posted on August 2, 2002 08:09:56 AM
This is an actual cut from a very successful seller of Emmy Videotapes on eBay - the exact same type of tapes that I was suspended for trying to sell.
Do you think a statement like this included in a listing would keep the VeRO Bandits at bay? It must be a good opinion of the law as it seems to work very nicely for this seller.
Thanks much ...
As a note, sometimes auctions for these tapes are taken down by Ebay because lawyers illegally claim that these tapes violate copyright or trademark laws. This couldn't be further from the truth. These tapes are ORIGINAL tapes, not copies and thus CANNOT be a violation of Copyright or Trademark laws. Any lawyer worth their salt knows that Copyright and Trademark laws are meant to prevent KNOCKOFF products or COPYING of materialthere are not copies, thus not in violation. Sale of these videos is SPECIFICALLY ALLOWED under the Copyright Laws of the United States (17 USC 109(a)) which states that "the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made...is entitled, WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE COPYRIGHT OWNER, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord." (emphasis added). These tapes are given away with no strings attached to industry people. These industry people are then allowed, as per United States Copyright Law, to do whatever they want with the tapes, including selling them. I have repeatedly asked the studios to provide me with signed agreements to show that they retained rights in the tapes when they sent them out. They have refused to do so, thus the tapes are legal to sell.
posted on August 2, 2002 08:35:17 AM
The statement is basically a recitation of the "First Sale Doctrine".
But the First Sale Doctrine can be restricted per license agreement, as example, Microsoft's OEM license places restrictions on the right of sale of the OEM softwareas well as "educational" softwaqre items.. Without knowing the license situation of these tapes, what restrictions may be applicable are uncertain at best.
But we don't have to answer the question regarding FSD and these tapes on the auction page.
The DMCA/VERO system has what is called a "counter notice", which the accused infringer files with eBay stating that the item(s) do not infinge. The party making the infringement accusation then has I think 10 days to procede with legal action in the Federal court in the jurisdiction of the accused infringer. If the accusing party doesn't procede with legal action, ebay can allow the item(s) to be re-listed without liability for eBay. The party may still pursue legal remedies against the accused infringer.
Anytime a party is accused of listing an infringing item, they need only file the counter-notice with eBay to re-list. But remember, the counter notice only absolves eBay of liability, it does not mean that you still can't be sued.
posted on August 2, 2002 08:44:54 AMThese tapes are ORIGINAL tapes, not copies and thus CANNOT be a violation of Copyright or Trademark laws.
Are we talking about promos here? I don't know about videos but I do know about audio recordings. Recording companies release LPs and CDs to radio stations for airplay, but the discs are still "owned" by the companies, not the radio stations or DJs. In fact, the discs are plainly labelled, "promotional copy - not for resale."
This kind of licensing is similar to that used by software companies, in promo and retail releases. When you buy a copy of Microsoft Office, you do not "own" the software. You own a license to use it. The license usually states that you may resell the original software, as long as the license is included and you remove the software from your system and destroy any backup copies you have made.
posted on August 2, 2002 08:51:22 AM
Reamond anticipated both my responses. RB, perhaps you are unfamiliar with the VeRO program. An auction will be ended if a complaint is received by the copyright holder. A seller then has the right to file a counter-notice, at which time eBay will no longer take action. At that point, it is entirely between the two parties.
To my knowlege, eBay will not suspend users for a first offense. Users receive a warning, which states that if the item is relisted the seller may be suspended. Note, at that point, the seller is dealing with eBay and its rules, regardless of the legitimacy of the recording. If a seller ignores eBay's warning, that seller may be suspended, but the suspension is [for] a violation of eBay's rules, not for copyright infringement.
It is likely that the seller you mention has responded to any VeRO complaints by filing a counter-notice. Whether the recording companies choose to pursue action is another question, not really related to eBay or its policies.
To get a general idea of these, check this one out:
1552372858
I picked this one at random making sure that I did not pick one from the seller who has made the above statement in his listings.
I had 32 listings ended by eBay in one fell swoop. On two of them, I received info from "[email protected]" that included the name and contact information for the VeRO members.
Just so happens that my first "official" VeRO ending (eBay never has given me info on the other 30) was for the EXACT same in ALL respects videotape/DVD combo I have referenced above (only my starting bid was $5.00). I contacted that VeRO member and after hearing what he had to say, I made a promise to never try to resell the tape. He was going to advise eBay of this, but I guess he got too busy. I'm still NARU and it doesn't look like I will be back as a buyer there. I FAXED them the signed reinstatement thing with a copy of my DL quite awhile ago and I have heard nothing
I have thousands of promotional videotapes in my collection. These ones do not come in the fancy sleeves, some of them do not include final sountrack mixes, and ALL of them include a Not For Resale warning.
There's many of these also currently listed on eBay (more on Yahoo though). When a picture is added, it is sometimes quite easy to see where the seller has blanked out the warning on the tape label !
For example, if you look at 1553476618. I have the exact same tape in the same shell and dubbed by HSP. On the front label at the bottom, it clearly states "Not For Resale". A similar warning along with an address to return the tape to after viewing appears on the tape label. And, a warning pops up on the screen about every 15 minutes reminding you that you ware watching a "For Review Only - Please Return After Viewing". I get these for review purposes and the owners really don't ask for them back! But, they insist that they not be sold in any form.
posted on August 2, 2002 09:33:15 AM
RB, I already looked up the seller's auctions.
I had 32 listings ended by eBay in one fell swoop. On two of them, I received info from "[email protected]" that included the name and contact information for the VeRO members. Just so happens that my first "official" VeRO ending (eBay never has given me info on the other 30) was for the EXACT same in ALL respects videotape/DVD combo.
The VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) complained about two, then eBay went through and found all your other auctions. That's SOP (standard operating procedure).
He was going to advise eBay of this, but I guess he got too busy.
You should have been more careful and read up on VeRO. I have had many listings taken down, by Microsoft, last year some new retail boxes shot down by Macromedia, but I have never ignored eBay's warning about being suspended. I do sympathize with you, and I hope you get reinstated. Try emailing [email protected]. He was the original support board rep and is now a support higher-up.
On the front label at the bottom, it clearly states "Not For Resale".
I have lots of promo radio shows on CD. Westwood One, old BBC stuff. It's studio quality, rare recordings, impossible to find (unless you know where to look). Of course the discs say "not for resale." You can buy them easily in Goldmine magazine, but don't try selling them on eBay.
I responded with a couple of examples but my post was deleted.
Oops ... it appears to be back
<snipped the rest of this one>
But, are you suggesting that eBay "assumed" that my other 30 listings were also VeRO violations? I thought they couldn't/wouldn't do that, that all such listings had to be ended by the Copyright Owner.
I had two listings ended by VeRO. In both cases, I contacted the VeRO member and in neither case did I attempt to relist either tape. They were both listed at the same time and therefore nothing was listed "after receiving a warning.
posted on August 2, 2002 09:53:05 AM
As far as looking up VeRO before I listed, I did exactly that. There is no reference to Emmy videotapes there.
I also perused the listings under a search for "emmy video" and found many PowerSellers who are successfully selling the same tapes I wanted to sell. Finally, I read what that one seller stated in his listing (above), saw that s/he was selling very nicely, so I jumped in.
I got hammered on my 2nd day The others (the big guys) are still doing their thng completely unmolested.
posted on August 4, 2002 05:17:37 AM
What may have happened is that the VERO memeber emailed eBay with the rest of the auctions to be removed. This is the VERO "short cut".
Once you have registered as a VERO member, you can get auctions taken down with just an email. A non-member of VERO must mail/fax the forms in each time.
