posted on March 19, 2002 08:23:32 PM new
What does half.com do if I report a book CLEARLY listed in the wrong condition category. This is unfair and frustrating to sellers who play by half.com's rules. For example, seller photo_rob lists the book Andorra by Peter Cameron (ISBN 0-37410-5057) in Like New condition, and then he says "original owner's name in flyleaf." That clearly violates the definition of "Like New" condition.
I am reporting this to half.com and will let you know their response. In the meantime I would like the benefit of others' knowledge and opinions.
posted on March 19, 2002 10:37:48 PM new
I think you have WAY too much time on your hands. Like new is quite subjective, maybe it is like new except for the name printed in the book.
posted on March 20, 2002 06:26:10 AM new
Whoa, you guys are hard.
Of course my interest in half.com users who cheat on their condition descriptions is that I have the same books listed. It's the same situation as you finding a competing ebay seller who was describing his item falsely. You wouldn't like that, would you?
Half explicitly states that "like new" means that it could easily be mistaken for brand new. It also means no writing.
Don't you think that action should be taken against rule violators who hurt your business??
posted on March 20, 2002 06:44:47 AM new
I would suspect that alot of people don't bother to pay attention to what the grading policy is.
This is right off of their website.
I think you should play by the rules.
Half.com Policies » Quality Rating
Books
Like New - Shiny, undamaged cover, dust jacket included for hard covers, no missing pages, all pages undamaged (no creases or tears), no underlining/highlighting of text, no damage to binding, no writing in margins (Is or could easily be mistaken for brand new)
Very Good - Doesn't look brand new but has no easily noticeable damage to the cover, dust jacket included for hard covers, no missing pages, all pages undamaged (no creases or tears), no underlining/highlighting of text, no writing in margins, very minimal identifying marks inside cover, very minimal wear and tear (You would give it to a good friend as a gift)
Good - Very minimal damage to the cover (no holes or tears, only minimal scuff marks), dust jacket not necessarily included, minimal wear to binding, majority of pages undamaged (minimal creases or tears), minimal pencil underlining of text, no highlighting of text, no writing in margins, no missing pages (You would use it yourself, but wouldn't necessarily give it as a gift)
Acceptable - Some damage to the cover but integrity still intact, binding slightly damaged but integrity still intact, possible writing in margins, possible underlining and highlighting of text, no missing pages (Item beaten up a bit but it works)
Unacceptable - We won't sell it! Major damage (holes and/or tears) to a significant number of pages and/or to cover, missing or stained pages, book cover is missing, book is not readable.
Cleaning up the world, One closet at a time!
[ edited by connorscorner on Mar 20, 2002 06:46 AM ]
posted on March 20, 2002 06:49:30 AM new
If the only defect is the owner's name on the flyleaf, then according to the definition provided I would also say the book qualifies as "like new." Let us know what Half.com says.
posted on March 20, 2002 07:00:14 AM new
Sure we should all play by the rules and follow Half.com listing guidelines.
Pelorus, what if someone thought your Calvin Trilling book rated Very Good, 'gently read once' couldn't possibly mean that it was really Very Good, and this person reported you to Half.com because *in their opinion* you violated the rating rules? Would you think that is fair or appropriate? Would you want Half.com to contact you and make you deal with someone else's interpretation of your grading? I bet you'd be pretty angry if that happened.
personally, I think Half.com DOESN'T CARE. Doesn't make it right, but I think that's the unfortunate reality. Half's position seems to be that feedback reflects how accurate you were in your rating.
posted on March 20, 2002 07:35:22 AM new
If the sellers states that there is a name written in it..potential buyers see that statement and it is the buyers choice to buy or not buy. The seller isnt misrepresenting anything in my opinion.
MEOW
posted on March 20, 2002 07:56:53 AM new
Since the book does not technically meet the printed guidelines for Like New, I would be interested to know what half.com customer service had to say about it.
There are numerous rule violations on half.com, including listing paperbacks in hard cover categories, and videos in the dvd category. The reason is most likely there is no corresponding listing in paperbacks or videos to use.
Still it is a violation of their TOS and I am curious if they enforce them. My feeling is they don't.
Even misgraded and misrepresented items are not a problem unless "more than two grades off". So a "Like New" may actually only meet their definition of "Very Good" or "Good" and they are ok with the deception. If is only meets "Acceptable" then you get the refund.
Of course, half.com is an ebay company which explains a lot. Can you say "arbitrary and capricious"?
posted on March 20, 2002 08:57:32 AM new
pelorus wasn't picking on ya I figured you had the same book, and a concern
Since I don't do half, and only ebay, this wouldn't concern me, if I sold books. Because people bid, not buy outright like on half (well of course if you have Buy it Now on it) so there is a big difference.
If another seller had the exact same thing as me, and described it wrong, I believe I would leave it alone, only because I start everything at $1 no reserve, and I don't have time to look up everything I put up.
posted on March 20, 2002 09:41:12 AM new
People who buy like new are, most of the time, expecting a book they can give to someone as a gift. People don't seem to make the connection with the adjective, they see "new". A book with an owner's name is very good not like new. I consider remainders the same way. Granted the functional difference is nothing, but appearances count to many buyers. I sell a lot of very good rated books and most people say they are like new. Makes a happy customer to rate conservatively.
posted on March 20, 2002 09:48:44 AM new
I think it's interesting that Half actually has there own criteria for rating a book even if it isn't followed by everyone.
I think it's a very good idea (at least in theory).
I am also interested to see if they have a policy for dealing with items that don't meet their own stated guidelines.
Although I don't sell books and rarely buy them online (I still prefer going to the bookstore), I can see how rating conservatively could earn you kuddos from your buyers! Sounds like a good way to conduct business.
posted on March 20, 2002 05:13:24 PM new
I doubt the skeleton staff that Half has could handle the number of badly rated books posted on their site.
I see four bad Half practices: bad ratings, puting softcovers in a hardcover listing when there's the choice to list under a softcover edition, cutting so many prices below 1.00, and the ever present crummy packaging used by so many sellers. All of these kill the business for all sellers much more than anything Half does. If the sellers don't act professionally, there's no chance that we can expect Half to do so and give us our due.
posted on March 20, 2002 05:39:09 PM new
EVERYONE seems to lie about the condition of items on HALF. Do you want a good laugh? Search for any popular VHS movie and look at all of the former BlockBuster rental copies in the "Like New" category. Amazing.
posted on March 20, 2002 05:39:11 PM new
I think the statement "like new" is overrated. It is either new or it is not. So I would think that in the descriptions all blemishes must be described as they should be on ebay. I have never like the words "like new" so I use good condition. I just looked up the word like. It has 8 definations with many definations within those 8. One that stands out to me says the same or nearly the same (as in appearance,character or quantity). so the only thing wrong with the description of the book is the signature so doesn't that fall into the catagory of "like new". I have never been to half.com. Why would anyone sell on half.com when they have ebay? Is it because they can get higher prices. In my estimation I think pelorus is nit picking and I would just leave it go. If he can point out the error in the description then I am sure others can to.
I hate to disagree with you but I have sold thousands of books on Half.com and have often come across books that in pristine condition except for the original owner's name in flyleaf. Sometimes the name appears in writing or it is stamped, sometimes it is even on a label has been applied to the flyleaf. I mean some of these books look like they were never read at all that is how well kept they were by its previous owner.
How else would I describe such a book except for "Like New" except for the original owners name in the fly leaf. I don’t see where or how this would be a violation of Half.com’s policies or rules regarding condition.
Am I supposed to list it as very good or good even though the book may look like it has never been read? I feel if the seller in the case you presented to us said the book was like new which means it is:
“Shiny, undamaged cover, dust jacket included for hard covers, no missing pages, all pages undamaged (no creases or tears), no underlining/highlighting of text, no damage to binding, no writing in margins (Is or could easily be mistaken for brand new)”
and that seller divulges that the previous owners name is written, stamped or there is a label on the flyleaf then that seller is being up front with any potential buyer of the book. There certainly is no fraud or violation to be reported. If I saw such a listing I would be expecting nothing less than a book in excellent condition where it looked like it had hardly been read with no damage or marks on it but there is a persons
name written on the flyleaf. What’s the big deal ???? The seller isn’t misrepresenting anything in my opinion.
It may be a very different story if the seller listed the book as "Like New" and didn’t state that there was a name written on the flyleaf. In that scenario I’d be upset and have good reason to be because I didn’t expect that flaw in the book.
posted on March 21, 2002 10:49:48 AM new
I thank all for your replies to my orig. query. From your responses I conclude:
-- A book with previous owner's name written in it should not be described "like new." It's silly to say a book "could be mistaken as new," when it obviously had a previous owner.
-- As long as the seller includes the writing in his description I can accept that the listing is legit.
Imagine: You wrap up this book and give it to someone as a gift. They open it up. They see the previous owner's name written in it. Some explanation on your part is required about the fact that the book is not new, does it not?
posted on March 21, 2002 11:14:08 AM new
I wasn't going to say anything but...
I sell numerous books just like this every day. I have NEVER in 2600+ sales had a complaint about it..never even a mention..
The Ebay header would read (for example) "Anne Rice HCDJ LASHER like new" and the ad would read... Book is in outstanding and unread condition. The only "damage" I see is the original owners name written inside. Else like new. No creases, marks, rips, broken hinges, or steam damage. Still creeks when you open it."
You are the only person I've ever heard of that calls that "against the rules" or anything other than "BOOK JUST AS DESCRIBED" or sometimes "BOOK EVEN BETTER THAN DESCRIBED"...
posted on March 21, 2002 12:58:47 PM new
Sorry, but LIKE NEW is not the same as IS NEW - Like new connotates that the book is in great shape, but it is pre-owned. Finding someone's name written in the book would not subtract from the description of LIKE NEW - If you want to buy a gift for someone, perhaps you should use amazon.com and buy a brand new book?
posted on March 21, 2002 02:10:49 PM new
One of my former employers had signs prominantly displayed that said "No Surprises" Most buyers don't read the descriptions carefully. And many sellers do not grade carefully either. If a book cannot pass for new in a bookstore, it should be listed as very good. Half is getting a bad reputation among buyers because of amateur hour business practices. Why make it worse for yourself in the long term for a few cents extra profit or to get your listing at the top of the page.
If a whole lot of sellers engage in a bad business practice and never get in trouble for it, what's that mean to you? Certainly not an excuse to follow in their footsteps.
Half says it's wrong and professional practice says it's wrong. Do the right thing.
