unclesmonkey
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posted on February 8, 2004 09:15:35 PM
Hello,
I haven't posted on these boards in years. Please forgive me if this should have been put in another section. I checked out the paypal thread and it seemed dead. I thought you guys might want to hear this.
I have a merchant account and I don't use paypal very much at all. Sometimes a customer wants to use paypal and I don't have a problem with that.
Over two weeks ago I got an email from paypal saying my account was restricted. I called them up and the phone rep told me the computer detected "suspicious activity". I asked what type of activity. I had four paypal transactions for the month and they had all been shipped and received with no problems. The rep said, the computer found something odd and that "maybe it's the credit card". She refused to say exactly what. I told her that since she could not tell me what was wrong I would close the accounts associated with paypal and they would not be getting any verification from me.
They wanted:
1) proof of the credit card location. They had that since they did address verification when I signed up.
2) A copy of the bank statement associated with the account, to make sure it was mine. If it wasn't mine who was the money coming from and going to all these years?
3) A utility bill.
4) Copy of my drivers license.
5) Copy of the credit card statement associated with the paypal account.
The phone rep told me that they did not have to give me any information since the account was under investigation. I told her, that I felt the same way and hung up the phone.
I contacted my bank and they immediately closed the account. They also put a block on the account and told me unless Paypal has a court order they would not get any info from them.
I called Mastercard to close the credit card I used for paypal. The rep from my card company said that they frequently had customers closing their accounts because of paypal. She then told me that Paypal was in violation of Mastercard merchant policy for asking for the driver's license, utility bill, and credit card statement.
I asked her why. She said that Merchants are not allowed to ask for additional information, such as what paypal requested when:
1) The merchant has verified the address and purchases are going to the billing address on file with the credit card company.
2) If a merchant suspects fraud he should immediately contact Mastercard and let them know. Even then Mastercard or the issuer is the one that is allowed to verify customer information, not paypal. Paypal never contacted mastercard or the issuer about my account.
She gave me a number to call at Mastercard to report the violations. The lady I spoke to at Mastercard listened to my story. She told me that paypal was in violation of Mastercard policy. She said that companies like paypal were coming under close watch due to incidents like mine. She said they would contact paypal's processer and inform them of the violation. She told me paypal could be fined by Mastercard or if enough complaints eventually came in have their accounts closed. She also said they would send me a followup letter in the mail.
I just wanted to let others know that complaining to Mastercard may set PayPal on the straight and narrow quicker than anything else. If they lose their merchant account, they are done for.
I still don't know exactly why my account was restricted, but I didn't have any money in it so I don't care.
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OhMsLucy
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posted on February 8, 2004 09:34:59 PM
Hi Uncle,
You might want to send an email to [email protected] and let him know what took place. You could just copy and paste your post here.
Sounds to me like the phone rep overstepped their bounds in asking for all that sensitive and personal info.
Damon will figure it out, I'm sure.
Please keep us posted on what happens.
Lucy
Edited to fix Damon's email addy.
[ edited by OhMsLucy on Feb 8, 2004 09:36 PM ]
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agate18
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posted on February 8, 2004 09:46:26 PM
for those of you who think paypal is wonderful. you might find this link very interesting. http://www.paypalsucks.com/
PayPalSucks.com is where you will learn the abuse, fraud, & evil behind the PayPal system
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CBlev65252
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posted on February 9, 2004 05:33:44 AM
Money in, money out. Never keep money in your PayPal account. At most, I keep $2 or $3 in it. I think I remember reading that they can no longer take money from your personal bank account. So, that's my advise if you use PayPal for whatever it's worth.
Cheryl
http://tinyurl.com/vm6u
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stopwhining
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posted on February 9, 2004 05:57:46 AM
have you been outside the country??if paypal detects someone accessing your account from some country on their black list,they will restrict your account-russia is one of them
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 10, 2004 07:03:27 AM
have you been outside the country??
I have never been outside the country.
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stopwhining
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posted on February 10, 2004 07:41:21 AM
paypal has ways of detecting fraud which they are not going to tell.
it is possible that someone has been trying to access your account.
if you want to continue using your paypal account,just give them the data they want and have your account unrestricted.
then change your password
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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annekila
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posted on February 10, 2004 10:30:07 AM
Could it have been a scam..like the ones that we get from the fake ebay? The phone number you called...was it in the email you received..or did you go to the PP site and get it. I'm always suspicious...
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parklane64
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posted on February 10, 2004 11:00:47 AM
Searching around in the dark trying to reverse engineer what the rule or problem is. Yup, eBay is having an influence on Paypal.
I have never had a problem with Paypal, but pay close attention to those whom have. I keep one bank account with almost no money in it, just for Paypal.
Paypal and eBay are just like common whores; if you use them, don't trust them! Make sure you prophylactize anything that touches them. And check your hard drive for virus' and trojans on a periodic basis....
BTW, great info on Mastercard and the Paypal problem, thanks.
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passedtothepresent
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posted on February 11, 2004 03:12:42 PM
There was a recent email scam worded almost exactly like this one mentioning that my email account had been tied to "suspicious or illicit activity" and all my accounts were now frozen and my services were terminated was just circulated this month on AOL under AOL's identity. It was a scam to collect exploitable info. Sounds like someone at Paypal could have fallen for it if the hackers are sending it out now under Paypal's identity, and may have dinked with your account over it.
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capyoda
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posted on February 12, 2004 05:41:26 AM
add that to the many list of wacky frozen accounts paypal restricts.
i'm sure they have SOME reason. its just they dont want to tell you.
its obvious they're in clear violation of their merchant account agreedment with visa/mastercard.. but even so they're definitely paying their fees and then some.. else this would have been over long ago.
it sucks but I'm pretty sure those complaints wont go far unless we're talking about a large large number of percentage.
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LATTEFOR2
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posted on February 12, 2004 06:14:47 AM
Hi, Just one simple question did you call paypal with the telephone number they gave you in the email? I think either way there should be another paypal contact, I have had little reason to speak to someone at paypal,when I did they were most helpful and did explain things to me.
reenie
I don't get even....I get even better Jimmy Hoffa
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stopwhining
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posted on February 12, 2004 06:39:36 AM
use the phone number on the back of your paypal card.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 12, 2004 09:33:40 AM
Hi, Just one simple question did you call paypal with the telephone number they gave you in the email?
They did not give em a phone number in the email. I had to log into my paypal account, click ona couple of links and find their contact number.
its obvious they're in clear violation of their merchant account agreedment with visa/mastercard.. but even so they're definitely paying their fees and then some.. else this would have been over long ago.
I think most people don't know to try the merchant agreement angle. It would never have occured to me if the rep for my card issuer had not told me.
In all the years I have surfed the internet, I have never heard of anyone complaining directly to Mastercard or Visa about the violations. If more people knew and complained, there would be results.
Over the holidays my friend wanted to use her credit card at a major retailer. The sales clerk demanded id. My friend refused and explained that retailers are not allowed to ask for id unless the card was unsigned. The clerk would not take the card.
We left the store and she called Visa from a payphone outside and told them what had happened. About 2 weeks later she got a letter from the corporate headquaters of the
retailer offering their profuse apologies for the mistake. Visa had contacted their processor.
Visa and Mastercard can and will fine, restrict or shut down major accounts. If you don't play by their rules they get ugly.
I am sure paypal's processor has been contacted by now. I doubt paypal will write and offer me any profuse apologies.
I hope more people complain directly to Mastercard and Visa.
added:
I am crazy. I added to the wrong post. See below for the correct addition.
[ edited by unclesmonkey on Feb 12, 2004 01:53 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on February 12, 2004 10:01:33 AM
i shopped at compusa for my pc and printer,they asked to see photo id,aka my driver license.
some people forget to sign their cards,or if i steal your card and go shopping,how do they know i am you if they dont ask for some id??
electronic stores would have chargebacks up to their gazooz if they dont ask for photo id??
what is the big deal of showing them your photo id??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 12, 2004 01:50:11 PM
i shopped at compusa for my pc and printer,they asked to see photo id,aka my driver license. some people forget to sign their cards,or if i steal your card and go shopping,how do they know i am you if they dont ask for some id??
In a card present situation it is not their job to know who you are. It is their job to check the signature to see if they match. If not they are to call Mastercard or Visa.
If someone "forgets" to sign their card then the merchant is not supposed to accept it, until they present the merchant with a valid id and sign it in the merchant's presence. "See ID" means nothing written on the back of a card. Any merchant that takes a card that is unsigned is in violation of their merchant agreement.
It is a violation of Mastercard and Visa Policy to ask for id. I get a bulliten from my processor about once a year reminding me of the fact. Visa even sent me a sign to post for customers.
electronic stores would have chargebacks up to their gazooz if they dont ask for photo id??
No they wouldn't. In a card present situation, if they follow all of the Mastercard and Visa policies they are not responsible for stolen cards.
what is the big deal of showing them your photo id??
The biggest they have more information than they need about you. Identity theft is easy enough. No need to help anyone along.
Your address and even in some states your social security number is on your drivers license.
Mastercard link to report merchants that ask for identification.
http://www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/contactus.cgi?template=ContactUsMV&rgn=1
Visa link to the proper way to accept cards and dealing with unsigned cards.
http://usa.visa.com/business/merchants/fraud_basics_cardpresent.html?it=search
added...to the correct post this time...
http://www.visafulfillment.com/visamerchant/product/product.asp?id=1747
[ edited by unclesmonkey on Feb 12, 2004 01:54 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on February 12, 2004 02:41:13 PM
u said,
No they wouldn't. In a card present situation, if they follow all of the Mastercard and Visa policies they are not responsible for stolen cards.
//////////////////////////////
so who eats the loss??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 12, 2004 06:11:13 PM
so who eats the loss??
Mastercard and Visa. That is one of the reasons Merchants pay fees. If merchants follow the rules, they generally stick by you.
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trai
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posted on February 12, 2004 06:35:24 PM
If you use Paypal then you better read their user terms long before you push that "accept" button. It is their site and they will run it their way.[They have a truckload of lawers]
They spell out all their rules up front. Problem is that most people never bother to read them and then whine about it afterwards.
They tell any user how their site works and that they can ask you for proof of ID in case of a dispute.
Are they a pain in the azz how they operate? Yes indeed they can be.
In your case do go over to the Ebay boards under paypal and talk to damon [paypal rep.] as he could help you out.
As always when using any payment form use a bit of common sense to protect yourself.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 13, 2004 10:59:27 AM
If you use Paypal then you better read their user terms long before you push that "accept" button. It is their site and they will run it their way.[They have a truckload of lawers]
Mastercard and Visa have a cargoship of lawers and are not afraid to use them.
They spell out all their rules up front. Problem is that most people never bother to read them and then whine about it afterwards.
They can spell out what they want upfront. If it violates a law it is unenforceable. In my case ( and probably many others) they are violating Mastercard and Visa policy. MC and Visa are not the law, but they control how their credit cards are accepted.
They spell out all their rules upfront in the Merchant agreement. If Paypal didn't like them, they could stick with accepting AMEX and Discover.
They tell any user how their site works and that they can ask you for proof of ID in case of a dispute.
They can ask...and they can violate their merchant agreement.
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stopwhining
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posted on February 13, 2004 01:22:15 PM
accepting mc/visa via paypal is not the same as accepting mc/visa via your own merchant account.
when you go thru paypal,it is paypal who has a merchant account,not you.
so paypal could dictate some of its own terms.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 13, 2004 07:09:05 PM
accepting mc/visa via paypal is not the same as accepting mc/visa via your own merchant account. when you go thru paypal,it is paypal who has a merchant account,not you. so paypal could dictate some of its own terms.
They are able to dictate some of their terms. As long as they accept Mastercard and Visa they are not allowed to do anything that violates their merchant agreement with Mc and Visa.
Paypal is the merchant and they are should follow the rule set for ALL merchants by Mc and Visa.
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stopwhining
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posted on February 14, 2004 07:54:52 AM
i dont know what mc/visa said about prompt shipment,but most banks which provide merchant account to retailers who accept credit cards expect them to ship within 24 hours (or within 48 hours) but paypal allows us 7 days.
if you have your own merchant account,you would save money by accepting cc direct instead of going thru paypal-paypal transaction fee is 30 cents and rate is 2.2-2.9%.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 14, 2004 08:27:25 AM
i dont know what mc/visa said about prompt shipment,but most banks which provide merchant account to retailers who accept credit cards expect them to ship within 24 hours (or within 48 hours) but paypal allows us 7 days.
That depends on the bank that issues the Merchant account. Most expect shipment to occur within a few days of the card being charged. If you spell out your shipping schedule to the customer on your website, then the merchant bank does not mind. They just don't want to see the customer ambushed by a merchant that ships whenever.
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stopwhining
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posted on February 14, 2004 09:40:59 AM
you seem to be quite generous when it comes to certain cc terms and not others.
bestbuy and compusa are not afraid to ask for driver license or any photo id when customer buys with credit card.
someone has to pay when discount stores lose money or visa/mc lose money,and that someone is the consumer.
it does not bother me when a good store like bestbuy or compusa or macy ask to see a photo id.
i was at costco yesterday,they always ask for my driver license when i pay with personal check as my costco card does not have a picture of me.costco carries good merchandise at a good price,if i can do my part to keep it that way,what is the big deal of showing my photo id??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 14, 2004 10:04:24 AM
you seem to be quite generous when it comes to certain cc terms and not others.
What terms would those be?
bestbuy and compusa are not afraid to ask for driver license or any photo id when customer buys with credit card.
I don't shop at either. If I did I would report them in a minute.
someone has to pay when discount stores lose money or visa/mc lose money,and that someone is the consumer.
Theft of any kind is a problem in retail situations. When Mastercard and Visa lose money how do consumers pay?
i was at costco yesterday,they always ask for my driver license when i pay with personal check as my costco card does not have a picture of me.costco carries good merchandise at a good price,if i can do my part to keep it that way,what is the big deal of showing my photo id??
I wouldn't have a problem with showing my id for a check.
That has nothing to do with a credit card.
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stopwhining
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posted on February 14, 2004 10:21:27 AM
someone has to pay,if mc/visa or retailer or bank loses money,they raise rates.
asking to see photo id when someone pays with check is no different than asking to see id when someone pays with a credit card,i said screw mc/visa.
they are so #*!@ behind with their security check,look at the authorisation code,approval code ,address verification code,CVV code,soon the card will look like a slice of swiss cheese with their damn #*!@ codes.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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unclesmonkey
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posted on February 14, 2004 10:32:17 AM
someone has to pay,if mc/visa or retailer or bank loses money,they raise rates
What rates? Credit card rates are determined by the issuer and credit scores. If you pay off in full monthly, you have no interest to pay.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on February 14, 2004 10:46:33 AM
I do not show my driver's license or any id to any retailer that want to see it before accepting my credit card.
If a retailer thinks there is fraud involved with my purchase he can contact mastercard or visa and follow the correct procedure. If he does not want to do that, I will turn him in. I will also take my business to retailers that follow the rules.
For everyone that hand over their id so quickly, don't come whining here when your identity is stolen.
Employees of retailers steal customer info and some people make it easy for them. When it happens retailer try to handle it internally without making waves. The victimes of the identity theft usually don't know how it occured.
A restaurant in Florida had employees that were stealing credit card numbers from customers. Sometimes the empolyees would say the manager required a driver's license to verify the card users identity. The trusting customer would hand over the id. The employee would write down the license number.
The employess purchased furniture. Went on trips and lived it up on the good credit of others.
The restaurant employees were busted by the FBI and Secret Service after complaints started rolling in about unathorized charges and the common denominator was that everyone had eaten at this restaurant.
It was later found that some of the customers were also victims of identity theft. The employees had used the information from the driver's licenses to open credit accounts in the victims' names.
This isn't uncommon. Go right ahead and hand over your id at macy's and other "good stores". Skimming combined with getting extra id from a customer is an identity thief's dream.
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/cybercrime/story/0,10801,78531,00.html
http://www.nbc11.com/money/2691845/detail.html
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stopwhining
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posted on February 14, 2004 11:29:26 AM
monkey-
i am referring to the discount rate,not the consumer cc rate.
many websites complain of the treatment they are receiving from their merchant account provider-perpetual hold on their money,insults ,higher rates.
of course,they operate under card not present environment.
as for employees stealing customer cc data,you dont need their driving license,all you need is the cc number and exp date and try your luck on yahoo shopping
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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