posted on December 6, 2001 07:52:49 PM
I won an auction for a computer game my son wanted for Xmas. Title said "New" and TOS said "New CD in jewel case with instructions". Picture in auction shows the box front.
What I got was a Priority Mail envelope with an OPENED jewel case & CD, and an instruction book. No original box. So I'm supposed to believe this Seller when he says this is New? Was I taken because it didn't say New and SEALED jewel case with CD? Where did the box go?
B&M stores define New CD's as sealed, I couldn't try and return one that was opened and say it was still "New"!
Seller has thousands of positive feedback (yeah, I know, so what!)and has not responded to any of my emails.
In hindsight, when I look back at his TOS, in the fine, fine print, I see this long return policy and various restocking fees associated with returns. A bell should have gone off in my head that any Seller with this extensive a return and restocking policy must have to do this quite a few times, yet his feedback doesn't reflect it, so am I being picky that I bought a New computer game as a gift, only to receive an opened CD and no original box?
I have bought other CD's before - music, books on tape and in each case NEW = sealed and if the jewel case was opened, the condition was described - "listened to once", "used - excellent condition", etc.
Am I missing something here, or was this auction misrepresented as being a New item?
I guess in the future I'll have to "ask the Seller a question" and hope I get an answer to "What does New mean to you?"!!!
posted on December 6, 2001 08:01:09 PM
NEW means to me that it doesn't belong in the antiques section. I also wish it meant that it wasn't in the collectibles section either. It also means that it hasn't been used.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:01:57 PM
In this case it seems the seller distinguishes between the words "new" and "unopened". New might mean "never used" to him although the package may have been opened to look at the contents, that could be stretching the use of the word new to cover that. I'm surprised he didn't send you the box.
For me if I sell something new, somewhere in the ad I make sure to specify "brand-new, unsealed, never been opened, never used, still in shrinkwrap" (however many of those adjectives apply) so that the seller and buyer are on the same page, talking about the same thing.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:07:59 PM
MIB -mint in box is a trade term for an item which arrived from factory ,mint condition .but ebay is a flea market,given its reputation of zillion of individual sellers from all over the world and many are so called weekend warriors who do this at home and part time,new can mean MINT IN BOX,can mean like new to the seller,could mean passable for resale to the seller or just something which has never been used or played with or has been played with but does not count by seller standard.
it can be rather subjective on a venue such as ebay.
no offense,but when you go to a flea market,do you really believe every thing a seller tell you??
posted on December 6, 2001 08:10:38 PM
"New" to me means without defects, no noticeable or depleting usage, and fit for the use intended. Packaging, IMHO, is an ancillary part of the product that isn't always necessary.
Having the CD "sealed" to me is not important for the item to be "new". A seller can buy a shrink wrapping outfit for a few hundred dollars and shrink wrap an otherwise opened product. If it were re-shrink wrapped, would you consider it new ?
The original packaging for software/games isn't important to me as long as there was no necessary documentation on the packaging.
When I ship "new" CDs, I do not use the original jewel cases, I replace the jewel case with a soft plastic slimline case that will not fracture or break in shipping. I include the inserts, but they won't fit into the replacement jewel cases. But I also explain this clearly and up front in the listing.
My main concern with a CD is that it works, and has documentation, not the packaging.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:43:31 PM
stopwhining - No, I don't believe everything a Seller says, but at least at a flea market I can look the Seller in the eye and judge if he/she is feeding me a bunch of bull. All I have on ebay is a bunch of words whose definitions vary. If you include a picture, I expect it to represent the item. I don't expect a bait and switch.
I would have been more comfortable with accepting this auction if the Seller had said "Minty","Opened and tested", "Not sealed" instead of "New" and "I took a picture of the box, but you're not bidding on it." Better yet, how about just showing me a picture what I'm actually receiving?
If I would see a box of "New Cheerios" up for auction on ebay with a picture of the BOX in the description, I don't expect a Seller to send me a baggy of Cheerios in a Priority Mail envelope. I would expect a box of Cheerios.
I have chalked this up to another ebay learning experience. If I see a "zebra" up for auction, I'll be sure to ask the Seller "Are you sure that isn't just a horse you painted stripes on?", especially when they describe their 75% restocking fee on return of said "zebra".
posted on December 6, 2001 09:06:53 PM
to look someone in the eyes and decide if he is telling you the truth is most subjective,we may as well bring on the voodoo high priest and hex this seller .
you said he has over 1000 feedbacks,and he is selling cds.
many sellers mass loads these items and use the same pictures and decriptions for the same title.
say he has 20 copies of title xyz,and some are not as pristine as others,but when he upload these in bulk,he is not going to remove the original pciture and description,some sellers unleashes 5000 items at a time,they are all prepared ahead of time-canned picture,canned description.
could be that after he found a buyer,he started looking for a good copy and found out they are all sold except the less desirable ones.
so it is possible he did at one time have new mint condition ones,they have been sold and the ones left are less desirable.
ebay is getting more and more like a flea market,sellers found items in dumpsters,liquidation & returns,buy in bulk etc.
posted on December 6, 2001 10:33:53 PM
The seller had a picture of a box, and there was no disclosure box was not included, that is false advertising plain and simple. There are specific laws pertaining to that. Tell the seller you'd like a refund, assuming you do, otherwise you'll report him to a the Federal Trade Comnmission. The FTC does not have legal power but they can iniate lawsuits on your behalf. The problem is they usually have to build a case against the seller, meaning this has to happen to others, and those consumers must report it too. You could sue on your own, but unless seller is in your state, it's not worth it.
Car dealerships sell New Cars, but go test the cars out and they have 9,000 miles, however, they do deduct the milage to the sticker price.
New usually applies to age, but collectible dealers use the term to mean unused. What if the seal is broken and not used? It's still new.
You did receive a new CD in jewel case w/ instructions, so the seller was right in that regard. He was wrong of sending you the item w/o box as described in the photo.
posted on December 7, 2001 07:28:51 AM
he used the picture to illustrate his product,if he has to take a picture every time he sells a copy of the item,he would be spending more time taking pictures instead of selling.
of course some of you would be so righteous to say he should take picture of every product he sells,some of you have never taken a course in cost accounting and not realise ebay sellers work for 35 cents an hour.
i am always amazed why folks come to ebay to look for a bargain with the expectation that the quality,customer service etc should be at par with saks,neiman,walmart ,home depot .i would say for someone who like to shop on ebay,you will find some nasty surprises,hopefully the overrall results is satisfactory enough for you to keep buying on ebay.
dont be so naive,read past posts on sellers selling refurbished items,store returns,bid on liquidation lots,store closeouts,search items from dumpster and office trash cans,attics,basements .personal closets,garage sales,thrift shops.
posted on December 7, 2001 07:37:48 AM
The seller should have put a disclaimer below the picture, but just because the case wasn't sealed doesn't mean it isn't new. The seller or his source may have removed the case from the box to save on storage or shipping costs. I sell plenty of new discs that aren't sealed. But I don't show a picture of the box in the ad.
posted on December 7, 2001 09:15:07 AM
stopwhining, reusing a photo is not the problem. The seller did not disclose with the photo that the box is not included. If he's selling 100 of the same item and half don't have boxes, he must disclose on the half w/o boxes that it is not included, or state on all listings "item may not come with box." Simple!
posted on December 7, 2001 12:02:38 PM
Sellers who misrepresent used goods as new is an exceedingly common problem with casual internet sellers. No, you cannot believe this seller's claim that the item was new. Your CD auction seller had no business using the word.
posted on December 7, 2001 12:26:33 PM
quickdraw-
what i am depicting is a scenario where the seller launched a bulk loading program which will list hundreds or thousands of cd or stamps or limoge style porcelain boxes which are available in large quantity,may be not all in his place but places he has access to easily.
lets say he had bot in a liquidation auction a large lot of cd,some mint,some almost mint ,some not too perfect.
as he keeps selling,the mint ones go out the door first and then the almost mint and down the line.
if he does not check his inventory against his master loader,he is going to misrepresent his items.and if he has thousand of titles,it is not difficult to do.
of course some righteous aw members would say he should check all 5000 listings against his inventory on hand,examine each and take picture and describe each one in detail as to what the deviation is.but he has not .
this is not confucious 101 or moral ethics 101,this is the way some ebay sellers operate,poor record keeping,poor physical inventory control.
inventory is warehoused under the bed,in closets,garage,attic,dining room table and can be easily lost or damaged.if they dont arrive damaged already as many are store returns,seconds and rejects.
get real,you want a utopia where sellers are 100 % honest,refund payment,represent goods honestly,take time describng and taking picture of each item and sell them at 30% of the retail price,i have a piece of swamp land i want to talk to you about.
b $ m retailers have found it impossible to compete with their full retail prices ,wholesalers are having some problem competing against folks who sell store returns,liquidation goods,and the traditional retailers and wholesalers are the ones who sell MINT ,NEW,MINT IN BOX GOODS and they have been chased out of ebay.
as long as ebay bidders do not want to pay a price which allow a business respectable profit which they can use to pay their employees and overheads,they just have to buy from the garage hunters,liquidation specialist and store returns peddlers and take their chances.
posted on December 7, 2001 12:56:09 PM
NEW means NEW. It's very simple. Items not sold in their original packaging need to be properly represented and identified in the auction. Period.
posted on December 7, 2001 01:14:44 PM
I sometimes will list an item and picture a part that I cannot legally sell. I ALWAYS mention in the auction that a part is not included in the sale .... and tell them where to buy that part.
I think picturing the box makes you think you get the box with the cd. Perhaps what you got is a very well produced copy and that is why there was no box?
posted on December 7, 2001 01:15:36 PM
If you have time (and nothing else to do)
check out this thread. Its kind of along the same vein as what you have happening to you.
posted on December 7, 2001 01:45:28 PM
Just wanted to add my opinion--
To me "new" would mean new in unopened box too, unless this was disclosed in the ad which of course it wasn't.
Becky's idea was a good one. Another place that will have the equiptment to seal it for you would be a printers/printing company.
I'm sorry that the seller did not disclose the info to you.
posted on December 7, 2001 02:35:04 PM
New Simply means unused never used it does not always mean its seal and in a box not even from a store.
IT's even posible that the seller didnt show a picture of the box but in fact pulled the art work from inside the jewel case and scaned it in many cases the art work resembles the box very nearly .
How ever when I list a new Item in an auction like this I state new not used "unsealed".
The item will work no better or worse because it lacks a box or plastic wrap. you get the benifit of a new Item with out all the cardboard bulk to clog up your trash can.
posted on December 7, 2001 03:17:38 PM
That a CD tends not to show visible wear from normal useage does not make a used CD new. That even the most honest of sellers can make mistakes does not change the fact that this case description sounds like deliberate misrepresentation of a sort which is very common on ebaY.
posted on December 7, 2001 08:01:31 PM
I have finally heard from this Seller who now volunteers that he couldn't send the box because it was smashed. Uh huh. I get it now, he's selling distressed merchandise!
He further directed me to his small print to "images used may be representative of product instead of the exact product photo".
I can only imagine what his definition of "representative" is, judging by his "New" definition. If it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, he could still send a goose and be within his TOS.
Is ebay degenerating to the point where you can't believe the words or trust the pictures in the auction and have to ask what you will be receiving if you win?
He firmly stands behind his auction as being "accurately and correctly described" and is sorry I'm disappointed. This item is "New" he says, "because it has never been installed, registered, or in any other way used". Prove it. I received no registration card.
I don't give out many negative feedbacks but I will probably give it out after my son loads this thing and finds out if it even works. I feel potential buyers should be warned to ask this guy just what you will get when you bid on one of his auctions.
As icing on the cake, I asked him what the 90 cent Delivery Confirmation charge was, that he mentioned in his EOA notice. He charges a 50 cent "handling" fee to fill out the DC receipt, which is your address. Give me a break! Gosh, maybe I should tell him he could be doing DC online and he could pocket all 90 cents! Hey, BTO, if you dumpster dive again, could you find me a box for this game? I'll tell you how you could make 90 cents more on every auction!!
posted on December 7, 2001 08:38:39 PM
Jordan0311,
Did you receive an installation code for the software? As a computer tech... I'm well aware that most software must have some sort of installation code before the software will even work (Microsoft is notorious for this). One way to find out if the software IS indeed new... is to contact the software manufacturer with the installation code and find out if the software has ever been registered with that code. If it HAS already been registered... you know for sure that it is NOT new.
On the other hand... it COULD very well be new software. Software boxes can easily be damaged in shipments. The software vendors are making it more and more difficult for resellers to return software now. It is possible that the seller got stuck with a damaged-box copy and sold it as clearance on eBay (in fact I've got a few that I plan to do that with... of course I will give complete details in my description). The jewel case could have been opened to inspect the CD for any damage. The only big questionable thing is why you didn't receive a registration card. Of course, depending on the software... it could have not come with one. A lot of software manufacturers try to encourage registration on-line.... especially if this game is intended for network-gaming.
Bottom line... whether you like it or not... it does seem like the seller included everything he stated in his auction. He also did give a disclaimer on the photograph. Whenever there are doubts like that... you should ask the seller questions before bidding. Unless you can prove without a doubt that the software is NOT new (like contacting the software co. with a registration code) I do not believe you should leave this seller a negative. Perhaps a nuetral to the effect of a misleading photograph... but certainly not a negative.
posted on December 7, 2001 08:55:14 PM
dear buyer,
so you finally realise he is selling distressed merchandise.
he has sold many copies and many cd and the pciture is taken from a commercial.
like i said,most good retailers cannot sell on ebay as they cannot compete with distressed merchandise,as long as SUCKER BIDDER wants something cheap and good,then this is what you will get today and tomorrow.
wise up,either take the lump or go to a regular store and pay regular price,bottom fishing has nasty consequence.
if you really want something mint in box,yahoo shopping,amzn szhops have plenty of new mint in box items waiting for you,it is you who choose to dumpster dive.
posted on December 8, 2001 06:08:17 AM
I'm afraid I have to agree. The ad stated "new CD in jewel case" and there was a disclaimer about the box in the photo. It's been my experience that buyers who complain about "fine print" often didn't read the ad. (For example, I've had large, bold print called fine print by a couple of cusotmers.)
There is a world of difference between NEW and NEW RETAIL. Even retail can be closeout, liquidation, etc. If you want brand new, latest version, in a sealed retail box, and SWAK, then truck on over to CompUSA and buy one.
I also wish it meant that it wasn't in the collectibles section either. It also means that it hasn't been used. 