posted on May 6, 2002 01:08:14 PM
This post is a branch from this discussion. It seems to me, buyers only complain about "excessive" handling because they can see the postage amount stamped on their package. If the post office kept the actual postage hidden, sellers would receive a lot less complaints.
Some items can have a high profit margin from the item price itself. But for low priced items, mass merchandise, or highly competitive products a higher "handling" charge is necessary to make a profit on the total price. If we have inventory, the goal is to at least sell it without losing money.
posted on May 6, 2002 01:30:55 PM
How about this. Shipping is $3 (or whatever). If you want to pay only for postage, but not the associated expenses, please come to my house with an envelope, pack, stamp, and mail the item to yourself. If you would like me to provide an envelope, to pay for postage, to pack the envelope, to pay for the envelope, and to drive to the post office and wait in line, I ask for just $3 to cover all of these.
posted on May 6, 2002 02:31:24 PM
When I first started buying at online auctions, I never really even gave "shipping" a thought.
I was just so amazed at how cheap I could get things AND that I had access to things I couldn't get locally at any price.
It seemed for awhile (a year or so back) that shipping complaints came mostly from buyers who also sold. I just figured that they were the type that thought all sellers should do it the way they did.
Lately, however, I have noticed more and more "buyers", who aren't necessarily "sellers" also, who seem to be taking issue with shipping.
I guess they have become spoiled by sellers who charge "postage only" and anything over that is just absorbed out of the profit. Of course, you have to actually have a "profit" to do that and it seems to be getting harder and harder to make a profit.
Oops! I'm rambling now, sorry... on to my real suggestion:
I think to end this argument once and for all, we need to get together right here at AW and figure out just what is an acceptable shipping charge and what is the correct way to word it in our auctions.
Do we call it "actual postage" or "postage + handling" or "actual shipping" or "shipping and handling" or "shipping + insurance + packaging fees". Well, you get the ideal.
Then, all sellers should charge that and all buyers should pay that.
Whatcha think?????
I'll start off:
I think everyone should ship anything under a pound Priority/Insured/DC. For those that insist on "exact" shipping charge $3.50 + Cost of Insurance + $.40DC or if you just have to have "fixed" ... $7.00 on values to $200. Additional insurance will be added on values over $200.
If you currently sell things that won't fit into one of those nifty USPS Priority boxes and weighs under a pound...you just have to ship it FREE or STOP SELLING IT!!!
posted on May 6, 2002 02:33:57 PM
If you have the need to "hide the shipping label" then you should sell something else. I charge exact shipping, my profit for all the other stuff comes from the sale. I do PROFIT $20.00-$100.00 on each item though, I know that doesn't help the lowball .01 sellers. Why bother selling for $1.00 profit?
posted on May 6, 2002 02:33:57 PM
If you have the need to "hide the shipping label" then you should sell something else. I charge exact shipping, my profit for all the other stuff comes from the sale. I do PROFIT $20.00-$100.00 on each item though, I know that doesn't help the lowball .01 sellers. Why bother selling for $1.00 profit?
posted on May 6, 2002 02:45:14 PMzclone-Is that your GROSS profit or your NET profit????
I have learned from reading here that many people think that if they buy it for $1.00 and sell it for $2.00 they have made $1.00 profit or 100% profit!
posted on May 6, 2002 02:49:46 PM
That is my net profit, after the cost of the item, "handling" blah, blah, blah. $1.00 may be 100% profit but you can't even get a gallon of gas with it.
Charging exact shipping gives the buyer one less possible thing to complain about.
Also, you cannot have a fixed shipping rate based on value...shipping costs are done by weight.
posted on May 6, 2002 02:58:46 PM
Endicia Internet Postage is proposing a "stealth indicia" to the USPS now. This would be a user-defined option -- the 2D postage barcode would be printed as usual, and a series of numbers would print above it. But the postage amount would not be shown in an obvious way if this option was selected.
We are wondering how many folks would value this kind of postage option. Opinions?
posted on May 6, 2002 03:06:05 PM
Naa I wouldn't like hidden postage. I use Endicia.
I'm the idiot who charges exact Priority Shipping.
Hey I quote it wrong sometimes to the buyer, and eat the shipping. And those are the buyers who never leave feedback, which I thought was strange, but, oh well
Just checked my endicia account for how much postage I have used for 1 month: $824.
And in between that, I didn't use endicia, I waited in line and bought postage. So my shipping costs were a lot higher.
luckily I don't quote the wrong shipping often, about 2 in a month.
posted on May 6, 2002 03:12:18 PMAlso, you cannot have a fixed shipping rate based on value...shipping costs are done by weight.
That's why I said under a pound and it had to fit in a Priority box!
I sell jewelry. I can put 10 boxed items in the small priority box and ship it for $3.50 in postage, add $.40 for DC and $3.00 gets you coverage on values to $200. If the value is over that I add the additional insurance. To cover my "materials" I state:
Shipping within the US is by USPS Priority/Insured/DC at a fixed rate of $7.00 on values to $200, items may be combined at $1.00 per additional item up to 10 max. Total package value over $200 requires additional insurance.
Maybe it's because of what I sell, but I have never had one single person complain about my shipping! Maybe I've just been lucky.
posted on May 6, 2002 03:33:17 PM
This entire issue makes no sense to me. If the seller lists the shipping price with all charges, either you bid or you don't. I think what it costs to ship, and the amount they get is irrelevant here. What matters is how much they are asking from you, and what you are willing to pay. I've passsed on many items because of unreasonable charges, and I have not ordered from mail order as well because of unreasonable charges. Unreasonable charges will continue to exist, just like SPAM will continue to exist. If the prices are too high, just don't bid. Eventually, if people actually did that, then the seller might have to readjust their prices...
posted on May 6, 2002 03:37:07 PM
sun818-inventory you already have on hand...and I trust you can't sell? Pass it on to another Ebayer...at a garage sale, no listing fee, no fvf fee, no shipping.
Look, I used to sell items tht I only made $2.00 on and busted my ass to make any kind of profit. Then I found the secret. And i'm sure everyone wants to know what that is. I'll sum it up without giving away my true secret.
Sell items that Wal-mart, K-Mart or whatever doesn't carry. Niche items. Sell items that are not on Ebay. Or atleast not flooded or marked down so low it's not worth it. It takes alot of investigating. What I sell there are only 2 distributors for in all of North America. These items are only found in a few specialty stores across America. My average price for each is $35.00. They sell between $55.00 (opening price) and $155.00.
It's frustrating as heck when you have to compete with other sellers. But, would you rather have to package, address, and carry fifty packages to the post office for $50.00 in profit...or just one package? That was my conclusion for putting forth the effort in finding something that I could profit from. I'm happy charging exact priority shipping. But, I have the profit to do as such. And most others would if they opened their opening price higher to cover their "handling". My opinion...if you want to list cheap and take the risk, you should open the bid at your cost for the item plus your fees plus any handling fee you want, thus eliminating the need to overcharge on shipping and making the buyer mad. Keep the customer happy and they'll come back, cheat 'em once and they'll find another seller.
posted on May 6, 2002 03:52:51 PM
zclone, I appreciate your suggestion. Unfortunately, a garage sale is a limited venue and only a handful of these, if any, could be sold. Of course, not all my items are in this situation, but those that are I charge the high s&h to make a profit. I am glad you have a good profit margin and wish you continued success.
[edit]grammar[/edit]
[ edited by sun818 on May 6, 2002 03:58 PM ]
posted on May 6, 2002 03:59:38 PM
Thank you sun818, I still don't understand why you have to charge a high shipping rate though.? Is the market flooded with your item? Did you pay too much for them? Is your competition giving them away? All of the above?
Could you hold a Live auction instead of a garage sale. Maybe do swap meets, fleamarkets, consignment stores, specialty shows, direct mailings (expensive though), there are alot of avenues a seller can take.
posted on May 6, 2002 04:32:44 PM
I sell a lot of old, small collectibles for $2 that collectors love. They're not common on ebay, and not obviously sold at Walmart. I will glady make $1000s a year selling them because I just hit relist which takes a minute of my time.
"Pass it on to another Ebayer...at a garage sale, no listing fee, no fvf fee, no shipping."
I tried the garage sale and flea market route. I'd be lucky to make .50¢ on these things, plus they want an extra thrown in for free. It costs money for ads or for a spot.
posted on May 6, 2002 04:45:46 PM
Quickdraw29, and you're content with that...right? Do you inflate your shipping costs? My point was merely this, in alot of cases (under $5.00 sellers) have to inflate shipping (causing buyer retaliation) to make a profit. Why not just increase the opening bid and charge proper shipping?
One other point, how much harder do you have to work for your $1000's than me? Seems like you have to do alot more packaging.
I think we're slowly getting off point though. Thread stating "usps please hide shipping" my response, you don't need to overcharge if you raise your opening bid. The customer will not feel as if you've cheated them and they'll come back.
Bottom line is YOU have to happy with what you're doing. If sales are good, keep up the good work, if sales are slow try something new.
posted on May 6, 2002 05:13:28 PMWhy not increase the opening bid? Because I tried that for a month and received no bids. (Other sellers may vary) eBay got listing fees while I sold zilch. Of course, I prefer your model zclone. Far less work, same profit. But for these items I am stuck with, I work under the premise that a low bid will attract more clicks -- increasing my sales possibility. Where before, the higher starting bid attracted less buyers. An added benefit is that you save on eBay listing and FVF fees using the low bid/high s&h method. Moral is more volume, more profit.
[ edited by sun818 on May 6, 2002 05:22 PM ]
posted on May 6, 2002 05:22:00 PM
sun818, I hate to say this but c'mon, if you need to stealth the postage than you need to dump the stuff you're selling and move on. If you're so worried about not "being seen" than you're obviously in the wrong market. If you have something the buyer wants, the buyer will buy, have you checked your competition?
I support sellers and buy on Ebay, all the time. But I know what it costs to ship stuff and I stay away from those who overcharge. If you HAVE to overcharge you shouldn't even be selling.
posted on May 6, 2002 05:48:19 PM
First, if I could sell it for $3 I'd take that extra $1 profit for my effort. Second, if it sold so easy at $3 I wouldn't be selling it at $2. I sell it at $2 because that's the most likely price I will sell the most at.
Third, I get many buyers who buy my other items listed and have it shipped together. My $2 sale turns into a $15 sale. It increases bidding on my auctions.
While I may be working harder, I have more profits to show for it. My $35 in all could generate $100-$150 in profits, and your $35 invested only makes $20.
posted on May 6, 2002 05:59:43 PM
"My 35 could generate..." Could being the operative word, as I stated my $35.00 investment brings $20.00-$100.00 PURE profit. Per item. I too have other items listed, various versions of the same.
Like I said, if you're happy busting nuts for $1.00 go for it, i've been there, I wasn't happy, I moved on.
All I do is relist myself. On average my profit is $50.00...how many $2.00 items do you havbe to sell to cover that? Now I sell ten of those a day...now how does that look? You'll never convince me selling $2.00 items on Ebay is worth while. I've been there...and left, and i'll never look back.
posted on May 6, 2002 06:06:34 PM
Seems your discussion could be another thread about volume vs profit margin per item.
But back to stealth postage, I do not disclose how much I purchase my items for. The same could apply for shipping and handling, especially if the rate is fully disclosed with shipping method in the auction description. A buyer complaint about s&h after receiving their package is feigning ignorance and mean spirited at that point.
I am glad you stick to your principles and skip sellers that charge high s&h.
posted on May 6, 2002 06:30:18 PM
I also agree that you are MORE competitive with a lower starting bid, if you can make it up a little in the shipping fees. I think there are those who do not factor this in, or at least if seller A starts at $5 and seller B starts at $8 but with smaller shipping/handling fees, they still might go with seller A. Of course, there is the psychological aspect of an auction where once you get bidders to bid, they develop an emotional attachment to the item and may be willing to bid way above normal prices. I have that happen a LOT in my auctions. I've had something sell for $5.99 one week, and $16.99 the next - same item.
posted on May 6, 2002 06:39:26 PM
You're also eating $12 in fees and handling, right? How much do you pay in shipping of inventory to you? I know how it works because I've done it your way too. Margins are a lot smaller than you're letting on.
As a matter of fact, my supplier would require me to spend over $60,000 to obtain that inventory. I could have it all sold in one year, but that puts me at considerable risk if the rice drops. I have tried to buy at smaller quantity, but the deals go to those who have the money to buy it all.
posted on May 6, 2002 08:03:23 PM
Quickdraw, i'm not painting a rosey picture, the $35.00 covers item cost, shipping to me, paypal fees (if applicapble), and any necessary extra packaging. It does not include the $2.25 listing or FVF fee, so at the very most my item is $40.00, anything over and above that is SOLID IN POCKET PROFIT.
"eating $12.00 in fees" Not likely! I never feature, bold, gallery, gift icon or whatever, I hate paying Ebay anymore than I have to.
posted on May 7, 2002 06:11:39 AM
zclone....
You said that we should increase our opening bids to cover the expenses of shipping.
Elsewhere, you said you do not like paying eBay anymore than you have to
Which is it? Remember, eBay gets a pencentage of all the raised bids.
In the beginning, there were alot of sellers who charged only postage or had free shipping. They are out of business now, DUH!
Some definitions as I see them and what customers should realize:
Postage: What the shipping company charges
Shipping: Shipping company charges and the cost of getting to them
Handling: Getting the item ready to ship-notifying warehouse personnel to pull the item, final testing and inspection, packaging and boxing.
Shipping and Handling are legitimate expense and should be listed seperately, otherwise you are paying eBay for you to pack and ship your own items.. Why can't buyers realize that. But these are probably the same people who will buy a Slim Pickins sings the Blues cassette tape from Ktel and pay $9.95 S&H, then #*!@ like madmen when they buy the same thing on eBay at half the price, $3.00 S&H and it says $.90 on the stamp.
posted on May 7, 2002 10:09:12 AM
usps would not hide the postage cost on the package,one way of deciding if there is any item in the box/pakage is to go by the weight and they estimate the weight from the postage we paid.
usps serves everyone,not ebay sellers only,we need to know how much it costs to ship something,it is an education.
posted on May 7, 2002 10:19:30 AM
zclone, you're definitely doing it the way I would if I wanted to make a lot of coin, but I didn't start this a business, I'm just trying to liquidate a collecton, and a little biz to cover losses.
I have started to get out of the under $5 items. It's hard to pass up good sellers when you see them though, but to make serious income, it's too much work. It's fine for how I do it now, I don't work a whole lot.
Back on subject, it's just the way it is for many sellers on ebay in order to survive they need to recover costs on handling. I see it that's the way buyers want it to be. They want the low start bid, and reasonable handling even if you include all your fees. But, some buyers think paying any handling is a scam, which is ridiculous because handling fees go back to the early days of mail order, it's nothing new. The solution is to not print the postage on the package. The buyer seemed fine with the total when they paid, so they don't need to compare postage to what you charged and then whine about it.
