posted on March 29, 2002 05:20:04 AM
Have an interesting situation that just cropped up. This is kind of a long story, but I really would like some opinions.
Two years ago, I get an email from someone who after viewing my auctions, went to my website and wanted to purchase two pieces of furniture from me. We negotiated a price for purchasing both items, which with shipping came to about $1500.00.
This person then asked if she could do this on a layaway plan for 3 months. Although, I don't normally do this, after many conversations through Instant Messenger with her (building a little relationship), I agreed to the arrangement. I received the first check promptly ($500.00).
In the meantime before the next month's payment is due, I get two people in my store wanting to purchase one of the items - I tell them it is sold. I don't take their names, as I am positive this is a done deal, from my conversations with her.
When the next payment comes due, I don't receive it. So I email the buyer - no reply. A week later I send another email, no reply again. Finally, I send another email pleading with her to email me and let me know what is going on. This too is also ignored. So I drop it and figure I got stiffed.
A month or so goes by and I finally get an email from this person apologizing because of death in family, bills, etc. I explain that if she had just let me know, I would have understood and either cancelled the arrangement or given her time to complete it. I tell her that I am not heartless and I understand people have bad times. This is while I know she is bidding on auctions on eBay and still not paying me or replying to me.
She asks if we can continue the arrangement, to which I agree, so long as she keeps up her end of the bargain again. She tells me she is selling stuff on eBay and that she will be able to pay me from her sales.
Guess what, no more payments or replies to emails sent? During the past two years, I sell one of the pieces to someone else. Last week I relisted the second piece for a bargain price of $300 (the original discounted price to my mystery buyer was $750.).
When getting ready to do my end of auction notice for this piece, I realize it is my long lost buyer. She has the nerve to bid on this auction after stiffing me for it and the other piece 2 years ago. But, I decide to remain professional.
I sent my usual end of auction notice requesting the address so I can compute shipping and prepare an invoice. To date, after 2 emails, I still have not heard from this person.
I can't believe I am dealing with this again & I can't believe that as nice as I was throughout all of this, that she bid on this auction and STILL is not going to complete the deal.
My dilemma is that if I try to apply for a deadbeat bidder, this person will most likely neg me, which is what I believe her intent was when she bid on the auction. To which, I still can't believe she would do, as I could have been very miserable about this.
My other dilemma is the original $500 she paid for the two pieces she was to have purchased for me. She cost me the probable sale of the pieces I was holding for her & her not ever replying to my requests for payment was inexcusable, considering my attitude towards her situation. I never expressed any anger towards this person - I was always sympathetic to her "alleged" dilemmas. I let it go, as I realized she was having personal problems. I didn't want to cause her any more grief. Now, I feel I am going to be punished for being nice.
I am getting the feeling that she will neg me, saying she already paid me 2 years ago for this item. Which, in essence is untrue, as I offered her a discount for purchasing BOTH items, not just the one and she never completed the transaction, as agreed.
Seeing as how I just received my first negative from another non-paying bidder, I am hesitant to do anything to risk getting another, which I believe she is going to do no matter what at this time.
Would you file for FVF? Would you neg? Would you just let it go? What reply would you give, if the neg comes from her, even without my taking any action against her?
I should also note, that during this time she made this arrangement with me, she was bidding on auctions where apparently she stiffed other sellers. She received several negatives from them. Just recently a Seller intended to give her a neg for non-payment, but accidentally clicked positive - the comments are negative. Also, her feedback rating is higher than mine (300+) versus mine (130+). I am afraid it is a no win situation for me.
Given the circumstances mentioned here, what would you do?
posted on March 29, 2002 06:31:57 AM
I guess I would have one question on this whole situation..... did you refund the $500 to her, or, did she get anything for the $500 she paid you.
I know it was 2 years ago, and thats tooooo long IMO, but I don't know the statues of limitations on deposits.. I would only assume that its run out, and you shouldn't have to return it to her.
From what you say, yes it sounds like she did this, probably just to get back at you, but for what, I'm not sure.
For that amount of money and payment plans, you never got a telephone number from her in all this time?
If not, now that she is your high bidder, you can request it, and it may help to call her.
Since it was off ebay, there is not a thing ebay will do, but yes, she could give you a negative now that it is.
I think I would call, I guess to show you tried to do something to ?
posted on March 29, 2002 06:52:09 AM
I would go ahead and file NPB let her neg you , start working on a good response to her neg
I just got my 4th neg and belive me after you get a few they become less personal and you live with them the key is a good response to the neg and the satisfaction of returning the favor
don't forget to put her on your blocked bidder list
as to the 500 she has paid you proably need to get a legal opion on that as state law varies and is often not logical.
the bar assoc in my state has a referrall program and fro 25.00 they refer you to a lawyer qualified in your problem area nad you get a half hour consulation ,I have gotten advice and several problems of this type for the 25.00 fee
posted on March 29, 2002 07:11:35 AM
This would have been easier for you if you would have had a contract with her to begin with and if she would have been blocked from bidding when you were able to.
You may owe her some of the $500 but you should also be compensated for loss of sale to others during that time. Also maybe some for storage fees for 2 yrs?
mrspock is giving you good advice. I think you need to check the laws in your state to see what your rights are. She may try to sue you or something.
posted on March 29, 2002 08:21:59 AM
I do not think you owe her anything. keep the $500 and let her neg. that is the price of layaway and you id what you could. Reply to her neg. I was upset the first time I got a neg...the person did nto pay me and negged me! But I got over it and my business does just as well.
posted on March 29, 2002 08:26:52 AM
Anyone implying that you have done something wrong in this situation has a screw loose.
You've been greatly inconvenienced and it's cost you time, money and aggrevation. I'd email this obviously irresponsible and inconsiderate individual and would advise them that their recent bid is null and void and that you expect them to stick to the terms and conditions of their original agreement with you on this furniture. If they fail to do so, I'd hang on to their deposit until the transaction is completed. I'd continue to offer the furniture for sale and if it is purchased by another buyer, I'd then send back the $500.00 initial payment and tell her that her failure to comply with your arrangement in a reasonable time frame has voided the offering.
Don't even think about the potential negative feedback. Consider the source and move on about your business. There are many quality eBay sellers on eBay with occassional negative feedback comments. Buyers are up to speed on this, as they know that no matter how good a seller is, you can't avoid running in to an occassional screwball.
We have a feedback rating of around 4,000 and have in the area of 10 negative feedback comments in our profile. I am confident in saying that each one of these negative messages that was left comes from a clueless, inconsiderate, ignorant buyer who was looking to take advantage of a situation or has other personal problems that I cared not to venture into understanding.
posted on March 29, 2002 08:27:49 AM
You've gotten some good advice here. I would just file FVF and wait and see what she does as far as feedback goes. A neg from her isn't going to really hurt sales at all, especially if you are able to respond to it in a calm and factual manner.
Good luck to you.
posted on March 29, 2002 11:21:27 AM
Thanks everyone for your opinions and thoughts.
In regards to the telephone number, in checking over the emails back and forth on this, I do not see a telephone number, so I must have done this all via email. I do have an agreement with her (albeit) email, outlining the terms of her obligation to me. However, nothing was mentioned regarding non payment of the balance.
It is interesting to note that today I checked on her auctions that she is selling, and she has a 10 sentence paragraph explaining that she won't let anyone bid with neg feedback for non-payment (she has 5 of those herself), she expects contact within 3 days & don't bid if you don't intend to pay. She tops it off with "the reason my terms are they way they are is because of all the problems with non-paying bidders on eBay". INCREDIBLE.
I do believe she did this to get back at me - for what, I don't know. If I had done this to a seller, I would have put my tail between my legs and been glad the $500 was the only thing I lost. However, I would never have let myself lose $500 because I was too inconsiderate to contact the seller and explain my situation.
I think at this point, I am better off letting sleeping dogs lie. I did block her from my bidder list (never thought about it before, as I didn't expect to hear from her). If she makes a stink about the $500, I will tell her she can apply it to the original price of the item which was $750.00.
posted on March 29, 2002 12:33:54 PM
"Circumstances where eBay will consider removing feedback.....
The feedback, on its face, has absolutely no connection with eBay, such as feedback related to commercial transactions that were not conducted through eBay. This also includes feedback that contains any reference to another auction service or feedback that advertises the goods or services of someone other than the user for whom the feedback was left."
So my understanding is that if she leaves feedback referring to your off-eBay transaction, they will remove it.
posted on March 29, 2002 01:24:53 PM
You've been impeccable. You own every bit of that money, you do not owe the buyer a thing.
Layaway contracts are not open-ended. A buyer does not have the right to buy something forever if they decide to stop paying on it. It may be that unfortunate or even tragic circumstances caused her to miss her payments, but ultimately that's her problem, not yours. You've already done your best to be accomodating. She dropped the ball, yes? And then bid on it again??? Preposterous!
IMHO You do not need to have any further contact with the buyer. If she does correspond or causes you further problems, send her a polite form letter to the effect of: "Thank you very much for your recent message. Per instructions, we are forwarding any/all correspondence on this matter to eBay Safe Harbor for resolution. Please direct your inquiries to (address). Sincerely, etc." She'll get the hint.
Finally, do not fear the neg - if it happens, live with it -- it won't hurt you, there's nothing "magical" about a perfect record (assuming you have one) and most buyers can spot a moron when they see feedback left by one. You can also: (a) put up a concise feedback response and (b) let eBay know in a short, well-worded message what has happened, being sure to express your appreciation for their help. Chances are 50/50 the neg will be removed and the buyer will be banned anyway.
posted on April 1, 2002 01:02:23 AM
xenainfla
My advice: go through the ususal procedure with payment reminders, etc. Then file NPB as late
as possible. It's not the feedback that gets them thrown out, it is the filed NPB's that get eBay's
attention. With that lady's behaviour it is very likely that she already has some NPB's filed against
her. With any luck she will disappear before she has a chance to neg you.
People like her will ignore your communications and whatever eBay sends them regarding that
item. On top of that she thinks you are a push-over from her previous experience with you.
On the other hand she will probably monitor her feedback closely so she can slam you (and be
the defenseless victim with family problems) later in her comment to feedback.
Remeber: eBay is just a venue! As long as you and the bidder battle each other they will stay
away from that and you will get no help at all.
As soon as they really get involved (which means: give some of their hard-earned fees back)
they get moving.
BKKofaz:
How come you still believe in the eBay-miracle?
Enough of us have already tried to get any kind of support from ebay and have failed miserably! Good luck!
