zoogal2
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posted on October 25, 2001 10:21:41 AM
VRANE!!!!!!!!
OUCH!!!
Ok, here is the story.
I decided to sign up with them.
I had trouble signing up with them so I e-mailed them.
Here is our e-mail conversation. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This was supposed to be my day off from BOTH of my jobs.For those of you who do not know. I teach emotionally distubed kids and I also train animals for the zoo.Well I felt like I was at work during all of this.....you decide which job I am referring to. LOL
e-mail..
> I signed up today. I try to sign in but when I do it tells me my password is not correct.....so............I have a new password e-mailed to me and go in again. I then create a new password and try to sign in only to be told that it is incorrect.
> what am I doing wrong?
vrane...."Are you using your email address
to log in?"
me....yes. I am using this e-mail address, which is the one I use on ebay"
vrane ......"What password?"
me........"> I used the temporary one that was sent to me and changed it.Your site
> accepted the change. I then tried to log on using my password I had created
> and got this message......."You entered password and/or member name
> incorrectly. Please try again."
> so I thought ....hmmm........ maybe I need to use me ebay id........ I know
> I have to when I used your public snipe box once before...........so I tried
> that.same message."
vrane......"I ask you again. What password?"
me..........."I am not giving my password out over e-mail"
I know he has my e-mail but I don't feel comfortable sending it though e-mail.
vrane........"I own and control the website
and have the means to verify
the password.
Do not email again"
CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT!!!???
but oh, it gets better.....
I then e-mailed him one last time to let him know that I didn't mean I didn't want him to have the password...I just didn't trust my e-mail and I also told him I had read on here how others thought he was rude and here is the response...
me......." I understand you own this, I don't trust where the e-mail might go besides
> you..Don't worry.I will not e-mail again.
> Interesting.I was just at auctionwatch yesterday and saw a discussion about
> your site.People were discussing how RUDE you were..they were right...think
> I will go comment as well..."
vrane......."Perhaps you should write to Ann Landers
about my manners too"
HAHAHA..........like I said..I feel like I am still at work!!!I didn't even bother to reply...
so can anyone tell me of ANOTHER service like this to use?? I will pay EXTRA for a nice CS.
IF not, maybe one of you techies can create one???
~ZG~
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commentary
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posted on October 25, 2001 10:45:32 AM
ZG
It seems that Vrane try to help you but you refused. He emailed you three times and ask you for your password. You refused to give it to him. Clearly he cannot determine what the problem is without your password. He does not know if you were entering the wrong password or if there is a problem with the system accepting a correct entry.
Regarding your concern about sending your password via email, that is clearly silly. Once Vrane determine what was the problem, I am sure you would have reset your password to some new password.
Anyway, that is all water under the bridge. It will help us to find you a replacement service if you let us know what product you were trying to use on Vrane.
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petertdavis
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posted on October 25, 2001 10:51:00 AM
commentary, I agree 100%, but it would have taken Vrane 20 seconds to explain that to zoogal2. Vrane should consider hiring someone to handle their customer service, even if it means raising their prices a bit.
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eSeller004
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:03:59 AM
Maybe they're virtually the "only" game in town like eBay and couldn't care less who they offend. 
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RB
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:12:56 AM
Definitely write to Ann Landers. Yes, Ann Landers. Gotta write Ann Landers ...
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commentary
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:13:20 AM
Peterdavis
Yes, I think we can all agree that Vrane is certainly lacking in CS. But, if he is a one man operation, it can be wearing to deal with customers on a continual daily basis. Especially, if 90% of the problems are seemingly "the rountine silly ones" in Vrane's perspective.
I am not sure if he can afford to hire someone. His pricing is quite low and a good number of his products are still free. In terms of economics, he may be better off upseting and losing a few customers than to hire more help. The lost revenue from these few customers may not offset the cost of more help. Of course, Vrane's image will continually suffer. But, clearly Vrane does not give a hoot what anyone thinks of him.
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wbdareme
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:13:24 AM
Zoogal's reluctance to give her password is understandable given the amount of fraud concerning passwords, particularly on AOL. There's absolutely NO excuse for such rudeness on Vrane's part. Being polite isn't that hard! Geesh!
FWIW I'm a Vrane user. Heaven help me if I ever have trouble.
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ladyatana
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:22:06 AM
I do not use Vrane & I am not actually sure what it is exactly.
That said, zoogal2 was absolutely justified in her refusal to give her password. As a site administrator ( operation, owner, whatever), all a person would need would be your ID and possibly some other info to set you up with a temp password again, and log you in through it. Asking for a person's password is completely against normal procedure for ALL computer systems. Most people use the same password for many things: credit card accounts, internet banking, ebay, etc...
It sounds to me that not only is this guy very rude, he is also ignorant of standand computing procedures.
JMHO
Lady Atana
[ edited by ladyatana on Oct 25, 2001 11:22 AM ]
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computerboy
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:22:37 AM
Vrane's owner is a computer programmer and a damn good one. His software is better than any other out there. Bar none. What he lacks in customer service, he more than makes up for in product delivery, so I recommend you find a way to kiss and make up.
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camachinist
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:25:47 AM
Amherst Robots is nothing if not abrupt....an unfortunate side-effect of an engineer providing customer service....they often have little patience with we common folk..
I know I have to when I used your public snipe box once before
Since you gave Vrane your ebay ID and password over the open internet (as I've done many times with vrane and bidnapper) what is your aversion to giving them your vrane ID and password in email? (I trust your vrane password is different from your ebay one).
I've noticed vrane's password field is case and space sensitive....did you try all possible permutations of your password? Also, sometimes, my keyboard inadvertantly goes to caps lock without the indicator light showing such.....I've had a few password problems because of that phenomena......it may not apply to your case but I'm throwing it out there for speculation.
Vrane isn't for everybody and definitely doesn't get A's for patience with the average user but, if you've got a thick enough skin, they offer some really cool products at a reasonable (or free) cost....
Good luck!
Pat
ubb flub
[ edited by camachinist on Oct 25, 2001 11:27 AM ]
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zoogal2
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:25:55 AM
"Regarding your concern about sending your password via email, that is clearly silly."
I don't feel it was silly.I have been an internet user for quite a while and have seen and heard of odd things.Yes I could change the password afterwards but since this is where the orginal problem arose I was afraid I would be back in the same boat when trying to sign on.
I am not giving it a second thought.I will just continue to do things the old fashioned way as I am sure there are other companies out there that could offer me the same service without the rude e-mails.It is his loss..not mine.
RB...Ann Landers.....no I was thinking more of Dr.Laura LOL
wbdareme thank you !!! EXACTLY!!
~ZG~
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zoogal2
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:32:48 AM
ladyatana - thanks for the explanation.That is what I "thought" but really didn't know for sure.
computerboy....kiss and make up????Why??What did "I" do? I was just asking for help? I don't care if he is the only one that offers this.I will just continue the old fashioned way...I have been doing this for 3 years anyway.
pat...
"Since you gave Vrane your ebay ID and password over the open internet (as I've done many times with vrane and bidnapper) what is your aversion to giving them your vrane ID and password in email? (I trust your vrane password is different from your ebay one)."
I just didn't "feel" comfortable...ya know what I mean. I wasn't worried about him....just didn't want to e-mail it....it just bothered me to do that. I have dealt with hundreds of online company's over the years and have never had to do that before and they have always helped me anyway.
I just wanted to add.
The whole point is about CS. Some may think I was being silly but I am just more skeptical now then I was even a year ago. I have had a successful ebay business for over 3 years and have ran across some pretty silly request from some of my buyers...but hey there are PAYING customers and I try to be as nice as I can to them even though I may personally think their request is silly.WHY??? Because I want them as a repeat customer.
[ edited by zoogal2 on Oct 25, 2001 11:37 AM ]
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ExecutiveGirl
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:34:46 AM
Zoogal: I had a similar problem with Vrane a while back. (I just looked for the thread and can't find it).. but I received the same type of ill-mannered responses followed by a "don't email me again".
Then, out of nowhere he REFUNDED my payment (I had paid a while before that, and I wasn't asking for a refund). He basically refunded all my money and closed my account so I could not use any of the Vrane services.
Some make excuses for him like "he runs a one man show"... but that is absolutely NO good reason for being rude to a paying customer.
You might want to look into HammerTap as an alternative to Vrane. They don't have a lot of vrane's services but I think they are growing.
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zoogal2
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:39:06 AM
ExecutiveGirl
thanks for the info. I have got to run some errands now but WILL check them out later this evening. Well atleast I feel better knowing it wasn't just me!
~ZG~
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katiyana
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:41:54 AM
OK, this is slightly OT but I wanted to comment on this: "Most people use the same password for many things: credit card accounts, internet banking, ebay, etc... "
I'm sorry, but isn't it one of those basic rules of computing to NEVER duplicate passwords at different locations??? Exactly for the reason of if one password is hacked, you stand a chance of suffering A LOT more damage...
I have a different password for every site / situation etc and change them regularly.
Vrane's webmaster is abrupt, but I thought I remembered reading in an earlier thread that English isn't his first language - so maybe its a cultural thing?
Doesn't excuse the rudeness, but I've had very good response to emailed questions & comments when I've needed to use it.
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camachinist
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posted on October 25, 2001 11:44:03 AM
Is this the thread you're talking about EG?
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=362001&id=362001
And you didn't invite me to the wedding!
Pat
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skeetersdaddy
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posted on October 25, 2001 12:04:08 PM
geez just what this forum need,s a flashback to executivegirl whining. don't we have to endure enough of that in real time!? she is an executive no dpubt. the CEO of Whining Inc.
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camachinist
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posted on October 25, 2001 12:12:50 PM
Ain't nostalgia grand?
I posted the link because the thread contained one of Vrane's longest post's on AW during the 2 1/2 years I've been here...he's usually a man of few words....and elicited his side of the customer service debate...
Hope I didn't offend...
Pat
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SmittyAW
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posted on October 25, 2001 12:19:41 PM
skeetersdaddy..
It is against the CG's to post rude and insulting comments. You must treat this community with respect in order to protect your posting privileges. Address the topic of this thread and refrain from insulting other posters.
Smitty
[email protected]
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kerrigirl
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posted on October 25, 2001 01:01:18 PM
I think VRANE's rudeness is NOT acceptable. Period. You cannot stay in business with that attitude towards novices or experts. You are paying for a service, and it is not working.
Would you accept this behaviour face-to-face? At a store? At a restaraunt? At COMPUSA even?
He could have simply said, "I need to know the password you are using to see if you might be entering it incorrectly."
Don't just ask, "What is your password?" without further explanation. People are incorrect, e-mail is NOT secure, and goes to several nodes before arriving at it's destination (even if you live across the street). That is why we have PGP e-mail and secure webpages.
You know if he was so smart he could use a CRM software package to handle issues in a ticketed format. If he can't handle programming it he could spend a couple of hundred dollars buying one. He could also use some standard response lines like "Unless further information is given, I cannot assist you further." While that is just putting sugar on the "do not e-mail me again" line it is more acceptable.
I think we are all getting used to ebay's "wonderful" (full sarcasm implied) customer service and many sites like it. I just remember the old addage (even for the online world), "If you wouldn't say it to someone's face, don't say it in e-mail."
One man operation is really no excuse. He has been around long enough to put some support systems in place. A new site I could understand, but one that has been around as long as his has now, and been bringing in revenue, now needs to work on customer service.
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ladyatana
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posted on October 25, 2001 01:02:07 PM
katiyana : I'm sorry, but isn't it one of those basic rules of computing to NEVER duplicate passwords at different locations??? Exactly for the reason of if one password is hacked, you stand a chance of suffering A LOT more damage...
Very true, katiyana! Unfortunately not computer users follow these rules. And let's face it, if you have to have a different password for everything you log into, most people will never remember what password goes where. Heck, I am a IT person and I (along with everyone I know) only have at the most 3 passwords that are used repeatedly in different situations.
To address the fact that this Vrane person is an engineer... it is true that some (I daresay, MOST) IT people have a tendency to treat everyone one else as morons. I don't know why this is, but I find it appalling. The help desk where I work is deplorably rude, so I find myself getting phone calls for all sorts of problems that have nothing to do with my speciality (Web Engineering) simply because I will answer their questions as nicely as I can, or if I can't help them, I will ask the Help Desk for them. Being a fellow "nerd" I am treated a little better. Talk about getting OT
Whew!!! Anyway, after making a short story long, engineer or not, this person is running a business which deals with customers, and therefore should be prepared to offer good customer service himself or hire someone to deal with his customers for him.
[ edited by ladyatana on Oct 25, 2001 01:06 PM ]
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chum
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posted on October 25, 2001 01:09:53 PM
VRANE turned me when they never posted any messages during that long outage. I have since used my last relists and I wont pay for more. I have read many posts on messageboards about their attitude.
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capotasto
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posted on October 25, 2001 01:10:13 PM
"Do not email again" .... "Perhaps you should write to Ann Landers about my manners too"
Actually you were communicating with their computer. After the movie was made, HAL was auctioned off.. you know, the defective computer. Vrane bought it for $19.95 . HAL does a good job in the software department but has a thing against wetware.
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RB
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posted on October 25, 2001 01:50:32 PM
Actually you were communicating with their computer
So is Ann Landers. Nobody can live that long, can they?
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Empires
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posted on October 25, 2001 06:29:57 PM
I liked VRANE before the changes. Haven't been back since. Shame, I liked VRANE too, once before.
[ edited by Empires on Oct 25, 2001 06:31 PM ]
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mrspock
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posted on October 25, 2001 06:35:30 PM
reminds me of when we had a B&M My wife and the women we had working there finally asked me to stay away from the customers and stick to buying pricing ect.
I also, dont suffer fools gently
The man told you repeatadly what info he neede to help you and refused to provide it.
I was known to pull out a phonebook and direct customers to my competitors in this type of sitituation.
I recall one customer bringing in a item he had brought with him form the north that didn't work as soon as he described the problem I knew exactly what was wrong and told him.
Oh no he says my brother in law used to work in this field and he says that can't be the problem.....So go let your brother in law fix it and leave me alone...
spock here...... TILL NOV 1 ANYWAY
Live long and Prosper
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camachinist
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posted on October 25, 2001 06:55:29 PM
I was known to pull out a phonebook and direct customers to my competitors in this type of situation
hehehe...I have the pages bookmarked...
Employees aren't the only individuals who can be fired...
I have a little sign over the parts table where most jobs come into the shop...
Do you want to know the truth or just have a little sunshine blown up there? (Cleaned up for polite consumption...my shop is a testosterone hangout)
I agree that there are lots of auction services providers just like there are lots of stores and machine shops....something for everyone
Pat
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Capriole
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posted on October 25, 2001 08:25:52 PM
zoogal...maybe if you work a deal where you send part of your password in one email and the rest in another.
I have bought stuff online sending my visa card to venders this way.
It's not so bad, really. I know paranoia is high these days, but some of the folks I buy stuff from just don't want to deal with online shopping carts.
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zoogal2
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posted on October 25, 2001 09:54:05 PM
"The man told you repeatadly what info he neede to help you and refused to provide it."
uh....no he didn't.He kept repeating one thing. He NEVER explained why he needed it and I still stand by the fact that I did not feel comfortable giving out that info. Why should I be forced to do something I did not feel comfortable doing?
I can live without his service until someone comes along that offers the same or similar service that has friendly customer service.
Capriole sending e-mail seperate WOULD be an option if I were going to still do business with him.Which I am not.
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Capriole
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posted on October 25, 2001 10:09:06 PM
I hear you on FM...pretty silly fellow...the programmer side of his brain doesn't talk to the public relations side of his brain.
I have perused the site and there are a few things I would like to try.
But now...not too inspired.
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