posted on September 12, 2001 08:59:35 AM
Read the NY Times this morning as well as the local paper and did not find one word that details the Jihad and why they hate us. Tom Clancy's novels might be a good place to learn the background on this enemy.
posted on September 12, 2001 03:02:38 PM
This was not a 'Moslemic Jihad'. I was hoping that someone more familiar with Islam would take this one, but since no one did I have to speak up.
Most of those who follow the faith believe in a peaceful resolution and have a great respect for human life. They do not believe in harming innocents any more than Christians do. The radicals are an entirely different breed.
A group of radical terrorists who are hiding behind the name of religion do not reflect the entire religion, nor do they reflect an entire race. You have radicals to deal with in all religions (look at the IRA). The radicals believe that since we protect Israel, we are also their enemy and the cause of their oppression. Bin-laden, IMHO, is a power-hungry, spoiled child, tossed from his own country. He is not doing his acts of terror for any religious purpose - just for his own twisted sense of right and wrong. If he truly believed in what he preached, why wasn't he one of the suicide bombers - shouldn't he have received the glory of killing himself for his beliefs and the rewards he has convinced others that will be theirs in the afterlife? He is a cowardly manipulator that has brainwashed many into being his pawns while he sits back in relative comfort.
The cause of this problem is not the religion - it is the radicals and they should be ground out as quickly as possible.
(Sorry - I just hate racism or bigotry in any form - and I don't like the actions of a few to be assumed to be the mindset of many!)
posted on September 12, 2001 03:43:42 PM
There are many "Christian" (and I use that term loosely) who believe they are doing God's work by bombing family practice clinics and killing physicians.
Every faith is going to have the fanatics. However, if Afganistan is offering a safe haven for terrorists, then they are to blame for the innocent lives lost yesterday.
posted on September 12, 2001 04:30:52 PM
I don't disagree with that - I think they should have turned him over when we requested him prior to all this happening. The latest I heard I heard was that the Taliban had asked us not to bomb them....simple choice - then turn over Bin-laden.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:14:43 PM
Bin Laden went to Afganistan to fight against the soviet union. When that revolution was finished, he returned to saudi arabia and saw the U.S. in his Holy Land. His hate for the soviets invading his islamic brothers was replaced by his hate for the US for invading his home and holy land.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:28:01 PM
We have finally had an incident which has galvanized us to finally solve this problem. We will burn the belly out of this beast.
There is a difference now. We as a people have finally realized that you cannot deal with large masses of incredibly ignorant people who seek to make the world a secular paradise of their own design against the wishes of most of the population.
The answer is to pursue these animals to the fullest degree possible AND to declare ANYONE who harbors them as achieving the same level of guilt deserving the same level of punishment. Our leaders have known this, but were left with a population undecided with doubt. Today we have signed the check, and the people who laughingly prod the tiger through the bars with the sharp stick will be truly amazed at the sharpness of the teeth.
Already some of these terrorists realize this, as they offer condolences through crocodile tears. They know the list contains their names.
Snakebait's comments remind me of an argument I had at the beginning of the Gulf War. I was getting coffee at a "quickmart" when the war started. The palestinians running the place looked at the tv and said it would be very terrible with many deaths on both sides. I simply replied that if they thought the ability to blow up a busload of Israeli women & children meant that they thought they could take on the US Army, then they would be taught many new and interesting ways to join Allah. If we thought for a second there was a chance for Pakistan to launch a nuclear device, we would erase Pakistan's ability to make them.
The Israelis faced this problem with the Iraq nuclear "power plant".
i went back there every night, it was next to my store. I never had them prepare anything for me though! Besides, being here and collecting 75 cents for a cup of coffee seemed preferable to the motherland.
posted on September 13, 2001 12:03:01 AM
DeSquirrel,
The problem is that some of these states *already* have nukes. Not quite the same as bombing a large fuel preprocessing plant.
A nuke is not large. About the size of a television set. Easily smuggled.
And then of course there are chemical and biologicals. Very easy to make and difficult to trace.
All thats needed is a government to come up with a lab to make them. And a reason to. I simply advise not supplying that reason.
I am neither defending nor maligning the Arabs. I am simply trying to put their actions in perspective.
Bombing people into submission does not always work. It may LOOK like it worked in the Gulf War, and Kosovo, but these are poor examples. It did not work in VietNam, and it certainly will not work in the terrain of Afghanistan, where the Russians already tried that tactic.
posted on September 13, 2001 12:24:22 AM
Snakebait
Now you've hit it!!! We used Vietnam as a learning experience. Vietnam was a lost cause because by giving people wounded American bodies with their cornflakes caused them to lose their resolve. If you noticed, in every military action since then, the military has not allowed newsman in the middle of the action. We were so afraid to be shown as the big bully we had our troops fight with a hand tied behind their backs, and many of the died for it. Our last actions have shown the military runs the fighting and is prepared to apply massive force quickly against our enemies to preserve AMERICAN lives. You can rest assured if we find Pakistan culpable for something we won't blow up one of their air bases and call it quits. In every action or war Americans have ever fought, there have been people like you that predict dire consequences and prefer to "extend a hand" to the enemy. Yet history shows there can never be peace by exceeding to the slightest demands of those who threaten world peace. Any such offering has only lead to more demands.
I believe the American people now regretfully understand this, and the coming year will astound these criminals.
posted on September 13, 2001 06:11:04 AM
I do believe the phrase is "Islamic Jiihad" which is a "Holy War". It is my understanding that the Islamic fundamentalists regard those of ALL OTHER FAITHS to be infidels at the least and devils at worst. The extermination of their enemies [all others] is their goal.
Moderators: Though I did not see the posts.....be carefull just how "PC" you get... it is a fine line you are walking.
posted on September 13, 2001 06:51:42 AM
I'm sick and tired of hearing how powerful these loser cowards are...
We are America dammit! and we can CRUSH any Arab counrty on the face of the planet that we wish to.
PERIOD!
It's time that we stopped coddling these far eastern maniac cowards who think that we "need" to negotiate with them.
If we were a counrty that beleived like they do, which fortunately for them we don't, then we have the technology, power and resources to TAKE their oil, land, and any other damn thing we want.
If they think that we cannot "decisively" destroy them, then they are more "sick" then previously thought.
We could take them out stat!
I was on the soil of Saudi Arabia, and saw the cowardous military of Iraq in the hundreds of thousands "crying" and "begging" for mercy at the hands of a "MINOR" US skirmish firsthand.
Make no mistake foreigners, we are AMERICA, and we WILL NOT BE DEFEATED either by terrorism, or war.
posted on September 13, 2001 08:33:02 AM
Thanks Pocono! I was trying to be a little reserved to save the hand wringers, but I think we are now in the position where the leadership knows that the people of this country want power used massively. These towel heads think they are at the zenith of their stone-age culture and in reality have made the biggest mistake any people in recorded history have made.
You say that our talk scares you, but how about this?
People need not be afraid of "nukes" hitting us, that isn't really the "big threat"
Imagine if those jackers had even ONE QUARTER OUNCE of Anthrax or any other biological weapon with them.
The dust of that buiilding alone would have taken out the entire city, and then killed hundreds of thousands more in it's long term effects.
Maybe some of you who "don't want war" need to take a minute, reflect, and decide if you want to sit back and wait for another inevitable tragedy, or do you want to prevent it.
No one wants war, but it's time we stopped being the "nice" country, and started being the "strong" country.
We need to show the world that we are not weak, and that this kind of action will not be tolorated, and that the U.S. will respond fast, furious, and with no remorse to ANYONE, ANYWHERE that helps, harbors, or aids these cowards.
posted on September 13, 2001 10:14:18 AM
I find I have to agree with Pocono.
We have talked enough with those people, it is time to quit talking and show some strength.
You all know yourself how they can stretch "negotiations & peace talks" out for MOMTHS ON END while all the time continueing to do their dirty deeds in the background.
I think we need a policy in place to allow us to go and ASSASINATE the real culprits. Not just 1 or 2 but a whole bunch of those hiding cowards!
Not to sound morbid....but, I too wondered why there wasn't some kinda of "chemical" destruction along with what they did?
I mean if there gonna doit then why not REALLY do it?
You wait and see, it will me months of talks before we see anything done. By then, life in the USA will be back to normal and even relaxing a bit in our security.
We had hightened security when the WTC was hit before and it seems like it took years to get that mess resolved. And see how relaxed we became.
Unless we declare a full out war with someone(country) not much will change.
posted on September 13, 2001 10:33:07 AM
I guess everyone now regrets the hamstringing of the CIA by Congress after Nixon. "You can't do that! It's not nice!" This might have all been avoided if someone put a couple of 22s in Bin Laden's head 5 years ago. We simply have to acknowledge that we do not live in a world that plays by any of the rules we dream up.
Next someone is going to say nothing we do will make any difference, they are suicide bombers. This is why the Israelis bulldoze houses. You may choose to die, but what about your wife, baby, or the ants in your backyard???
posted on September 13, 2001 10:59:00 AMI do believe the phrase is "Islamic Jiihad" which is a "Holy War".
Correction. Jihad doesn't mean War. It means Striving. It's UNHOLY to even instigate war, excluding certain circumstances.
Also, blame the media (or Israel Goverment and their "PR" folks) for making the word "Suicide (Insert choice words here)" a popular phrase. Seems that if you die for Allah, you go to heaven. Suicide, however, means you go to Hell. Either it's a play on words, or it's a very "litteral" translation of the Koran.
posted on September 13, 2001 11:02:40 AM
I'm not saying we shouldn't go after who's responsible-we should go after them and anyone even remotely connected.
What's scary is this wholesale talk of "crush"ing arabic countries. Change a few words like western for Arabic in your post, Pocono, and you sound just like the terrorists.
Also this statement, "If we were a counrty that beleived like they do, which fortunately for them we don't,"
seems to be an oxymoron with this which followed:
"then we have the technology, power and resources to TAKE their oil, land, and any other damn thing we want."
Isn't that basically thinking like them? Like I said, I want to get those responsible, but we have to do it in a far more intelligent manner than making craters of countries. Although I do admit I wouldn't miss Afghanistan a whole lot. But is that really a solution? Blowing everyone up? It doesn't work-Saddam is still there.
posted on September 13, 2001 11:16:41 AM
Really???
i thought Saddam was still there because Colin Powell convinced Bush that the wholesale slaughter on the road from Kuwait to Iraq was making us look bad in the eyes of the world.
So the the idea that "slaughter doesn't work" is in reallity "insufficient slaughter is not effective".
posted on September 13, 2001 11:56:23 AM
Terrorism DEMANDS revenge, and retribution.
I sound like a terrorist? GREAT! I'm fine with that in this situation.
I would LOVE to terrorize the ones who ordered this mass murder and destruction.
I will state right here and now that I would GLADLY be the 1st in line to take a bullet trying to RID the world of these lowlife scumbags that are responsible for this horror.
I am an American, and I would lay my life down in a second to avenge my fallen fellow Americans, as I am sure most other Americans would as well.
(present company not included of course)
But MORE then that, to assure that this will NEVER happen to us again.
If you send one of ours to the hospitol,
We'll send one of yours to the morge.
Kill one of ours, We'll kill a hundred of yours.
That MUST be the lesson taught right here, and right now, whether you agree or not.
Me? a terrorist?, NO...
I'm just an American who loves my country, and my freedom, and I REFUSE to live my life in fear of the cowards who must brainwash other to do what they are too chickensh*t to do themselves.
Bin Lauden and the others like him would get their teeth kicked in by ANY American, and he knows it.
He runs, and he hides just like the coward that he is.
Give me just 1/2 second with him, and I'll rid the world of that cockroach forever.
posted on September 13, 2001 12:35:37 PM
The present political system has the means to destroy their enemies but not the will.
When they started talking about bringing in allies from nato to spread the guilt around I immediatly knew that no serious damage would be done. They will hit some military targets and remove some power stations and water treatment plants and cause the masses of the population to hate us more than even before.
Nobody has the guts to hurt them so bad that they drop their voice to wispers when they speak of it for a hundred years.
Perhaps when they destroy the entire city of New York with a nuke or biological weapons the hand wringing old women will get upset enough to fight.
