posted on September 9, 2001 01:10:22 PM new
Just received this message 5 hours before the auction ends.... talk about infuriating! My terms of sale clearly indicate that the bidder is responsible for all s/h charges. My charges for U.S. shipments are quoted in the auction, and international bidders are asked to contact me FIRST before bidding if they have any questions. I don't think that I should have to take the #$%#@ time to cancel his bid because HE thinks he can change the terms himself. The nerve of some people! Here is the message sent to me:
Hi,
I´m going to bid on your "WIDGET!"!
I´m calculating that I will also pay a postage for an envelope. But not extra costs for packing etc..!
If you can not agree with this, you can cancel my bid if you want and I will not be sad for that.
As you understand, the bidding will close about 2 hours after midnight, so I will bid now.
posted on September 9, 2001 01:14:56 PM new
I would suggest that you cancel the bid, you have a different culture, and language working against you...seems like the easiest way out of it.
Then an email simply put, the rules of sale were stated...we don't make changes in the middle of an auction. Do not bid if you don't agree with the terms.
This is just saying the way I would handle it for the least overall aggravation! Good luck!
posted on September 9, 2001 01:21:55 PM new
I would cancel the bid and block the bidder from my auctions in the future. The only unfortunate thing is that you won't be able to leave negative feedback if you cancel the bid...
posted on September 9, 2001 01:31:05 PM new
Thanks for the quick replies. I've cancelled the bid and sent out a variation of the e-mail suggested by zilvy (much nicer than what I REALLY wanted to say to this guy!) It really does make you wish you could leave negative feedback in cases like this to help warn other sellers! Thanks again for your help and for letting me vent! Anyone else run into bidders who think they can run your auctions?
posted on September 9, 2001 01:41:26 PM new
Can't say that I've run into anyone yet who has tried to set the terms of my auctions but I don't really sell that much as it is part of a hobby. I'm sure it will happen to me eventually.
Given your particular situation, you probably did the best thing. Given that it was an international bidder, it is difficult to say whether or not a foreign country may view the email that was sent as some sort of document with legal standing in that country. It's possible that if the auction were being run only in that particular country that such a letter may protect the buyer from any excessive handling fees. Don't think it would apply to international purchases, however...
Aside from that, you probably did the right thing, your lucky you caught it as soon as you did. What would have happened if you hadn't checked your email until after your auctions closed?
posted on September 9, 2001 03:03:43 PM new
not really, aside from the occasional buyer who replies to my 'you can pay me either by sending a money order to ... or paypal' email with 'i'll be sending you a check.'
but recently i did have a buyer who responded to my e.o.a with something like:
dear seller,
please remit your name and address to me immediately, so i may process your ... blah, blah, blah.
it put me off a bit, but the transaction was otherwise just fine.
posted on September 9, 2001 03:12:50 PM new
Eauctionmgnt, how much difference would there have been in what he was offering to pay for shipping to Sweden and how much you would have charged?
posted on September 9, 2001 03:24:51 PM new
Roofguy,
I usually charge about a $1.00 handling fee on my international shipping orders. It helps to cover the extra time spent filling out the customs form, calculating the correct postage, etc... Admitedly, it is a very small amount... but this guy made it very clear that he wasn't going to pay any handling charge. Not to mention... from the attitude expressed in his e-mail who knows if he would have been happy paying just the postage to Sweden. Some international bidders have no clue what it costs to send items to them. (although I must say the majority of my international customers are wonderful!) I just don't need to deal with a trouble-maker on a $4.00 item. It's not worth it!
posted on September 9, 2001 03:42:36 PM new
I'd just suggest that this guy was likely burned before, and not just for a buck. He's exhibiting fear. Maybe he's just heard lots of horror stories. Maybe if you went to Mexico you would do the equivalent in a context which insiders would recognize as completely inappropriate.
It would likely have worked to say "The full shipping charge works out to postage plus $1 for international shipments. For Sweden, the comes to $.$$. Feel free to cancel your own bid if that was different than you expected".
posted on September 9, 2001 07:05:39 PM new
Just when you think your problems are over....
My auctions ended at 9:00 EST tonight. I go through the completed auctions and jot down the winning bidders e-mail address in my record. Guess who's name I run accross.... FIVE TIMES?!?! That's right... the same loser! Apparently he neglected to tell me that he bid on more than just the one item he referenced in his e-mail. I'm guessing that because he made the bids BEFORE I blocked them they weren't cancelled. How frustrating! What on earth am I supposed to do now?!?! Should I send off my winning bid notice? Should I file for NPB fees? Should I neg the son of a #$#$? (I'd hate to get five retalitory negs though!) This guy's record doesn't look to promising either. He has a 1 feedback rating (vs. my 1000+) and in the past month has won over 75 auctions valued at over $5000.00 in total sales. I'm getting the feeling he might pull this type of crap a lot! Please help me out! I am totally lost in how to handle this one! Thanks for your comments!
posted on September 9, 2001 08:00:39 PM new
I had a dead beat insist that I lower my stated S/H a week after the auction ended.
When I refused they threatened negative feedback, so I went right than and posted their negative and told them to do what they had to do. They retaliated and than proceed to email and insult me about the terms of my auctions.
I filed the NPB report. They emailed again and demanded I lower the stated S/H. I told them to not contact me again. They reviewed my "about me" page and tried to convience my I was wrong, because I did not ensure their satisfication. I reported them to eBay for harassement and asked them not to contact me again.
This morning I get a email calling me obscene names and telling me once again, I should lower my stated S/H for them. I reported them to eBay again, and to AOL (their ISP) and again restated my terms and told them not to email me again.
posted on September 9, 2001 08:10:12 PM new
That Swedish bidder won five auctions from you? Well, if he doesn't pay, you can get him NARU'd with three NPB/FVF's right? Or does it take three different sellers?
posted on September 9, 2001 08:31:23 PM new
Well, at this point I guess you just send out the EOA's and tell him the cost of shipping as you calculate it. According to everything that is on eBay's template for auction listings, the buyer agrees to abide by the TOS of the seller by bidding on the auction. If he refuses to pay the shipping and handling charges you state and they are reasonable, you are not obligated to complete the transaction. At the point you can go through the hassle of applying for a refund of the final value fees...
I'm guessing that it's going to be an agonizing affair. Make sure you keep track of everything and save all of his and your emails so that you protect yourself. That way if he decides to complain to Safe Harbour you've got the documentation to provide a good defense...
On the other hand, if he only quoted one auction in his original email, then I guess his little email would only apply to that particular auction and not the others...
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 9, 2001 08:34 PM ]
posted on September 10, 2001 02:24:01 AM new
I can see now even more why many Europeans regard Americans as irrational, to say the least. I recently had a long correspondence with a German who explained the general concepts over there of us, and this transaction more than justifies it.
First of all, international customers are as a rule the best customers on earth, and as long as you do not yank their chains you will generally find them to be ideal. Never had a problem with them. And I've sold to many.
The Swede was just trying to make sure he wasnt gonna be ripped off by simply making clear he wasnt going to pay any bogus charges, which is exactly what 'handling' charges are. If you cannot take a minute to fill out a simple customs form you do not belong in this business. He has done you the honor of purchasing multiple items which probably can be boxed together and sent under one customs form. To insist on charging extra at this point seems a little peevish.
TOS or no TOS, the issue here is really Customer Service. If you cannot work with your customer, you need to learn basic marketing psychology.
I sell books. Since they come in different sizes and I have varying boxes for them I chage a flat rate of $2.20. I had a customer assure me that his book could be shipped for $1.30, and even went so far as to pay me with that amount even after I explaied the flat rate concept to him. The solution was simple. I simply wrapped the book in a grocery bag and sent it to him unboxed, and so it qualified for the $1.30 rate. No need for a pissing contest. I was paid and he was happy.
In short, we have no right to treat foreign buyers as lepers irregardless of our abilities to TOS them into oblivion.
This practice drives them away from us at a time we need them most, and so hurts us all.
posted on September 10, 2001 04:58:53 AM new
Well.... On the positive side, he contacted me before I got a chance to e-mail him. On the plus side... I guess it means he does want the items. However, I am still not completely thrilled with how he is asking me to deal with him. I will NOT lie on custom forms and mark his merchandise as a gift!!! And I will quote him a shipping and HANDLING fee as described in my listings to Sweden. It will have to be shipped in a small package as these items will not all fit in an envelope. What are all of your reactions to this letter? Personally, I think I will let him buy the sixth widget that I cancelled the bid on (no one else bid on it anyhow). But, I will explain to him in my EOA that I will not lie on custom forms. Anyhow... here's his letter to me:
Hi,
I´m the high bidder on following items:
1. Widget 1!!! $3.99
2. Widget 2!!! $3.99
3. Widget 3 $2.99
4. Widget 4!!! $2.99
5. Widget 5!!! $4.25
6. Widget 6!!! $3.99
Together: US$ 22.20 + postage to Sweden. What´s your costs to send this to my address in Sweden? How to send the payment to you? I´m registred by PayPal, I can send money to your Bank account or a personal check or maybe other. Most quickly is with PayPal, because it takes about 5 minutes and I can make it from my office. I can make the payment as soon as I knew how to pay!
I´m registred by PayPal, but can also pay to your bank account or a check. Please let me knew.
** Widget 6!!! $3.99, was canselled by you because of an missunderstanding. When I was read your "Terms of Sale" last night, I was not correctly understand everything, so I was sending you a letter. After that letter you was cansel my bid.
But I want that ALL my bids shall be valid and I want to have shipment in one envelope or small package.
It´s problems with the Swedish Customs rules! Please help me and send the lens as a privat gift with a value of US$ It´s important that You are sending the package as a privat person! Is this possible for you?
Shipping Address:
XXX
XXX
XXX
SWEDEN
Best regards
XXX
PS.
This Cancellation was made because of a missunderstanding:
Bid Retraction and Cancellation History
User ID Action / Explanation Date of bid and retraction
xxxxx (1) Cancelled
Explanation:Bidder wrote telling me he would not abide by the terms of the auction
posted on September 10, 2001 08:36:00 AM new
It appears that he was just asking you to combine the items so he wouldn't have to pay the shipping charge for each one sent individually. I really think you read too much into this guy's first e-mail. Try to be patient next time.
posted on September 10, 2001 08:44:58 AM new
The guy is being a little demading, that much is clear.
But since he wants the items work with him -- to a degree. BUT YOU AS SELLER RETAIN CONTROL OF THE DEAL, ALWAYS.
Figure what you estimate will be fair shipping AND HANDLING (Handling is a 100% valid charge) and email him with the total.
Once he pays, ship to him, remain legal and DO NOT COMMIT FRAUD ON THE CUSTOMS FORM. If you can ship in one box, package, then do so -- easier for everyone in the long run.
Perhaps his English is bad and you've got a mix of that with fraud request -- but one doesn't mean the other is obnoxious as well. Do not post feedback for him until after he feedback's you -- in this case only. When the customs form is marked merchandise, he may neg you out of spite. Don't want that.
I too have only had good experiences with internation customers. And they can bad mouth Americans all they like -- if they don't like us, don't buy from us. But there is NO REASON to alter your TOS at the customer's demands. Be professional and stand by your TOS, making changes that YOU SEE FIT to please the customer.
"Bending over backwards for the customer is much better than bending over for the customer."
posted on September 10, 2001 11:57:53 AM new
This buyer has just given you your out on the transactions. He asked you to commit fraud. I believe that you are free to cancel all auctions. Remember, its your butt on the line if you get caught by customs.
posted on September 10, 2001 02:21:41 PM new
Thanks again for all your responses... here's my reply to him. I tried to be as nice as possible (yet firm on charging handling and declaring the customs forms correctly). We'll see how this works out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Here's my response:
XXXX,
Congratulations! You were the high bidder for the widget at $2.99, the widget at $2.99, the widget at $4.25, the widget at $3.99 and the widget at $3.99. I appolgize if I misunderstood your original e-mail and I will gladly sell you the widget at your original bid of $3.99. The combined s/h for these six items to Sweden is $10.00 for USPS Economy (Surface) Letter Post. This brings your total balance due to $32.20. Please send payment by either check or money order (sorry Paypal & Bank transfers are not accepted) in US funds to the following address:
XXX XXXXXXX
XXX XXXXX XXXXXX
XXXX XX
XXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
XXX
Please do not send any mail that requires a signature. In accordance with US postal regulations, I will need to label the customs form as merchandise with a value of $22.20. I look forward to receiving your payment and will ship your items promptly when it arrives. It is a pleasure doing business with you!
posted on September 10, 2001 04:35:10 PM new
Thanks amy! I always try to keep my letters congenial and professional. Haven't heard back from yet... but it's still early for a response. I'm still not feeling too good about this transaction, though. I just re-checked his feedback... and it's gone down from (1) to (0). He just got a negative feedback from a German seller. The feedback translates roughly to:
No receipt of payment, no acknowledgement
He's only been a registered user since August 13th... and as I said earlier... has bid on over 75 items valued at over $5000.00 U.S. Still... nothing to do now but wait for a reply. Thanks again for all your help. I'll let you know how it turns out!
posted on September 10, 2001 07:39:42 PM new
My main reason for not shipping Internationally is I always manage to get the overbearing know-it-all its my way or no way you'll do it this way or else bidders.Some have been very nice, but I've had way too many of the other type.The Canadians are fine, I've had good luck with them.One of the worst I had was from the Netherlands who claimed I could send his package for the same postage in the auction,then sent the bid amount only and informed me that was all he was paying.When I sent his payment back he then harrassed me by e-mail even after blocking his e-mails,he just kept using a different e-mail address.I have always put in my auctions I do not ship Internationally,sometimes they bid anyhow.
posted on September 11, 2001 03:19:02 AM new
Even though I state in my auctions "US only" I just had a buyer from the Netherlands use BIN on a widget of mine. She emailed me right away and told me what she had done and that if I chose not to sell to her she understood. So of course I said I'd be glad to send it to you. After I went to the PO I emailed her a Billpoint invoice and she paid immediately. What more could I ask for? She also emailed me and told me how much she appreciated me making an exception for her. I don't sell internationally because most of my items are not high dollar and it's just not worth my time. Of course, with a buyer like this I wouldn't mind doing it all the time. BUT they are not all like this one. Like the buyer from the US who sent me an entire page of instructions on how to handle her item.
posted on September 11, 2001 04:22:01 AM new
barbkeith -- the only downside to these "shoot first, ask later" bidders is that they ended your auction, causing you to have to go through the hassle to relist, etc. UNLESS you agree to deal with them.
If you hadn't been willing, this would have been a PITA!
posted on September 17, 2001 07:35:59 AM new
Sigh.... this guy just doesn't read my e-mails! There's definately a language barrier here! After waiting seven days, here is response to my last e-mail:
Hi xxxx
I want to pay you quickly!
I was visit my Bank to find some way to pay you, but they told me that if I´m sending you a check it will cost a lot for you when you shall get money from it.
Then I contacted PayPal and they say that it will cost very little if I´m sending money through them.
Therfore I´m asking you if I can Pay through PayPal. I was using PayPal for other payments to USA / Canada and that sellers recived the money in some minutes only.
Please answer me as soon as you can.
Yours faithfully
xxxx xxxxxxxx
Obviously he didn't pay any attention to the fact that I already said I do not accept Paypal payments! (this is his second time asking now!) I think I will send him a response back restating this, as well as suggesting he consider Bidpay.com. I have no idea why his bank is telling him it would cost ME money to have a check sent to me. I'm certainly not going to accept any funds that are going to cost me money! Anhow... just thought I'd keep you all posted on developments.... Let me know if you have any further advice.
posted on September 17, 2001 08:37:30 AM newI have no idea why his bank is telling him it would cost ME money to have a check sent to me.
That's probably because you've not had the experience of a $30 charge to deposit a check. The guy's bank no doubt did you a favor. A different bank could have given him a check, written against a US bank so no problem, but they would have charged the buyer to do so.
The guy is struggling with international finance, but he doesn't seem badly motivated.
