posted on October 23, 2001 08:05:13 AM
I don't really care, I guess. I was honest and forthright in my neutral. Since he did actually end up paying and liked the item, I refrained from giving him a negative. But felt a neutral was better than nothing because it would serve as a warning to other sellers out there.
My original neutral on him was: "A bit uncooperative, but finally paid." That's it. I didn't get into how he was uncooperative, just that he was and finally paid. Basically, he didn't respond in 3 days. I sent him a reminder and he said he would let me know in the 7-10 days that the auction said (it never said anything of the sort) HOW and WHEN he was going to pay. Not that I'd be paid in that time, just in that time he'd let me know. I explained to him that the auction did not say that, ebay does not say that, and he ignored me. After the 10th day, I get a PayPal notice that he's paid with an e-check that will take 4 business days or so to clear. I had been asking him nicely to fill out our End-of-Auction information form and he kept refusing and arguing and trying to tell me how to run my auctions.
This was a couple of days ago. Today I get a message that he's REALLY ANGRY (he uses ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME) that I did this and that I will be sorry for it (not sure what he means there, although he's supposedly complaining to ebay about this -- not sure on what grounds).
He also claimed having a "perfect record", when in reality he (now) has 2 neutrals and 5 negatives. Admittedly they are older, but it is still not "perfect".
Regardless, I know I need to move on and ignore him, but I just want to make sure there is nothing ebay will do about his complaints, correct? I've not been hostile, profane, or threatening -- so I don't know that I've done anything wrong.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:11:55 AM
Geez! A jerk AND a liar! I wonder what he plans to do to 'make you sorry'. Maybe eBay would want to have that email for their files. I sure don't see that there is anything they could or would do to you in response to a complaint from him. Hope he disappears from the scene but I'd sure keep a watch out and, obviously, block that ID from my auctions. good luck!
posted on October 23, 2001 08:19:26 AM
Oh my! First I would send his email to safeharbor, because that's really a threat, then send it on to his ISP, because threats are kind of considered not in good taste these days. Then I would block him from bidding and from this day on, delete his e-mails.
Has he left you fb yet? He probably will leave you a negative. Just respond in your own file and move on.
FYI, the 3 days that eBay recommends is not a set rule and it's 3 business days, not just 3 days.
A lot of bidders don't like filling out forms at the end of the auction .. I'm one of them. If I see the seller is using some auction program which has me hopping around to another site for a form, I back out.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:32:48 AM
Normally, I do not stress the form thing. 80% of my buyers will fill out the information the first time, or with a gentle reminder. It just makes it easier when preparing postage to go to one source to get all the information, key in tracking numbers, etc. Plus, with auctionwatch, it allows the buyer to track their own package (if trackable).
Regardless, this guy just got pushy about it all and argued repeatedly. And again, EVERYTHING HE SENT WAS IN ALL CAPS. Ugh!
I had him blocked from my auctions before all this happened -- didn't want him wreaking havoc on me that way -- though I won't put it past him getting a new ID just to slam me.
And fortunately, he DID post postive feedback -- which really hurts his claim that I was a troublemaker in all this. The fact that he'd already posted for me strengthed my resolve to go ahead and do the right thing and post the neutral.
I think I will forward his emails to safeharbor and AOL (like they will do anything).
posted on October 23, 2001 11:42:25 AM
Well, your altruism came back and bit you. I don't understand why you (or anyone) would leave a neutral to warn other sellers. I don't care if they took 3 or 10 days to pay, just as long as they pay. It's not like I am going to cancel their bid if they did not pay you. It's really not worth it, and this definitely shows that.
posted on October 23, 2001 11:54:54 AM
You might not, but other sellers might. And it's not that he took 10 days to actually pay. It's that he took 10 days to get around to indicating that he even WAS going to pay. It was his general attitude.
No, you might not look at the records of your bidders -- and that is definitely your choice. But it would be wrong of me to assume that since some people don't look that I shouldn't bother doing the right thing.
posted on October 23, 2001 11:57:41 AM
I'm not telling anyone how to run their business. Would you remove their bid because they took long to pay? If so, I hope we sell the same thing!
posted on October 23, 2001 12:02:43 PM
No one said you were telling anyone how to run their business. However, I run mine insuring I do what little I can to help other sellers. THe least I can do is provide appropriate feedback so that each seller can make their own decision.
No, the late payment is not the big deal (as I've made pretty clear). It was his uncooperative attitude that was the bigger deal.
And yes, I'd cancel a bid from someone who has a history of late payments, poor attitudes, etc.
So I posted correct feedback. If he behaves himself, then my one feedback won't matter to many. BUT, if he has a pattern of doing this, and other sellers do their duty and post proper feedback, then future sellers will benefit from this information.
posted on October 23, 2001 12:23:35 PM
jmho2
you say send a copy of the email to his isp as it is a threat and they are kind of frowned upon these days...PLEASE, how laughable is that. send it ot the isp. there was not type of threat where an isp would even consider getting involved. hell why not just tell his mother. your thinking is just the kind that has stirred the pot about anthrax and auctions. you need to remember people have the right of free speach. i can tell you you will be sorry as much as i want as long as specific threats are not made. if i told you that you will be sorry if you don't stop posting such comments do you think my isp would care???? no, but i am sure i will get a warning from one of the laughable moderators.
posted on October 23, 2001 12:41:21 PM
PLONK! Another brand new AW troll gets invited to be on my ignore list, and even before the Moderators do their thing
posted on October 23, 2001 01:06:40 PM
PEIKLK: How dare you???? Post feedback that ACTUALLY reflects what has happened on a deal so people are informed???? What are you trying to do.....make feedback WORK????
For myself, I am always thankful for buyers & sellers who screw up the courage to tell it like it is!!
posted on October 23, 2001 03:03:34 PM
Here are a couple of things to think about that I've not seen addressed so far:
1. Seller initially sends a reminder to buyer because buyer doesn't respond within 3 days.
Is it stated in the auction that buyers are supposed to respond in 3 days? I have many buyers who don't bother to respond other than sending payment. It sounds like this buyer initially got peeved perhaps because he felt he was being jumped on prematurely.
2. Seller repeatedly tries to force buyer to fill out AW's automated WBN form.
Obviously the buyer doesn't feel comfortable filling out such forms and we've seen numerous threads about why many people might not feel comfortable turning over their information to a third-party website. Buyer refuses repeatedly, yet seller keeps insisting. Why? Is it stated in the auction that buyers are required to fill out the automated form, or was this method of closing the transaction sprung on the buyer as a total surprise?
If it was stated in the auction that the buyer would be required to contact the seller within 3 days and also would have to fill out an automated form on another website, then the buyer was in the wrong for not following the terms.
But if all of this was sprung on the buyer after the fact, then you can hardly blame the buyer for being mad about it.
posted on October 23, 2001 03:07:08 PM
I just want to clarify that I'm not condoning the buyer's harrassment. Not at all.
I hope this ends for you quickly and painlessly. He can't stay mad forever and must have better things to do with his time than beat an issue to death.
posted on October 23, 2001 03:09:20 PM
Don't bother leaving feedback to help this seller. I do not look at bidder feedback unless exceptional circumstance. Thanks anyway!
posted on October 23, 2001 04:52:23 PM
Are we in business to sell merchandise or to control the behavior of our customers?
So the seller has to send a second email because the buyer doesn't contact within 3 days...big deal. It is part of doing business that some will not respond within three days.
So the customer didn't want to fill in the form..again, big deal. The seller is in the business of SELLING not getting filled out forms.
So the buyer used all caps...some people don't realize how hard it is to read all caps...and some have such bad eyesight that they have to use all caps to see what they wrote. But either way, it isn't a reason to give someone non-positive feedback.
This seller got paid and then complains because he got an electronic check..sheez, there is no pleasing some sellers.
I think this comment was the most telling one here was this one...
The fact that he'd already posted for me strengthed my resolve to go ahead and do the right thing and post the neutral.
The seller felt safe...he wouldn't get a negative so he went ahead and left inapropiate feedback knowing the buyer couldn't retaliate.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:08:00 PM
How high and mighty of you to leave a your crappy feedback after you already got your pos. I think you were a coward and hope I never have to deal with you....
posted on October 23, 2001 05:11:04 PM
I have a question for the originator of the thread - Can you honestly say you would have left neutral feedback if they did not leave feedback first, so there would have been a possibility of a negative?
posted on October 23, 2001 06:14:16 PM
She didn't hit the nail on the head...she used a nail gun!
Very erudite post. I mean, c'mon. All I really care about is if I get the money from these folks. If they send it, I send them their stuff, and everyone is hunky-dory.
I'm assuming we are taking about the EOA form from Andale or AW or the like, right? I never use those lame forms either...and I don't use a seller more than once that uses them. I figure if a seller is that lazy that he can't handle his own auctions without allowing my personal information to fall into third party hands, who knows what else he or she is capable of.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:35:46 PM
Just for clarification, I might not have posted the neutral while he still had the ability to neg me. However, based on principle, I probably would have ended up doing it. I held up my end of the deal and did not harrass the customer -- so I didn't deserve a neg, it would have been retaliatory only.
I am in the business of selling items. This customer seemed more interested in taking over the transaction than buying the items. It's never happened to me before, so it's not a pattern.
Amy, as usual, has MISSED the point completely. A careful reading of this thread will show her where she is wrong, but I did not complain about getting an electronic check -- I take them all the time. No probs there.
I've only ever complained about the customer's failure to cooperate and their attempts to dictate the terms of sale. PERIOD. For this, they were rightly given a neutral feedback.
posted on October 23, 2001 07:11:56 PMAfter the 10th day, I get a PayPal notice that he's paid with an e-check that will take 4 business days or so to clear
If this didn't upset you why did you use it as one of the points about all the "bad" things your customer did?
Simple logic says you are using this as one of your justifications for leaving this customer the negative neutral.
I've only ever complained about the customer's failure to cooperate and their attempts to dictate the terms of sale. PERIOD.
Nothing in your posts really showed the customer refused to cooperate. As BjGrolle pointed out...if your TOS didn't state that filling out your form was mandatory then the customer WASN'T being noncooperative. (I noticed you never responded to the quetion of just what IS in your TOS). And that is the only point where it could even be considered that the customer wasn't cooperative.
Actually, you seem to be the one who is missing the point. The point is...we are trying to sell our merchandise and although the customer may not always be right, we should TREAT him like he is. Being rigid and inflexible about your TOS is a great way to drive customers away. The name of the game is to make the CUSTOMER happy...that should be priority one.
Putting your TOS above making the customer happy just so you have absolute control is not what it is all about. If the customer is balking at one of your RULES and bending that rule is not going to hurt you then BEND THE DANG RULE!! Your customer did not want to fill out your form...not filling out that form meant nothing more than a smidgen of inconvenience to you.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:14:50 PM
As I stated, I don't require the user to fill out the form -- I said I've had many who don't -- but still the majority do so.
As for the check, I used it to point out that not only did the buyer ignore requests for payment, then when he finally DID get around to paying, he chose a method that would delay things even further. You read too much into what I said, Amy. It was included as the final straw, not one that by itself would be so bad.
Nevertheless, this is the first troublemaker I've had to deal with -- so what I'm doing is apparently working quite fine. I understand all about customer service, but as I said bending over backwards is fine. Bending over for the customer is not.
And finally, I didn't leave him a negative, but a neutral. THere is no such thing as a negative neutral on ebay.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:33:28 PM
Well, if you don't require the customer to fill out the form and don't get upset if they don't want to, and if you are perfectly happy to recieve an electronic check, and the late payment was no big deal (as you yourself said earlier) then what the heck WAS the problem?
If you don't find these points a problem with other customers how can they be the straws that broke the camels back here?
If you do not get upset about these points with other customers then obviously these points DO NOT make you decide the customer is being uncooperative...yet in this case it did..why?
Could the answer be that you just had a wild hair up your hiney that day and overreacted to things that don't normally cause you to be upset? In other words...the poor customer got whopped because you got up on the wrong side of the bed?
And yes, there are such things as negative neutrals...they are negative comments that are left as a "neutral". On top of the fact that MANY ebayers see any neutral in a negative light.
posted on October 24, 2001 10:42:39 AM
I would say a neutral is a non-positive, but by nature, it's not a negative. 0 is not a positive OR a negative number.
UPDATE: Bubba (not his name) took me to Square Trade to get his feedback removed. Trick is, he's going to have to pay them $15 to get feedback removed for a $5 item. I pretty much said fine, if he wants to pay them to remove it, then so be it. He came back with a stream of insults (in the Square Trade record) and demanding that ebay remove it and wanting me to apologize, etc. What a goober.
As for his record, he's at like 370 anyway. He buys a lot and this will be off-screen in a couple of days (the first screen). If he were bidding on my stuff and I didn't already have this hassle with him directly, I'd 99.99999% take his bid. One problem (recently) does not show a pattern and he'd be welcome.
He's really making too much of this. And he's been told if he doesn't calm down, I will remove my offer to let Square Trade remove the feedback.
