posted on February 21, 2002 10:09:52 AM
http://aolpf5.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?dist=aolpf&siteid=aolpf&guid={F2B4F9CE-72A7-43F9-AA46-0C9CAD23F3D7}
Time will tell but little eBay/Half.com has done results in anything but less choices available to sellers, a greater share of proceeds going to them and a generally more difficult marketplace for small independent sellers to operate profitability.
I've sold at a number of Flea Markets over the years and, at other times, have both rented space for my own businesses and leased space to businesses.
While not partnerships in the legal sense, I've always felt there were "partnerships" aspects to the landlord - tenant relationship in many transactions for commercial space and, usually, mutual cooperation among all parties involved to better the business environment.
At Flea Markets I've never experienced the owners restricting the services I used to process credit cards, continually expanding into profitable portions of the marketplace by duplicating product offerings of successful vendors, limiting my ability to choose staff or the services I use to improve my presentation and operations, progressively diminished management's availability and response to vendors needs for assistance in dealing with immediate concerns or operational problems, completely closing vendors booths without explanation or prompt recourse, try to prevent all ongoing contact or outside transactions between vendors and customers or any of the long list of other vendor negative practices that eBay/Half.com have engaged in.
When I encountered any of these type of actions/attitudes I looked for alternative options. If none existed I've
tried to support them being started. I prefer partner-like business relationships where we are attempting to work together to mutually expand our profitability and not where they are always trying to get more of the profits at my expense.
Life is not always fair and it's a tough world out there in business but mutual respect and integrity can go a long way towards making things better. Absence of these qualities in partners is worth avoiding whenever practical or possible.
There are always inherent struggles and conflicts between landlords and tenants, management and labor, governments and their populations/subjects and, on a smaller scale, between neighbors or family members.
They can't be avoided but how they are resolved is important. Power has responsabilities and when people believe it is misused corrections take place.
I would like eBay to prosper and grow but not at the expense of myself or any of the other tens of thousands of individuals that have contributed to it's success.
I have no idea how or in what time frame things will change but when people get pushed too far they have always, eventually, pushed back.
posted on February 21, 2002 10:20:58 AM
eBay had stake in this company before, so I wouldn't worry to much about drastic changes. In many cases, the repurchase will be good news for eBay buyers & sellers, as eBay will push to further integrate the eBay Payments feature, to a greater extent, into the eBay buying and selling experience. They will also be exploring payment acceptance outside of the eBay environment for growth.
The online payment sector is intriguing and there is a great deal of business that is being done with these online services. I have shares in both eBay and Paypal and one, if not both, should be able to provide sustained growth into the future.
posted on February 21, 2002 10:37:55 AM
Further integrating BillPoint into the eBay environment is anything but good news. eBay would love to exert the control it has over Half com on eBay. Which would be an unmitigated disaster for Paypal.
I don't know about others, but I generate 30-40% of sales from my customers outside of eBay. I have also developed direct purchase relationships for supplies with sellers on eBay, and thereby get the products cheaper. For many products, I don't look at eBay as a place to buy items, I look at eBay as a place to find sellers to buy direct from them.
I think the reason eBay bought out WF's remaining stake is to make unobstructed changes in the service to better go head to head with Paypal.
posted on February 21, 2002 11:09:29 AM
"Despite the enthusiasm about PayPal, analysts said eBay isn't likely to relinquish its top spot in the auction area."
What did they mean by the above statement? That can't mean top spot in auction payments because Paypal already has that. Has anybody heard anything about Paypal starting an auction site? I'll reverse my short position if that happens.
If Paypal were to start an auction site with all payments through their service, I would buy/sell there in a second. Imagine - no deadbeats or greater control over deadbeats, instant payments. Buyers would have greater security. I'm game, when does it start ?
I haven't heard anything about a Paypal auction sight for a while. A way's back an auction site that had a striking resemblence to Paypal's look and feel popped up and payments for items purchased were facilitated via Paypal. The site, however, was unauthrorized and I believe Paypal had it shut down shortly after being introduced. Anyone else remember this?
The idea of a Paypal website is interesting and they would probably be able to institute an auction site with a reasonable amount of success. I'm not sure if they would be able to give eBay a run for the money, but they would surely be able to help themselves out and reduce their overall business risk. As you've pointed out in previous posts, Paypal has a great number of their eggs in the eBay basket and it certainly would be a good idea for Paypal to diversify into complimentary businesses with their payment service.
posted on February 21, 2002 11:37:29 AM
I think Paypal could give eBay a run for its money with an auction site. Paypal could cherry pick the best buyers and sellers from eBay. eBay could be left with those that do not have the finanacial ability or desire to use credit card like services or otherwise paying through Paypal.
BTW- My short program kicked in today, when I checked last, $2.75 more until my first cover kicks in. I had allowed 60 days to complete, but it looks as though it may be 20 or 30 days or less.
posted on February 21, 2002 11:40:34 AM
I would jump at the chance to list on a PayPal auction site but I'm not unaware of their history of customer service problems.
My long term hope is for a seller owned non-profit portal/gateway and shared space where we can promote all of our marketing efforts including all auction listings at every site, websites, classified lists, B&M locations and all other aspects of our business activities.
Cooperative efforts with commercial businesses like PayPal and AW as well as other parallel non-profits and organizations like OAUA could possibly blend to create a strong marketing location while still providing vendors with some balance in shared power and control.
I don't think future sites have to replace eBay anymore than Ford has to replace Chevy. Just a strong presence in the marketplace and a competative attitude benefits the buying public and businesses in the long run. Some fail but many grow stronger and expand to evertones benefit.
Replacing one dictator with another potential dictator isn't always a step in the right direction but trying to establish freedom and democracy has it's own problems and is often more than people are willing to expend the effort to accomplish.
I like the idea of a benevolent dictator but never having enjoyed being part of a ruling family I've grown accustomed to enjoying the competitive marketplace, freedom of choice and the ensuring faults and personal obligations.
[ edited by reston_ray on Feb 21, 2002 11:51 AM ]
posted on February 21, 2002 12:15:13 PM
<At Flea Markets I've never experienced the owners restricting the services I used to process credit cards,>
I don't see how eBay could require us to clear our end of auction e-mails with them.
<<continually expanding into profitable portions of the marketplace by duplicating product offerings of successful vendors,>>
This happens a lot at the flea markets I have been at. It used to be only sellers sold snackes. Now flea market management compete with them.
<limiting my ability to choose staff>
I did not have to clear my mother with eBay for her to help me get auctions done.
<or the services I use to improve my presentation and operations,>
I have occasionally switched programs I use to get my auctions ready and I never had to get permission from eBay to install these on my computer.
<progressively diminished management's availability and response to vendors needs for assistance in dealing with immediate concerns or operational problems,>
I have found this to be hit and miss at flea markets. Some are fantastic. Others are non-existant.
<eBay would love to exert the control it has over Half com on eBay>
Question: Would this hinder their claim that they are "just a venue?" If so, I think they would refrain from this.
<I don't know about others, but I generate 30-40% of sales from my customers outside of eBay. I have also developed direct purchase relationships for supplies with sellers on eBay, and thereby get the products cheaper.>
Me, too. It costs 3-5% of eBay sales to find customers. This is a fantastic bargain. 99.999% of brick and mortar shops pay much more.
posted on February 21, 2002 12:58:45 PM
computerboy- I'm not in the money yet, still $1.98 to go last I checked, $2.02 up and I get the "put up" call from my brokerage. The interesting thing is that I am borrowing "your shares" at less capital costs to myself than if I had bought into the IPO. I control the shares at a fraction of the cost of actually buying them. Always "use other peoples money - OPM" when you can.
But if you think Paypal is going up you could go long at a fraction of actually buying the stock.
I have it set up so that the cover at $13 will meet 60 days of potential costs and a decent profit, $10 cover makes a really good profit, and $7 cover makes an obscene profit.
The real deal in shorting is knowing when to stick to your guns and when to quit, and a strong stomach.
It will be tempting to bail completely out at $13, but I think the momentum that will get it to $13 will also get it to $10 and $10 will get it to $7 - and it probably will happen in a short period. I have 60 days to find out, and if it doesn't get back to $16 I still make profit, minus the brokage interest charges.
The nice thing about internet brokerage is that I can act faster. If I see a bounce after $13, I can stil opt to cover it all bail out at that point.
posted on February 21, 2002 01:16:23 PM
I should also mention- going short or long is not all good - there are risks and expenses that you don't have with actually buying the stock - but if you believe it is going down, you wouldn't buy it anyway - so how else can you make money on a stock going down?
The interesting thing is the leverage ability. But that is also part of the risk.
I like the possibilities. When I cover at $13, my cash account goes up farther, and I can short even more shares- if I dare, the same thing happens at $10.
If the shares go up to $17, I either have to cover and lose $1 a share plus interest or put up more cash reserves and let it ride.
I can also go in at any point under $16 and cover, I could cover today and take less profit. I think the stock got a little bump late today to go back over $15 as shorts were covering- being a low volume day, covering is usually the case for prices going up. Must have been covering- it dropped 27 cents again.
posted on February 21, 2002 02:15:48 PM
It's an interesting position and all it will take is another small bit of bad publicity or another State rattling its regulation for the stock to dip. These are volitile times and these extreme price fluctuations are great for those who have the right timing.
The shares I have remaining in Paypal are in for the long haul, just in case something good happens to the company. I still thing that Paypal can make the improvements necessary to grow and become profitable. There's also the possibility that a large financial instituion may want to buy Paypal for it's strong online market penetration and customer list.
With the 54% first day gain, I wasn't about to let it ride. I take my scores when they present themselves, but am not a maverick that tries rolling hard 8's.
I had similar luck with eBay a few year's back. I had shares right from the get go and sold a good chunk near its all time high of 300. It was unbelieveable, but not something to happen twice in my lifetime. I still have some eBay stock that is also in for the longhaul, so between Paypal and eBay, there's bound to be an online payment winner between the two. Who knows? Maybe both.
Best of luck on your position. I hope you do well.
posted on February 21, 2002 02:31:35 PMI don't see how eBay could require us to clear our end of auction e-mails with them.
Before eBay purchased TradeOut.com, TradeOut instituted a double-blind web mail system where all e-mails between buyer and seller went through their system. All e-mails were monitored and any attempt at direct selling got you suspended. eBay could very easily institute a similar system since they have a "web mail" system in place. It is a very real possibility.
posted on February 21, 2002 04:42:36 PM
<Before eBay purchased TradeOut.com, TradeOut instituted a double-blind web mail system where all e-mails between buyer and seller went through their system. All e-mails were monitored and any attempt at direct selling got you suspended. eBay could very easily institute a similar system since they have a "web mail" system in place. It is a very real possibility.>
Actually, I have no problem with this. I don't feel I have a constitutional right to force ebay to start a web site for me to get customers.
However, after the 1st purchase, we are free to sell directly.
That seems fair to me.
I know I get frustrated when bidders retract their bid because they are offered a better deal by someone else.
posted on February 21, 2002 06:22:34 PM
eBay, if they play their cards right, can bury PayPal. The only reason for PayPal is off eBay transactions, something I don't have much use for right now.
posted on February 21, 2002 09:16:05 PM
if billpoint succeeds in taking market share from paypal,it better learn fast how to handle complaints and fraud ,billpoint seems too layback to know any better.
all the bitching and moaning about paypal will just migrate over to billpoint.
this board will have threads of billpoint is evil,class action suit against billpoint,billpoint did me wrong,down with billpoint,etc/
BIDVILLE was supposed to be the auction site for paypal payment ,dont know why it did not pan out??
i like bidville format,too bad it does not have good merchandise.
there is life of paypal outside ebay,there are over 16,000 shops on yahoo and many accept paypal,there are also some amzn z shops which accept paypal.
now,lets see what c2it is going to do to move from #3 to #2.
or is it #10??
posted on February 23, 2002 09:57:30 AM
With Wells Fargo out of the picture, I would like to know if eBay has money transmission licenses for all the states. PayPal has only recently applied for many of them, as they are new laws.
posted on February 23, 2002 10:04:55 AM
Oh gee no matter how much people cried about how much they disliked paypal it seems that there IPO has brought online day tradeing back into fashion.
