctioning off a child.
But I've seen posts where people have turned people in for the PP surcharge.
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