posted on January 31, 2002 02:20:33 PM new
I need some help here from you guys. I have a bidder that just won an auction. He has "0" as a feedback rating. The auction is for a "used" DVD. After the auction is over, and he has been declared the winner and I have sent him the WBN, I get an e-mail from him that says, "I won your auction, what kinda shape is the DVD in, can I pay by paypal?" Well, I had about 20 DVD's that all closed at the same time. I reply back that I need a auction#, or title of DVD to answer his question. He reply's back "I'm sorry.... I hate when buyers do that to me all the time"... The guys has 0 as a rating, and "buyers do it to him all the time? Doesn't that indicate two seperate sign on's?
That's when I start thinking, what is going on. He gives me the auction #, then asks me "is the DVD is new or used, and if it's widescreen, cause if it's not widescreen, he doesn't want it". I reply back that the auction is for a used DVD (which it clearly stated in two places in my auction description and title) and that it is widescreen.
He then immediately reply's back "thanks, let me know what paypal account to sent the money too. Oh, you did say the DVD was in Mint condition right, cause if it's not, I don't want it".
Now I know something is not right. I reply back to him saying that the DVD is used, and I have not personally watched it, but it has no scratches on the DVD. You can send paypal payment to me at [email protected]. He sends the paypal payment (and rounds the total down to $14 from $14.12 without asking and don't get me started on what that does after paypal takes their big cut out of it), but requests that I send the DVD to a different address than his paypal account lists. Then, 15 minutes after I get confirmation that he has sent payment, I get another e-mail from him asking me to "check my e-mail, and reply back that I can ship it to that to other address". The "other" address is to a University Box #. 15 more minutes go by, and I get another e-mail from him that says
(and I am quoting) "Hey can you e-mail me back. you got my money. now when and where are you going to ship my DVD" Now I know I was very fast and replied within minutes to the first few e-mails, but then I started seeing where this was going, so I wanted to step back, and gather all my info before I responded again.
I have not shipped the item yet, I was going to do that in the morning. I need some help from you more experienced sellers before I do anything. Should I refuse to send it to the "other" address I have never had any trouble from paypal, but I have heard horror story's, and frankly... betty lou's situation has me gun-shy. I know it's only $14 but....
posted on January 31, 2002 02:33:35 PM new
I have in the past informed the users that PayPal REQUIRES me to ship to the registered PayPal address and that you will be shipping it there.
I also would wait for him to pay the additional 12 cents -- and explain that if he pays via paypal he must send you 50 cents total to cover the second PayPal fee and the 12 cents.
I've had many bidder underpay with PayPal (because they estimated their own insurance fees or something) and I've made them pay the second PayPal fee. Obviously I cannot make them pay the first one, but I am not going to eat the second one...especially when they owe me 40 cents. PayPal would take 31-32 cents of that and I'd net 8 or 9. Sorry, no way. If they make they mistake then they get to pay.
I do however, offer them a chance to get a refund for the insurance if they like. Their choice.
If the customer is nice, then I wouldn't say a word. But when they are pushy like yours is, then you've got to dot every I and cross every T on your end.
posted on January 31, 2002 02:35:54 PM new
Have you accepted the payment? If not, I would deny the payment and tell him that he didn't send the required amount and that in order to protect yourself as a seller you must send the package to a confirmed address on the paypal account. If he refuses, then neg, FVF and block. This whole thing sounds very very fishy
http://www.ezinkjetstore.com
posted on January 31, 2002 02:39:12 PM new
I have not accepted payment yet. I wanted to get more advise from you guys before I do anything. I will just sit back and listen to everyone, and then make a decesion.
I agree.... Something stinks, and this is not Denmark.
posted on January 31, 2002 02:44:09 PM new
Well, now that PayPal payments can be refunded, then I would definitely do that (avoids the additional payment charges) and make him pay you the correct amount. See what he does on that first.
Then if he does pay it, just ship to the PayPal address and explain to him after the fact that that is where it is going per PayPal rules. Never had a complaint on that front.
posted on January 31, 2002 04:08:27 PM new
Count me in on the side of caution.
If you have not accepted payment, VERY POLITELY inform your winner that the amount he sent and the amount you billed are different. You cannot complete the transaction because of this accounting error. The winner should cancel the transaction and start it over with the correct amount.
You must strongly insist that shipping is only to a verified Paypal address, that is your ToS.
(The second address is probably either a parent or a friend. Either way, that person isn't supposed to get the DVD.)
posted on January 31, 2002 04:34:50 PM new
I don't think that Paypal refund button is available yet. I actually believe it might be tomorrow. Anyway, I received a payment today that was sent to my PayPal id in error. I had to refund minus fees.
posted on January 31, 2002 04:45:30 PM new
Yuck, the above advice is good. Frankly, he'd not survive the terms which is for full payment. I'd refund the money and file for credit (as mutually agreed upon) and relist. And blacklist him before another minute goes by. Eating a listing fee for this would be more than worth it.
There's a very good chance that this guy will neg you no matter what you do.
posted on January 31, 2002 04:50:35 PM newBIG SURPRISE but the PayPal REFUND button is NOT available to those who have a business or premier account! I found that little tidbit this morning while looking forever on the site for how to refund someone a double payment. I have been a PayPal advocate thus far but this was NOT good news to me.
posted on January 31, 2002 04:56:23 PM new
Are you serious??
What sense does this policy change make then??
Refund Button
Notice Date: January 17, 2002
Effective Date: January 31, 2002
Due to popular demand, PayPal members will be able to refund all payments received by their PayPal account. The refund button will be available for the first five days after a payment is sent. If the transaction is refunded, all transaction fees will be refunded and the payment will be reversed.
posted on January 31, 2002 05:39:04 PM new
You shoudn't have responded to his question about the condition and version, if he pays right away he'll know the condition and version within a week. After 7 days of waiting for his payment I would then void his sale and leave negative feedback.
As you can see, my suggestion would have saved this additional aggravation. Problem bidders give warning cries which gradually grow stronger. Time is now to cut this sick goose loose. Tell him the sale is void for your (meaning you) best interest; file a fvf and no feedback. Since you haven't accepted his payment you're out no pp fees.
posted on January 31, 2002 06:14:15 PM new
Yeah, I would not accept the payment, and tell him that it seems that the DVD is not what he is looking for, so ask him to mutually decide to void the transaction. It seems a much better route to go, this guy seems like trouble...
posted on January 31, 2002 06:28:14 PM new
I would not accept payment, tell him to send you the proper amount and mail it to the verified PayPal address. I can smell chargeback on this one. He will probably watch it once, copy it and send it back. Then I would report to PayPal that he does not use his verified address. I think PayPal frowns on that. If the item is insured, and signed for then to the other address is okay, but other than that I wouldn't mail it. Good Luck
posted on February 1, 2002 05:17:12 AM new
I won't admit to making a mistake, just that things have changed at PayPal this morning. The refund buttons appears on my premier account page and, when checking the FAQ section regarding refunds, it has totally been changed. Guess they were waiting until the first of the month and I had to be the one to check on the last day of the previous month.
posted on February 1, 2002 07:03:02 AM new
Well, the guy has agreed to accept the DVD at his verified address. He must be watching this message board, cause his attitude has changed dramatically. I feel better about the transaction, but something tells me I might have trouble. I think I am going to ship it with insurance and delivery confirmation (this will have to be at my expense, since he did not request it). I still think it would be worth it. I have no neg feedback, but I know it is coming someday.
I see other topics going on right now about the feedback issue, but something tells me I should hold feedback. I know this buyer has 0 feedback (at least on this user name he does), but he is not a "newbie". You can tell by the not only what he says, but how he says it.
posted on February 1, 2002 09:54:17 AM new
I know I'm coming late to this, but I did want to speak up about one issue... that of shipping to an address that isn't verified by Paypal. There are a lot of things that are unnerving about this transaction, I agree -- but there are a lot of perfectly reputable and trustworthy people who don't have things sent to their "verified" address.
I know, because I'm one of them. I have a PO Box specifically to receive packages, because it's more secure. In the 400+ auctions I've won, few sellers have even cared that I use a non-verified address, even during the period where Paypal would only allow you to enter alternate addresses in the notes field.
Of course, sellers can set the terms they're comfortable with. But if a seller has a policy that they only ship to verified Paypal addresses, then they'd better state that in their terms up front (which I always read.) If they say they require shipment to a Paypal verified address, I will usually pass unless it's something I really want.
However, if they notify me of such a policy after the auction ends, then we've got a major problem. At the very least, the seller will have to wait for a money order, and even then I'd consider that they were violating their own terms because as a rule, I only bid on auctions where electronic payment is a possibility.
posted on February 1, 2002 10:04:31 AM new
Fortunately, I wouldn't tell you.
I would just protect myself and ship to the PayPal verified address and then let you know AFTER the item ships.
It's a rule on PayPal and you should already be aware of it as a PayPal member (and technically you are aware of it). There would be no need to mention it in the auction because it's a "given". Only EXCEPTIONS to the rule need to be noted -- and this a seller shipping to a non-verified address would be clearly an exception.
As for them "violating their own rule" this makes no sense. They are making electronic payment a possibility. It's YOUR, the BUYER'S, caveat to their terms that is ruling out electronic payment FOR YOU and YOU only.
[ edited by peiklk on Feb 1, 2002 10:07 AM ]
posted on February 1, 2002 10:06:40 AM new
I would just email him back saying that Paypal requires that you send only to the confirmed address on file and if thats a problem that you are more then happy to refund his money minus the paypal charge you already incurred.
posted on February 1, 2002 10:26:45 AM new
I agree with katmommy. there are far too many problems with this transaction. You have done your part. Just keep you kool, ask for more money to cover what he did not send, lus adittional expense, and send it to the confirmed adress. do nothing till he send more money
posted on February 1, 2002 11:01:31 AM new
I agree with katmommy, however he has already agreed for shipment to go to his verified address. I think I am going to go ahead with the transaction, ship the item to the verified address, and take my chances. His attitude has already changed trmendously in the last few e-mails. I don't know if he realized what he was saying, or if I took it wrong. You know how words on paper can always sound two different ways.
posted on February 1, 2002 01:57:45 PM new
PEILK, you wouldn't "just ship to my confirmed address" because Paypal wouldn't give it to you. They only give the address specified by the buyer, or no address if that button is checked. (obviously it's not a "given" or one of those hundreds of sellers would have mentioned it.)
And everyone - it is NOT true that Paypal requires shipment to a confirmed address. They even now include my "unconfirmed" address (which, by the way, went through the same verification process as my home address, before the billing-address requirement was instituted) as an option in the drop-down box.
Shipping to a verified address is one of the requirements ONLY if a seller wants to qualify for Paypal's seller protection plan. Just as paying for insurance is a requirement if the seller wants protection against postal-service loss. In either case, if the seller wants to avail themselves of these protections at the bidder's expense, they have a duty to tell the bidder before they place a bid. It's a factor in my bidding decisions.
And I think I better explain what I mean by "at the bidder's expense." In this case, the expense to me is the very real risk (near-certainty) that the package will never reach me. The only address Paypal will treat as "confirmed" is the address on your credit-card billing statement.
That's my home address. But my house on a city street with lots of foot traffic. My mail comes through a letter slot in the door. Anything bigger than a fat envelope is left on the stoop, where it can be rained on, stepped on, or made off with. I have a PO box for packages because I must.
The last time I raised this issue (it's one of the few I worry about, I mostly visit this board to read the stories) people have glibly informed me that I should just change my billing address to my PO box. Assuming there were any good reason to do that, I still couldn't - my cc account is tied to all my other accounts, including my mortgage. When Paypal first instituted the billing-address requirement for confirmation, I asked my bank about the ramifications of moving my address, and they told me that if I moved one, I'd have to move them all - and put myself at risk for a interest-rate review on my mortgage. (which is based on my living in the house.) I'd win, of course, but it would be a hassle. Credit scores are also based on length of residence, which makes it a bad idea to switch addresses unless you absolutely have to. And you have NO defense against losing points on your score.
So what are people in my situation supposed to do?
[ edited by msincognito on Feb 1, 2002 02:01 PM ]
