posted on December 9, 2002 12:45:39 PM
Sure could use some advice if you'd care to offer it.
I've bought and sold on ebay for a little more than five years. Have always clicked the 'ship to US only' button when listing.
About a month ago I sold in a catagory that I've never sold in before. Usually I don't check who's bidding while the auctions are running. This time the reason I did was I was receiving several angry emails about the fact that I don't ship outside the US. My right as a seller, their right to complain.
I have received emails from bidders in other parts of the world and after a couple of emails have agreed to ship to them if they won. They asked before bidding if I'd make an exception. Explained a couple of different terms to them, and if they agreed I said I'd glady accept their bid.
My current problem started when I cancelled about 8 bids from other than US buyers. The hateful, offensive emails came pouring in. When I cancelled the bids I posted the reasons being US sales only, then blocked their bids and sent them a separate email explaining why. Pretty much stating I would ship outside the US if they agreed to different terms than were listed in my auctions.
One guy emails....totally pissed that his bid was cancelled, called me every name in the book and tells me I have no right to do this. I explained ebay rules, sent urls so he could verify but to no avail.
He bid again using a different userid and when I cancelled and blocked that bid also...he screamed even more. Same name different ISP.
So then...he snipes the same auction [using a different userid] where I'd cancelled his previous bid and wins it. I could tell it was him because of the email ISP address. So...I blocked that userid and refunded his payment immediately, with a note on the refund stating why...again.
More nasty emails...threatening to report me to ebay...which he did. Threatening to file a Square Trade complaint...which he did. I answered and thought that was the end of that. Not so....now he's having a fit again and has today informed me he's filing civil action because he paid for the auction [immediately refunded when rec'd] and I refuse to honor his winning bid.
He now states that he can give me a US address to ship to, rather than to his ebay registered address. I don't want to ship to a third party, and believe I'm within my rights not to do so unless I agreed to previous to the auction closing. Am I incorrect in this thinking? How can a buyer force a seller to ship to a third party without a previous agreement?
In his letter to my Attorney General's Office he's now stating he's going to sue because he is out $$ for paying for the Square Trade mediation. Well...he's the one that insisted on it. So I agreed. It was his choice to pay it.
So...what do you think? Am I worrying needlessly or does he have a good case against me? Value of his winning bid was only $25.00. And he's spent hours on emails etc...he has 5 negatives [3 from this past 7 days] and he has it hidden [private].
Also am I wrong in my understand that IF I wanted to sell internationally I would then click on sells to US and XXXXX or ships internationally?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have on this.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:01:02 PM
Just send this to ebay and if this moron leaves you a neg you can have it removed because it did not follow your tos.
Its too bad that you had to meet up with such a fool. Block all emails and put this azzwipe on ignore!
There is nothing this guy can do to you on legal grounds.
I find my out of country bidders to be very civil.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:01:34 PM
Sorry to hear of the trouble.
While I'm not a lawyer, I believe you are well within your rights to set policies precluding Internation sales. After all, why else would eBay have clickable box allowing you to set your auctions in this manner? You can bet that the option would not be available if it had any legal ramifications.
You're dealing with one of the many crazy people online. We've all been there before and it's best not to worry about this individual. Stick to your guns and stay consistant with your policies and he'll eventually go away. He can do all the reporting that he wants to, but he's on no solid ground.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:02:22 PM
I've had many bidders out side the country who asked to ship to a USA address, I've done it numerous times with no problems.
Still it's up to you!
As for his threats, they're trying to rattle your timbers and the only way anything can come of it is if you let it!
If you don't want them just keep cancelling & blocking.
If you think you do want some of them put it in your TOS to contact you before they bid.
If they contact you before they bid you will know who they are and will be able to block them before they have a chance to bid. If you don't want them to bid.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:19:25 PM
Many thanks for your responses. It's always good to get other 'takes' on problems. Thank you.
First issue [trying to be more clear here] is he is arguing the auction says "ships to US only"...not "sells to US only". But I've always been under the impression that by clicking on that button choice, that's what a seller was stating.
Also on the shipping to a different address...yes, I too have done that many a time. Do you think I'm willing to do so after the way this buyer has harassed me for close to 3 weeks? I'm not. I'd rather throw this item in the lake than sell to him. And sellers also have the right when setting up their BP and PP accounts to choose to accept [or not] international payments. When ever I have accept payments from BP or PP users where I'm shipping to an 'unverifed address' or uncomfirmed user there's the PP or BP warning that says..."seller ships to address other than buyers 'verified' address is doing so at their own risk.
On stay consistant with your policies: I have never been a believer of long TOS. And like I said, this has NEVER created a problem in the past 5 years. Always figure if a problem arises it can be worked out. Changing my thinking now. So...my point is there was no stated policy. Just the part of the auction that states "will ship to the US only". The offer of me shipping to the third party was made after I refunded his payment. After the repeated threats and demands. There was no discussion of it before that.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:41:34 PMFirst issue [trying to be more clear here] is he is arguing the auction says "ships to US only"...not "sells to US only". But I've always been under the impression that by clicking on that button choice, that's what a seller was stating.
Forget this guy, he is just being picky. Do report him to ebay.
posted on December 9, 2002 01:42:27 PM
hmm. I wonder what caught up his... well, thats not approriate.
In either case, he's rather an unplesant buyer, and I duno about his social skill but thats no way to get things done the way you want, but yelling and screaming and name calling.
He is probably angry because it wasn't stated anywhere in the description, only in that little section on top of the auction.
I wouldn't sell it to him, I doubt he can take any legal actions against you, and its not like he has a case or anything, I'm sure you have records of his emails, and paypal (or other payment service) kept the history on the refund of the transaction.
There are quite a few auctions I listed where I did NOT want to sell internationally, as I dont like to deal with filling out the custom form (even though it doesn't really take that much time) But people from abroad bids anyway. They have all been very polite and straight foward though, and they understand the extra expenses involved in shipping to other countries, and the wait involved. In fact, I have to go to the postal office right now to pick up a registered mail (payment) from Germany.
You should probably wait for a bit more advice, but I really think you should just ignore this guy, and avoid sending to third party address as that can lead to many more problems.
the only thing I worry about is that this guy doesn't sound too stable, and normally one would think taking costly legal action over $25 (plus $20 square trade, I suppose) is a bit extreme.. but if he's not stable, I duno.
posted on December 9, 2002 02:16:10 PM
trai - After I cancelled his first bid and blocked his userid AND he then bid again [using a different userid] I did email ebay. Then I received this copy, that I believe was sent to him, but can't be sure as his email address was not at the top: [bolding is mine]
Unwelcome Bids Alert
The notice you received about Unwelcome Bidding was sent as an educational tool. When eBay receives a complaint about a user who is bidding when their bids are not welcome, we investigate, and send an informational alert if appropriate.
This notice was not intended to cause you any inconvenience. It was intended only to educate you on our rules.
The SafeHarbor charter defines Unwelcome Buying as persisting to bid on a seller's items despite a warning from the seller that bids are not welcome.
[i]We ask that you review our policy on this issue at the following URL:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/investigates.html#bidding[/i]
A seller has the option to refuse bids from any bidder with which they do not feel comfortable. Sellers often warn bidders not to bid on their auctions through the auction's item description, through the cancellation of the bids placed by the unwelcome bidder, through blocking the user's bids from their auctions, and through email warnings sent from the seller telling the bidder not to bid on their future auctions.
Please understand that your account has not been affected by this alert. However, it is important that you understand that any further violations of this policy may result in the indefinite suspension of your account.
[end]
His next email response to me was the ebay rule that states a seller MUST honor a winning bid. I have emailed ebay again.....but so far [two + weeks later]..nothing. And yes, he left a negative that called me a slur for not accepting out of country bids.
CapYoda - Yes, I've saved all emails...mine and his. Approximately 40 - 50 of them so far, no kidding. He just won't take NO for an answer. He truly believes I don't have the right to not sell internationally. Or now that I don't have the right to choose not to ship to the third party.
I really appreciate all your advice and do feel more calm now. It's just hard for me to understand people who act this way, and for him to go so far as to contact my state Attorney General's office....just floored me.
Thanks again to all of you who responded. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your opinions.
posted on December 9, 2002 02:24:30 PMAnd yes, he left a negative that called me a slur for not accepting out of country bids.
You can get ebay to remove it due to the fact he did not follow your tos.
Just keep after them! Its a lot of extra work because of this live wire, but do not give up. Best of luck.
If you haven't heard from ebay in a couple of weeks I think you should report this bidder once again.
Follow through on the links here and let them know about his harassment and how many e-mails he has sent to you. Also insist that they remove the negative feedback.
posted on December 9, 2002 02:32:43 PM
That's a complaint (esp. from overseas when you have done no wrong) that would not really go very far. Someone threatened to complain against me for having them on a mailing list of mine, when they were not even on it. Anyway, I have a great program where I can block an email or domain, and when they try to contact me, it appears like the address is bad. Works well for spammers, and morons.
posted on December 9, 2002 03:11:02 PM
when I was browsing this evening I came upon a seller that in his/her TOS they state "no international sales, if the winning bidder happens to be outside the US in spite of this warning, there will be a $40.00 handling charge above the cost of the express shipping to the buyer"
I have no idea if it works, but it would definitely pay if someone ignored the warning.
posted on December 9, 2002 08:59:14 PM
If he keeps harassing you, just send him the item. On the customs form where it asks for a description of the contents, write "confidential". Declare the value at $5,000.00. Be sure to include a floppy disk giving instructions on explosive making and opium cultivation. He'll be so busy trying to explain it to customs at his end, he won't have time to bother you.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on December 9, 2002 09:14:32 PMBe sure to include a floppy disk giving instructions on explosive making and opium cultivation. He'll be so busy trying to explain it to customs at his end, he won't have time to bother you.
Haha, I love it. The only drawback to that piece of entertainment would be that youwould now be getting a not so friendly visit by the CIA, FBI tearing your house apart looking for sadam& co.
posted on December 9, 2002 09:38:14 PM
Trai,
I naturally assumed that she wouldn't use her own name on the paperwork. In a case like this, she would use the name and address of her favorite NPB
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
The bidder doesn't sound like he's playing with a full deck. Further communication will not make the fellow reasonable.
Do you have a second eBay ID? If not, I suggest you get one. You'll need to provide a different e-mail address but can use the same credit card for paying eBay fees.
Try to build up some feedback NOW on the new ID (perhaps as a buyer?). If the bidder starts messing with your future auctions, it will be a relief to be able to simply switch over to the second ID (no stress, no grief, no time wasted).
You can always switch back to the first ID in a few months time or, better still, at that time, select to merge the ID's, with the combined feedback going to the second ID.
posted on December 11, 2002 11:43:55 AM
Thanks again to all of you. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Two more emails from this yoyo. I've ignored both.
Kiara - I have, since your suggestion, reported him again. On the removal of FB....it's my understanding that once you agree to enter into the mediation process you cannot get your FB removed UNLESS you both agree. When I hear from our mediator I'm going to clarify that Square Trade rule. Unless I agree to ship to this yoyo...that's not going to happen. If I hadn't agreed to mediation, I could have tried to get ebay to make the call....but I didn't know that until I'd agreed, so it appears too late now.
ahc3 I list from our computer, using ebays seller's assistant, but handle all my emails from a webtv unit....no individual blocker ability. Otherwise, he'd have been blocked a long time ago.
rarriffle - Think that seller had the same problem I ran into? I'd bet that TOS works REAL well.
sparkz Thanks for a well needed laugh. Your suggestion was wonderful to consider.....if only for a moment.
stockticker - Irene Thanks for your suggestions. That might just be what I'll have to do. I do have a second userid that I've used only to purchase a certain collectible so it's very low in feedback but might just give me a much needed break from this guy.
I will update when I see how this Square Trade mediation goes. My hope is that while the mediator doesn't side with one party or the other, they will be willing to confirm ebay rules to this buyer. If that happens, maybe he'll go away. Keeping fingers crossed here.
So...my point is there was no stated policy. Just the part of the auction that states "will ship to the US only". The offer of me shipping to the third party was made after I refunded his payment. After the repeated threats and demands. There was no discussion of it before that.
