REAMOND
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posted on January 28, 2003 02:50:23 PM new
http://www.wired.com/news/ebiz/0,1272,57433,00.html
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ahc3
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posted on January 28, 2003 03:03:46 PM new
Well, not for the consumer. I purchased a Dell computer 10 days ago primarily because it was free shipping. I could have gone to Best Buy and gotten something similar, if I could not save $100 on the shipping, I wouldn't have purchased it. Dell may have had to pay the $100 or so, but they keep their costs down by not doing retail, but mail, phone and internet orders only...
1 more thing, I really, really like my computer. Next time around, I probably WOULD order a Dell even if I had to pay for shipping...
[ edited by ahc3 on Jan 28, 2003 03:04 PM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on January 28, 2003 03:18:32 PM new
About a week ago there was a thread here about eBay trying to get sellers to start offering free shipping.
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robertsmithson
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posted on January 28, 2003 03:24:07 PM new
Very good for customers. 
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trai
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posted on January 28, 2003 03:43:21 PM new
Very good for customers
Not so good for the seller! Unless you can pile this cost into the item price you will lose money hand over fist.
The day will come when these same large company's will rue the day they started this insane program.
For the small ebay seller this will not work no matter what. To do the volume this would need to even come close to a break even would leave most sellers out in the cold.
Reminds me of when the airlines started the "air miles" program to get more customers. Now there is not one of them that would love nothing better than to get out of this as they are losing millions of dollars.
Bottom line is that there is no free lunch, now or ever!
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sun818
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posted on January 28, 2003 03:51:47 PM new
"When customers love something it's our job to figure out how to do it," he said. "And we can afford to do this."
Amazon may be able to offer it but small sellers can not. Oh, I loved Onvia.com when they offered free shipping. They burned through their millions so quick. Now they are no longer a player in online retail.
only 9 percent of orders ended up being eligible [for free shipping]
Sounds good a tenth of the time, but you know companies will milk it for all its worth. I rather see terms stated simply without any of the tiny restrictions.
eBay is pushing free shipping because they can capture more fees this way. For example:
$15.99 plus $4.00 s&h
eBay Fees $1.39 (Listing $0.55 + FVF $0.84)
$19.99 plus free s&h
eBay Fees $1.60 (Listing $0.55 + FVF $1.05)
eBay makes $0.21 per listing. Scale that to just electronic listings and eBay has extra income for the next quarterly statement.
[ edited by sun818 on Jan 28, 2003 03:55 PM ]
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on January 30, 2003 11:13:06 AM new
There was a blurb a few days ago in the WSJ about a couple who actively manage their finances, cutting out extras left and right. Like, instead of a cruise, they take a driving vacation.
One of their cost-cutting mantras was "Buy from Amazon and get free shipping."
Well, that killed it for me. If they had any brains at all, they'd see that Amazon doesn't discount their goods (they can't) and still offer free shipping. The "free" shipping is illusory.
(Not to mention that I got to thinking: If they're cutting out frills, what are they doing buying ANYTHING from Amazon?)
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on January 30, 2003 11:17:13 AM new
"Very good for customers. Not so good for the seller."
I humbly submit that that which is not so good for the seller is also not so good, in the long run, for the customer.
There is not an infinite universe of eBay sellers out there, as people like my friend Mark can attest. He buys a certain kind of model locomotive, and would probably buy more if more were offered on eBay. As it is he buys all that are offered. He has me haunting estate sales and thrift shops to find him more.
Practices that are seller-detrimental end up being customer-detrimental too.
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computerboy
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posted on January 30, 2003 11:52:22 AM new
I suppose it would be much easier to formulate offerings for free shipping when a retailer knows in advance what the selling price of their item is going to be. For us auction sellers, the final selling price of an item is often unknown, thus making it difficult for us to offer free shipping without substantial financial risk.
eBay is a high volume/low margin platform for many of us sellers. The free shipping scenerio does not fit well in many of our selling equations and business models. We are not static priced sellers. While I am all for providing added value to our eBay customers, it cannot be at the expense of delicate non-predetermined margin.
The days of free for the online consumer are gone and those retailers who were late to change their business models to reflect this reality are no longer around. Those of us that remain are driven by profit and will resist making choices that negatively impact the profitability of our business, especially when mandated.
I will gladly ship any item for free when it is purchased at full retail price, but not when it is sold at deep discount. Logic prevails, as us sellers simply can give only so much before there is nothing more to give.
Want free shipping? Purchase your item at a regular retail brick & mortar store at full price. Want to purchase the identical item for less cost and more convenience? Purchase from us eBay sellers and be willing to pay a reasonble shipping and handling fee. It's really not too much to ask. Is it?
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Dejapooh
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posted on January 30, 2003 12:25:17 PM new
If they force us to do it (make it a TOS for ebay, cancel auctions that have a Shipping fee) I will stop using Ebay. I won't have a choice. My items sell for $5 most of the time and shipping and handling is $3 or, all inclusive. No one would bid on my stuff at $8, so I would be forced to Yahoo Auctions. If the sellers go there, the buyers would go there too. eventually...
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. B. Franklin
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ahc3
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posted on January 30, 2003 12:32:39 PM new
I think ebay is too smart to force sellers to offer free shipping. I think one of two things will happen
1) They will take a FVF on the total. They currently do this when you sell something on half.com that is not a fixed shipping price
2) They will offer a special price if you sell postpaid.
Even if they don't force people to go free shipping, I think competition will force that hand. It's amazing to see what people will pay to get something for free. Don't believe me, hang around a casino and see how many hundreds people will blow on gambling to get a $5 buffet lunch free.
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quatermass
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posted on January 30, 2003 12:52:41 PM new
The Amazon free shipping isn't what it appears to be anyway. The order has to be over $25.00 and then it has other rules thrown in it as well. I bought two dvd's from them and the order was $35.00 but didn't qualify for free shipping as one is due out next week and the other is three months pre-ordered.
It is amazing that people want so much for free and it they want free shipping then they can shop elsewhere as I will not give that.
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robertsmithson
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posted on January 30, 2003 01:23:59 PM new
I got an spam email from Frederick's of Hollywood that offered free shipping at the $19 level. I look to see an ebay promotion similar to the recent ebay.australia one that offered free listing fees for no s/h items. It's gotta be coming ....
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sun818
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posted on January 30, 2003 01:35:39 PM new
Remember that eBay is experimenting with "free shipping" in the Electronics category. No other category is affected.
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computerboy
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posted on January 30, 2003 01:54:27 PM new
It is my belief that eBay will never go to an entirely free shipping format. It is just not possible. It may someday become a seller option or perhaps a special searchable feature, but the option will always be ours as sellers.
eBay has to always be careful not to move off of their strattle the line position. Remember---eBay is just a forum. This being the case, they are not one to specifically dictate how sellers list. Doing so would put their ambigous definition in jeopardy.
Just my two cents.
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REAMOND
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posted on January 30, 2003 01:54:39 PM new
I think what is pushing eBay to try the free shipping hook is that Amazon had record sales and has turned the corner profit wise.
As Amazon's financial health and sales improves, competition with eBay becomes more fierce.
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maggielane
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posted on January 30, 2003 02:34:48 PM new
Customers don't come to Ebay becuase of Free shipping. How many times do they sort by lowest cost on an item, and bid that way. If you add shipping in and your competitors don't you will come up in the wrong spot on this sort. If people don't click on your auction to pull it up becuase of price they will never bid on it. Even if your shipping is very high, and they have now seen a picture of the item they are more likely to bid.
I think that Free Shipping is a Very Bad thing for Ebay sellers. It may be good for Amazon, becuase it drives people to the site. But people do not come to Ebay becuase of free shipping.
"For I know the plans I have for you." says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." - Jeremiah 21:11
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sun818
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posted on January 30, 2003 03:24:47 PM new
How many times do they sort by lowest cost on an item, and bid that way.
Actually, its not very frequent. Buyers use search most of the time. (As a sidenote, that is why your title is crucial.) Then, I would guess the listed item price is part of the strategy buyers use to filter results from those listed. So, same item with lower listed price gets clicked first before the higher priced one.
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robertsmithson
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posted on January 30, 2003 04:44:17 PM new
Ebay will never force all sellers to offer free shipping on all items. What I can see ebay is promoting free shipping by offering special incentives such as free promotions and maybe a special search function like the gifts items now get.
I've also been waiting to see what incentives ebay will offer for PayPal accepting sellers such as special searches.
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REAMOND
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posted on January 30, 2003 06:30:05 PM new
I can see eBay forcing the fixed price sales into free shipping.
Remember the Auction for America ? eBay forced the sellers into free shipping for that fiasco.
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pelorus
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posted on January 30, 2003 07:00:34 PM new
Amazon and eBay simply can't be put in the same category.
The buyer that will pay Amazon $25 for a book is not the same one who will pay $6 + shipping on eBay.
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REAMOND
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posted on January 30, 2003 07:07:59 PM new
Amazon has the $6 book listed on the same page as its new $25 counterpart.
But Amazon offers far more than just new and used merchandise. They also offer individual stores which seem to be doing quite well for many.
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robertsmithson
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posted on January 30, 2003 07:38:11 PM new
I was channel surfing last night and one of the QVC-type channels had free shipping on their crud. The free shipping mantra is everywhere now. The shoppers will come to expect it soon.
I remember the 'Auction for America' and it's free shipping. Next it will be free shipping with free online tracking and insurance. That should get most of the ma & pa sellers to leave ebay and leave the big boy sellers that ebay loves so much.
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bowpro
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posted on January 30, 2003 07:41:41 PM new
Here is a question to ask yourself if you are considering giving "Free" shipping.
UPS continues to increase their fees as does the USPS. UPS gives large accounts discounts for volumn. But they are giving the large accounts discounts and making it up of the smaller accounts.
E.G. if you have a regular UPS account they charge you $15.00 per week even if you do not ship a single item. They add a fuel sure charge for thousands of addresses. If you spell Steel St wrong e.g. Steal St they (UPS) charges $5.35 cents to correct the spelling and deliver the package.
There is no "Free" lunch just ask the thousands of businesses that go broke each year one simple question. WHY? Most of the answers would be "I did not cover my costs"
Good luck all
Pat Norris
Bowpro
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twinsoft
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posted on January 30, 2003 09:05:25 PM new
Remember the Auction for America ? eBay forced the sellers into free shipping for that fiasco.
Auction for America pretty much flopped, bringing in just 10% of what eBay promised. Perhaps they'll remember that before implementing mandatory free shipping.
If you're a seller who's used to being hammered with outrageous shipping and "handling" fees (like $40 bucks to ship a digital camera), free shipping can look like a godsend.
I can't imagine free shipping will raise the final value fee of auctions, so this amounts to a loser proposition for most eBay sellers. For fixed-price sellers, it might be feasible, but it also seems like a desperate last-gasp marketing ploy.
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Roadsmith
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posted on January 30, 2003 09:32:02 PM new
I'll tell you one thing--Amazon's so-called free shipping is actually close to losing them a customer. Twice in the past couple of months I've gone to order a couple of books, *thought* I was going to get free shipping and then learned I wouldn't because of all their extra rules about it. It has made me feel negative about the company because of what I consider faulty advertising.
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ahc3
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posted on January 30, 2003 09:40:29 PM new
You have a point Roadsmith, if I thought I was going to get free shipping and then found out as I was paying I did not, I would certainly not go forward with the purchase. Maybe they are counting on people not to notice?
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REAMOND
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posted on January 30, 2003 09:57:28 PM new
I don't think it is a marketing ploy as much as it is a way to increase revenue and fend off any fixed price competitors like Amazon.
Remember Meg has set a rather large revenue target for eBay. Once the revenue growth slows or is not met, eBay's stock price gets hammered.
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Twelvepole
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posted on January 31, 2003 06:05:44 AM new
FROM AN EBAY SELLER, I LOOK AT SHIPPING AND EXPECT WHAT I PAY FOR, BUT GLAD TO SEE ELECTRONICS CATEGORY TRYING IT, TALK ABOUT THE OVER CHARGE THERE...
RETAILERS HAVE SHIPPING MIXED IN WITH THEIR PRICES AND ALSO GET "DEALS" ON SHIPPING LARGE QUANTITIES.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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bowtiefifty
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posted on January 31, 2003 09:36:56 AM new
I offer free shipping on SOME items when I list them with a substantial buy-it-now price. I use my TOS to state "FREE Shipping with buy-it-now purchse, otherwise $x,xx" I can afford to do that when I know I'm going to realize a certain price on an item.
I might consider Free Shipping on other items the day that ebay allows me to pass along my listing, FVF, and PayPal fees to the buyer. Otherwise, I may as well just set the stuff out by the curb and let the trash trolls take it away.
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