posted on October 21, 2001 09:43:31 AM
Complaint : NEVER SENT MERCH. RIPPED OFF MY MONEY. VERY VERY CROOKED. THIEF!
Follow-up : Never buy anything from this person"THIEF", Gives ebay a blackeye!
Just checked my feedback and was shocked to find this complaint. Both complaint and follow up dated October 20th. (Thought the follow-up was just that and not just another 45 characters of slander.)
The Auction ended September 9th and WBN was sent out via AW. Payment was received in the form of cash in an envelope, on October 5, but as we were out of town on business the following week, the item was not shipped until October 16. This is 11 days, admitedly a little slow, but not a life time. (We both buy and sell frequently on Ebay and many times have waited weeks and months for items to arrive)
This "person" (feeback rating of 38)made no attempt to contact us regarding the transaction, but instead decided to smear our name.
We have not left feedback as we are having a hard time compiling a sentence that does not contain any of George Carlin's famouse seven dirty words.
What do we do?
The word "Thief" was used twice and we consider this a libelous statement.
Do we have any recourse via Ebay?
Any or all comments posted would be welcome.
NOTE:
Just received E-Mail from this person that said
"I have your address, You should have known better you thief"
I consider this a very hostile threat, and am concerned, would you be?
posted on October 21, 2001 10:00:41 AM
Response:
Pmt rec'd 10/5;out of town;item shipped 10/16; sorry for delay!
IMO, Don't leave them any feedback.....since they haven't advised of receipt of the merchandise, you have no way of knowing whether it arrived in good condition and the transaction being completed...
If I ran the two profiles on Vrane, I would see exactly what happend and who was more credible...
I love George Carlin, just not in feedback...
Pat
UBB flub
[ edited by camachinist on Oct 21, 2001 10:01 AM ]
posted on October 21, 2001 10:04:16 AM
The only recourse you have is to leave feedback or respond to their feedback clearly and to-the-point.
eBay will not remove feedback for someone calling you a "thief".
Not much else you can do. Think about how you will word it before you leave it. Make the space they give you count, and the feedback will seem pointless.
Oh yeah, and take this as a learning experience - if you have payments pending, and are planning to leave town, either:
1. Have someone ship your items for you.
2. E-mail all your pending sales to let them know.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:06:16 AM
Another seller e-mailed me last year because we were both dealing with the same deadbeat bidder and she warned me that if I negged I would receive a "thief" comment similar to the one that you got as the bidder had left it for three others.
She complained to ebay several times and did get the comment removed. The other two sellers had the comment left on their feedback so either they didn't complain to ebay or they weren't as lucky.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:06:31 AM
Slander is oral, libel is written. I think you would have to "prove" that your reputation was damaged in order to win a judgement.
How'd they leave a follow-up comment, did you respond to the first comment they left? Or is this something new with eBay?
posted on October 21, 2001 10:11:26 AM
did you email the buyer that you were going out of town for 2 weeks? if not, I would have negged you too. I get upset if an item i have paid for is not shipped on a timely basis, not when the seller gets around to it
if sellers know they are going to be out of town, they should stop selling long enough before that shipping of items is not affected.
in this case, the buyer too deserves a neg or at least a neutral. payment should also be made on a timely basis, not 3 weeks after the auction.
how about
"PAYMENT RECEIVED IN 3 WEEKS, ITEM SHIPPED IN 5, SEEMS FAIR TO ME
posted on October 21, 2001 10:18:58 AM
libel-a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression.....per meriam webster
in their eyes the comments made were true, thus making it a just statement.....
you are pi**ing in the wind if you try to get that removed. ebay won't remove that type FB.........
11 dasy to mail a cash payment is tooooooo long. i travel every week and take my items with me that need shipping that week. now i am driving not flying so that does make a difference
why was thE item not mailed on sat. the 6th?
you are to blame, you could have emailed the buyer telling them there would be a delay....if you sell you know how crazy buyers are getting , you should have gone the extra mile to let them know what was going on.........
take your neg and move on....if the rest of your FB is good it will not hurt you, if you do this type of thing frequently then you got what was needed to warn others...
You said you received the buyer's payment on 10/5 even though the auction ended nearly a month prior....did you note the postmark on their envelope?
If payment was sent that late (timely postmark to receipt), then I agree with rarrifle that appropriate payment feedback should be left, depending on your TOS, but I still would wait to see if you can confirm receipt of the item...
posted on October 21, 2001 11:36:50 AMyou are to blame, you could have emailed the buyer telling them there would be a delay....if you sell you know how crazy buyers are getting , you should have gone the extra mile to let them know what was going on......... take your neg and move on....if the rest of your FB is good it will not hurt you, if you do this type of thing frequently then you got what was needed to warn others
This bidder takes nearly a month to pay and the seller is at fault? I personally do not notify late payers of my vacation schedule. The bidder took a long time time to pay and she expects the world.
posted on October 21, 2001 02:01:20 PM
This all could have been prevented if Sellers and buyers would just monitor there auction during and after the sale....Why would a Seller have Actions up and then leave town for a week without clearing up your end of auctions....Bad business....Just leads to problems....
posted on October 21, 2001 02:01:28 PM
ebay will not remove that feedback just because it contains the word "thief". According to their policy, "The feedback contains profane or vulgar language, or adult material. Inflammatory language, such as fraud, liar, cheater, scam artist, con man" etc. is strongly discouraged but will not be removed." You might want to read up on ebay's feedback removal policies here:
OTOH you deserved the negative for not shipping until 11 days after you received a cash payment, business trip or not. You could have informed your bidder that the payment was received and that you would be out of town or you could have shipped on your way to your destination. There is no excuse for withholding the shipment, especially when the bidder trusted you enough to send you cash. I'm sure that came in handy on your trip.
As far as his not sending the payment immediately, did you ever think that maybe the postal service was a little slow around 9/11? He won on 9/9. What was the postmark? You never said, only said it wasn't received til the 5th.
You can send his last email regarding the perceived threat to safeharbor and to his ISP. He probably still doesn't have his item either. Hope you insured it in case you have to refund.
Edited to add that just because he has a 38 fb, that's no reason to think he's not being honest. I'm sure you remember those days of low feedback.
[ edited by jmho2 on Oct 21, 2001 02:06 PM ]
posted on October 21, 2001 03:00:13 PM
I would leave:
EOA 9/9; Pmt Recd 10/5; Item Shipped 10/16.
Why would a Seller have Actions up and then leave town for a week without clearing up your end of auctions....Bad business....Just leads to problems....
Excuse me but look at the time line again. The buyer was most likely WELL overdue even the most lenient of payment deadlines.
Who knew if the buyer was ever even going to pay after almost a month? I don't believe a seller has to sit around waiting forever for a buyer to make up their mind when they are going to pay, then expect the seller to be sitting there 24/7 to respond to them.
I agree, that rayneman, if he was in town when the payment arrived, should have shipped before he left. And if he also could have helped head off some of this by letting the buyer know the payment had been received & the item shipped.
But if I give a 2 week deadline on payment, then am out of town on the 4th week when the buyer finally gets around to paying, I don't feel ANY obligation to have informed them in advance of being away.
posted on October 21, 2001 03:20:00 PM
Please leave that person appropriate feedback.Other sellers need to know and should know. This just happened to me too. I wish I had seen the kind of person she was on her feedback before auction close. I would have been able to cancel her bid and avoid the horrible emails and the mean feedback.This kind of thing is becoming an epidemic.
posted on October 21, 2001 08:55:03 PM
I was going to suggest that you seek out Eventer to write your FB response on this buyer as he is VERY GOOD at it. But since he has posted already, you can see for yourself.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:11:08 PM
As I am researching this "libel" situation as it relates to feedbacks I would suggest that anyone interested to look at the following sites:
and of particular interest is the following:Cyber Libel Issues: Can the operator of a website
be sued for libel for messages that are posted?
To date, actions for libel based on e-mails have been launched in Australia, England and the United States and have had varied results. For example a court in Western Australia found a publisher of a defamatory e-mail message on the Internet to be liable for $40,000 (Rindos v. Harwicke). An action by Dr. Laurence Godfrey of CERN, Geneva, Switzerland, for libel on usenet in England, was settled with the plaintiff accepting the defendant's payment of money into court (Godfrey). An action for an e-mail libel by an American businessman against a defendant journalist was settled (Suarez v. Meeks).
Current Principles Governing Liability:
Currently, the law governing owner/operators of computer bulletin boards or websites can be distilled into the following principles:
If the defamer is a disreputable publication or person, the statement could simply be treated with contempt, to avoid further republication.
A computer network service is not a "periodical", which would require an opportunity for retraction under the defamation statute of Wisconsin. (In the Cards Inc. v. Fuschetto 193 Wis.2d 429, 535 N.W.2d 11 C.A.).
Owners and/or operators of a network of computers are liable for defamatory material which they write and publish on the network, or receive from third parties and cause to be published on the network. Consequently, a corporation could be vicariously liable for statements published by employees.
If a third party publishes defamatory material on the network and the material is then retransmitted via the network, the owner and/or operator of the network may be liable, but only if:
they or their agents knew that the material was defamatory; or
they or their agents had reason to be suspicious that some or all of the material was defamatory. The nature and previous history of the newsgroup or mailing group where the defamatory material was posted, the previous history of the person posting the message, and reading the defamatory material are all factors which might spark the suspicions of network owners and/or operators.
posted on October 21, 2001 11:31:52 PM
a) track and insure every single item and charge for it.
b) Never leave feedback until you get feedback and reciprocate.
c) To prove Slander you need to show a loss on tax returns of the
business (been there) slander is a difficult case, defamatory is
easier if not true.
d) When in a unreachable settlement with a buyer, near exhaustion,
remind the aggressor of retainer of an attorney (if true, if not,
you should retain one) and remind if slanderous, defamatory
statements are made you will without hesitation take legal action,
contact ebay with proof to remove said statements, and reciprocate
the same plus respond to any false statements.
Hard copy any auction of any freak bidder and all email.
