posted on September 11, 2001 07:50:30 PM
Nothing to do with eBay and I'm sorry but~ Raising gas prices in a state of emergency such as we have seen today is against state laws. The consumer protection agency has asked for our help in prosecuting these bottom feeders. Please call 1-800-337-3928 with the name and address of the stores. It's the least we can do.
posted on September 12, 2001 06:53:53 AM
Here in Detroit a gas station ran out of gas and about an hour latter got a truck in to refill them. When they reopened they jacked it to $5 a gallon. Channel 4 sent a news crew and the black lady with the mic shoved it in the managers face and asked what the hell was he thinking to take advantage of tragedy to rip people off? Made real clear she thought he had crawled out from under a rock. In fact looked about ready to ram that mic up his rear porch. Have to say they trotted out and changed the sign back to the normal price. I'd like to see that lady leading a heavy weapons platoon.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:20:19 AM
On a political channel, I saw someone from Pittsburgh say that she had to go to the grocery late yesterday, and there were so people at the grocery buying in mass, she said it was like when Pittsburgh was expecting a snow storm.
I think people are afraid, because they don't know what is going to happen next, it seems we are at war with someone, but it isn't clear cut such as it was in W.W.II. At the moment, I think most of us are as "mad as hell," but don't know who to shoot!
I personally think gas or grocery gougers should simply have their businesses shut down. There is no excuse for such actions in the face of such tragedy -
I for one am glad to see E-Bay is not allowing auctions for WWT items (although I believe Public Relations had as much to do with E-Bay closing such auctions, as did E-Bay’s caring --- can you imagine the bad lash if eBay allowed such and it was reported on the news????)- and those who try to post such should have their membership forever revoked from E-Bay as they are as sick as the gas and grocery gougers.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:44:43 AM
Nope. You have to charge a fair price AND be able to replenish your supply.
You don't base the price on what you paid for the first batch. You base it on what you will have to pay for the second batch.
Hard to understand for us one-off ebayers, but that's just business.
If these idiots had not attacked us and the price went up $6 per barrel, you'd see the same prices.
Gouging is taking advantage of the situation by not charging a fair and reasonable price. But even then, the free market system will take care of those people -- laws don't need to.
If I have a product, I can sell for whatever I want. But if my competition is selling it cheaper, then I won't sell any. See? And if I make a deal with my competition to keep prices high, then that is COLLUSION and an unfair business practice and is illegal.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:47:56 AM
they go by spot price and when that price jumps ,it is bad for refiners and retail stations,once their inventory is depleted,they have to replace it with more expensive stock which they may not be able to pass on fully,especially if prices drop back to normal in near future.
but 5.00 gallon in less than a day is price gourging unless the station operator can justify it .
posted on September 12, 2001 08:12:21 AM
Please keep in mind that when you see a price of oil -per barrel- that it is referring to crude oil, not the stuff you put in your car. The cost of raw crude is related to the retail price of fuel, but it is only one component in the pricing. You're also paying for refining, transporting it to your location, and the cost of the retailer. It's only the price of crude that went up yesterday, the rest of it should stay the same.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:23:49 AM
But according to peiklk in another thread, what it costs to get something TO YOU has NOTHING to do with the price!
Maybe the gas-gougers were just taking a page from a lot of eBay sellers and charging "actual" at the pump!
But seriously: ANYone taking advantage at this point of our country's emergency needs to be severely punished!
posted on September 12, 2001 08:27:46 AM
You might note that many of the nations of OPEC (the ones that have been gouging us with the oil recently) are the same nations that we might suspect would be harboring those criminals.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:52:05 AM
thepackratsattic still doesn't get it.
I NEVER said anything of the sort. If he can proof I did, then I will admit to it -- but since I didn't he cannot.
Regardless, this has been clearly explained to him/her in the other thread and doesn't need to be rehashed here.
But, that being said. If it costs them $0.25 per gallon to transport the oil from source to pump, then that would be fixed no matter what the price is for the gas itself. Once again, thepackratsattic has proven MY point and not his.
petertdavis on the other hand, is correct. It wouldn't be a straight % translated across the board as there would be some fixed costs that wouldn't change.
Nevertheless, just because there is an increase DOES NOT MEAN IT IS GOUGING.
posted on September 12, 2001 09:21:21 AM
peiklk: The only thing that was "clearly" explained yesterday by you was that in YOUR opinion, shipping & handling was NOT a part of the end cost of an item.....and yet today, you are saying it is and using the term "fixed" (AKA: ACTUAL). I am just trying to get you to see that business people DO see s&h as a "cost of aquisition" and therefore; according to sound accounting practices; s&h becomes a part of the ACTUAL FINAL COST as a REAL dollar amount on the item purchased!
AS far as your reasoning that gas retailers were simply raising prices to cover the "anticipated" increase of new shipments...that is pure bull! $2.49 to $5.00 a gallon is by NO means covering any such thing. It is blatantly ripping off the
consumer the same as plywood suddenly jumping by 300% when a hurrincane threatens a coastline!
If you carry thru that unsound reasoning, maybe all the less-than-scrupulous sellers can immediately start charging the next anticipated postage increase and still claiming that it is "actual" since it will cost them more to "replace the stamps they used"!
posted on September 12, 2001 09:26:52 AM
Denver news reported last night gas prices as high as $5.50 in Aspen and cars in line for hours. They came back later to report that they are not trying to create a gas problem but only reporting the news that price by morning may be at $4 and up.
In my little corner of the world, Monday I paid $1.65 for gas. Wednesday morning gas is $1.61. So goes to show you can not always believe what the reporters report.
Last gas crisis, BP had a brochure that said exactly what you said viv-a-vis cost should reflect REPLACEMENT cost, ie, the cost of what the NEXT load will cost you, not what the current load cost.
Based on that, Chevrolet dealers should RAISE the price of cars at the end of the model year, because invariably, the next year's models will cost more. Aren't they stupid, all those Chevy dealers, giving discounts on all those year end leftovers!
Your rationale is hogwash. The gas in a station's tanks is already there at fixed price - sell it at a fair profit and when it's gone, price the next load according to what it cost you. I have noticed that if the price of crude goes up, the price of gas follows within 24 hours, this despite the fact that the higher priced crude wont hit the US for 30-40 days, 50- 60 days to your local pumps. If the price of crude declines, the price takes weeks to decline. Care to explain that with your Econ 001 theory? I will, it's gouging.
Several gougers in this area had windows busted out last night, I expect more will tonight. Personally, I just went and parked at their pumps for 15 minutes and explained how gas was 30 cents cheaper down the street to anyone who came in.
posted on September 12, 2001 09:59:18 AM
donrob2: THANK YOU!! But get prepared for some of the most interesting economics lessons you will ever hear from peiklk.
My college econ professor was one of Nixon's economic advisors, and I have been taught all sorts of "new & innovative" ways to look at pricing and gouging and the word "actual" in the past 24 hours via Econ 101 by peiklk.
If nothing else it is good diversion!! Just remember to laugh occassionally!
posted on September 12, 2001 10:00:21 AM
I am from Tulsa, now known as Gas Pump Rage Capitol of the World. Here we are used to enjoying about the lowest price of any place in the US.
But lately there have been a number of mysterious price fluctuations here, that didn't seem to follow the normal rules of supply and demand, so I think people where a little uptight to begin with.
Then yesterday morning the rumor started to spread that all the refineries had been shut down and the price would soon rise to $4-$5.
I personally witnessed the huge lines that had developed at every service station and convienience store in town. Traffic was congested in many intersections due to the gas pump lines extending out of parking lots.
Local news reported that the Police had been called to several locations to break up fights that had interrupted while people waited in line.
I just can't comprehend how such a ridiculous rumor could begin in the first place, and how many people were willing to accept it. Perhaps it is just the strain of living in uncertain times, but the thought of people fighting over positions at the gas lines, in light of what had happened elsewhere, sickens me. I am now truly embarrassed to be from Tulsa, OK.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:09:57 AM
Excuse me...but read what I've said before listening to thepacksratattic who does not.
I've said $5.00 is bad! (Quote: $5 is bad. Price increase of 25-30% is not GOUGING.)
I said a 25% increase or so is NOT gouging because it isn't. $2.49 - $5.00 is about 100% increase. BIG difference than 25%.
As for thepackratsattic, he/she STILL states things that I did not say. So please check facts before believing him/her.
For the record, I only pointed out that a fair shipping/handling fee is NEVER expressed as a % of the final cost of the item (as tpra claims it is) -- a fair shipping/handling is not related to the final cost of the item. Clearly when we discuss final cost in regards to an ebay auction, this is the final bid price.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:57:48 AM
With investment beliefs like that, I hope you don't have money in the stock market!
So according to your theory, you could turn around and sell the same widget for $14.00 and you would have realized a 40% profit?
(i must have slept thru THAT week of econ!)
I think eBay could qualify as many things: retail; wholesale; yard sale; estate clearing; and even at times....an auction!
But whatever hybrid name you attach to ANY venue, the FACT remains that the invested COST of any good(s) includes s&H.....this matters not whether it is for a personal collection, resale, or use as a chew toy for the puppy!
(edited cause my mind wandered....if you see it, send it home!)
[ edited by thepackratsattic on Sep 12, 2001 12:02 PM ]
posted on September 12, 2001 12:00:58 PM
The mayor of Cleveland Ohio started sending police out to shut down the gas stations under their jurisdiction that were charging $4.00 per gallon after receiving numerous angry phone calls from residents about it. I saw it on a live broadcast at noon today.
Here in Elyria, I drove by the gas station on my corner and the price was as usual, $1.63.
posted on September 12, 2001 12:03:17 PM
BJGrolle: Fine. Probably a reactionary idea, but each city should do what they think is best. If only one or two sell at ridiculous prices, no one will buy from them and they won't keep their prices high for long!
I though I would hold off for a little while before I posted to see what people think about the gas situation.
Now, let me explain how gas prices at the pumps really work:
peiklk, brought truth to this post:
The price for barrels of oil DID go up from $26 to $32 per barrel.
What does this mean for the distributor or gas stations? This means a price increase. Prices at the pump are directly related to the oil trading during the day. Oil goes up and down daily, however you don't always see a day to day change at gas stations unless there is a big change.
donrob2 pointed out:
I have noticed that if the price of crude goes up, the price of gas follows within 24 hours, this despite the fact that the higher priced crude wont hit the US for 30-40 days, 50- 60 days to your local pumps.
This statement is wrong. The oil trading ended higher, and directly affects distributors. They buy the gas at the end of the day trading. Many distributors also have gas stations. Thus, they change thier prices to the cost of the product.
Here is an example. Say the gas costs $1.10, the retailer might mark up the gas to about $1.15 to $1.25 depending on where you are located and competition in the area. If the cost goes up $.25 at the end of the day, the gas station might raise prices $.25 to $1.40 to $1.50. If the price goes down, many people want to sell gas cheaper to get more customers until all the stores are about the same price again.
This is how most major stores operate. I am not talking about the mom & pop stores that only sell about 1k to 5k gallons per month. I am talking about distributor stores and company stores. Many people that have single stores will set thier price with the major stores to stay with the current prices.
posted on September 12, 2001 12:09:27 PM
I believe they said that there were about 30 stations identified as charging these outrageous prices in the Cleveland area.
posted on September 12, 2001 12:13:28 PM
ok peiklk.....maybe (just maybe) we both missed something the past two days:
What I purchase off of eBay, it is for stock in my B&M store! I am currently not reselling items on eBay, and therefore I am perfectly correct in factoring in the cost of s&h to arrive at an actual cost for my inventory that I have in my RL shop.
You do have to agree however, that if you sold the same widget for $14 to your next door neighbor (no shipping fees), that there is NOT a 40% profit as you were claiming, but rather a $1 LOSS on the deal...which means the ORIGINAL inventory-based cost was indeed $15.
posted on September 12, 2001 12:15:49 PM
* * * Maybe some good will come out of this if it gets Americans out of their SUVs and trucks getting 8-10 mpg and into something less selfish and more fuel efficient.
Gas SHOULD cost $3-4/gallon, as it does in much of the world. The extra $1-2/gal could be a Federal tax spent on public transportation, defense, and anti-terrorism.
posted on September 12, 2001 12:19:05 PM
I'm sorry, but a $1 loss is quite small compared to what a great many lost yesterday, as well as the sense of peace we've all had shattered.
I thought this thread was about gas gouging, not another (meaningless, for now anyway) shipping and handling thread. Please have the decency to stop arguing about it already.
