twelvebillionenterprises
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:05:48 PM
Last night I had up about 300 auctions and another 50 or so eBay store listings. ALL OF THEM were ended early by eBay because someone complained that I violated "search manipulation".
The justification in the e-mail from eBay was that I used the words "Gucci and Versace" in the title of my auction when the auction was selling a designer fashion business website which had Gucci and Versace items for sale in it, but was not actually Gucci or Versace items!
I had in the past had a couple hundred (but not all) of my auctions removed because I used to list the products that were sold on the business website in the description of the auction and they claimed this too was "search manipulation". I removed the list of the products, but they still ended the auctions early.
Questions:
Has anyone had a seller account closed because of something like this?
I am having a hard time explaining what I am selling without using the words to describe what is included on the website people are buying!
Has anyone else had auctions closed like this?
I'd appreciate any insight on this and guidance.
P.S. Has anyone had any auctions closed early by eBay because eBay claimed they were listed in the "wrong category"?
Thanks!
James
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stopwhining
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:09:54 PM
how many websites do you have for sale??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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OhMsLucy
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:25:54 PM
Hi Twelve,
Search manipulation and keyword spamming are against eBay rules.
If you go to eBay Help, which is at the top right of any eBay page, and search using "keyword" you'll find out more info. (Too long to post here.)
Lucy
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toben88
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:32:41 PM
Even though you are not technically breaking ebay's rules you may not win the battle on this vs whoever turned you in. I used to sell ebooks and listed the table of contents in the description.
No matter how I reworded things I kept getting my auctions cancelled - finnally I moved on to sell other things.
Man it was fun selling ebooks though. I got paid $8 and just emailed them a link. I think I sold that same ebook 100 times over.
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sparkz
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:34:22 PM
Let me get this straight. You had 300+ auctions for websites that use the names Gucci and Versace in the url? Or you had one auction with those names in the title and they shut down 300 auctions plus your stores. If the latter is the case, it sounds like they are getting ready to show you the exit. That's an awful lot of missed FVF's and refunded insertion fees for them to eat if only one auction was keyword spammed and the rest were legal.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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twelvebillionenterprises
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posted on March 9, 2004 06:51:18 PM
Thanks for the help.
Let me get this straight. You had 300+ auctions for websites that use the names Gucci and Versace in the url?
No, that is just the one that got all my other auctions cancelled. We had auctions up that in no way could be considered search manipulation and they were cancelled too.
Or you had one auction with those names in the title and they shut down 300 auctions plus your stores.
Yes.
If the latter is the case, it sounds like they are getting ready to show you the exit. That's an awful lot of missed FVF's and refunded insertion fees for them to eat if only one auction was keyword spammed and the rest were legal.
Yes, I agree. After they closed a bunch of auctions the first time I changed all of my auction descriptions to remove the list of pages (and items that they website sold) thinking that that was what they were complaining about, but it seems like it was also the title as well.
I mean if I have a website that sells Gucci items, am I not allowed to say "Gucci Business + Website" in my title?
Thanks for all the comments!
James
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on March 9, 2004 07:41:09 PM
I mean if I have a website that sells Gucci items, am I not allowed to say "Gucci Business + Website" in my title?
No. You're not. Not unless you are actually selling Gucci items to the winner of your auction, along with the web site.
I find your explanation disingenuous.
For one, you didn't say "DESIGNER FASHION BUSINESS + WEBSITE" in your title, you said
"GUCCI VERSACE BUSINESS + WEBSITE". The only reason to do that is to leverage those two brand names to sell something that is not Gucci or Versace.
I had in the past had a couple hundred (but not all) of my auctions removed because I used to list the products that were sold on the business website in the description of the auction and they claimed this too was "search manipulation". I removed the list of the products, but they still ended the auctions early.
Oh, aren't you cute.
The first time, you get a warning. You've seen what happens the second time. And since you're a slow learner, you'll be barred for life the third time.
Gee, maybe I should try your techniques in my auction. "This bracelet was scanned using an AGFA scanner and listed for sale on an APPLE PowerMac G4. It was placed in a FLAT POLY BAG purchased from PaperMart and sealed with a DYMO LABEL. It was then stored in an AKRO plastic shoebox and kept in order on a GORILLA RACK, next to an APPLE Titanium PowerBook and a COMPAQ Presario 2100 laptop."
Of course I'm not actually selling any of these things other than the bracelet, but according to you, that's A-OK.
No sympathy. None.
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sparkz
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posted on March 9, 2004 07:41:32 PM
The only reason I can think of for them to end all your auctions is because of the past offense. Before you relist that website, you need to submit your proposed title and text to them for pre approval. If they pull it a second time, your account could be toast. I agree, it's about the same as me listing a Chevrolet hubcap and someone searching for a Chevrolet Impala turning me in because my listing came up in his search.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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JACKSWEBB
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posted on March 9, 2004 07:47:08 PM
And you've been here since 2000?
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on March 9, 2004 10:49:31 PM
I agree, it's about the same as me listing a Chevrolet hubcap and someone searching for a Chevrolet Impala turning me
No, it's like you selling a website where you have (at the moment) a Chevrolet for sale.
You're not selling the car, just the website.
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Libra63
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posted on March 10, 2004 04:20:45 AM
It's called Vero.
Gucci probably belongs to the vero program and if that is the case you cannot not mention gucci at all. You are not selling a product but a website if I read it right and I am sure you are using Gucci as a search word, or keyword spamming and that is illegal. eBay probably thought it was easier to end all your auctions then read through all 300.
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mitch3
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posted on March 10, 2004 05:02:50 AM
Find a product to sell and STOP this Nonsense try following the rules and there won't be any problems
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CBlev65252
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posted on March 10, 2004 05:15:37 AM
fluffy
Your example was just too funny! As a buyer, I would be rather put off that you wasted my time by allowing me to think you had for sale what you didn't (wow, did that make any sense?). I've run across these types of auctions many times. Example: Wholesale Sterling Silver Jewelry. You look at the site and they are selling a list. What a waste of a good mouse click.
Cheryl
http://tinyurl.com/vm6u
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stopwhining
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posted on March 10, 2004 05:41:08 AM
i hope you did not list them manually??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on March 10, 2004 07:29:58 AM
Example: Wholesale Sterling Silver Jewelry. You look at the site and they are selling a list.
Since I actually do sell wholesale lots of SS jewelry, I have to deal with the wary and suspicious bidders who've been burned by the nonsense you're citing.
I would be rather put off that you wasted my time by allowing me to think you had for sale what you didn't.
Exactly, which is why deceptive advertising doesn't work. You either end up with an angry browser or an angry customer. People who want (oh, for example  ) solid 24k gold jewelry do not adjust their expectations happily when they find you've sent them 24k goldplated jewelry. And if they're searching for solid 24k gold jewelry and all that comes up with those keywords is goldplated or vermeil (gold on sterling silver), maybe they'll consider driving 30 miles to San Francisco to buy in person instead.
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Mar 10, 2004 09:40 AM ]
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parklane64
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posted on March 10, 2004 12:07:31 PM
I count three distinct eBay problems in this thread alone. The ones that are not CAUSED by eBay are aggravated by their over-whelmed and not updated procedures and protocol.
Don't worry, after you get NARUed you will have more time on your hands. And then you can become a FB (or eBay) terrorist like this guy: http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=554951
This is similar to the experience I had when my father-in-law died. Rather than (literally) dancing on his grave as I had eagerly anticipated, I was subdued by the sorrow of my daughters. I look forward to the eBay derailment, but the pain of the victims is ruining it. Can you people be more up-beat and try to find the silver lining in eBay's knee-jerk policies and alienation of users?
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on March 10, 2004 12:14:38 PM
I'd love to hear your explanation why allowing sellers to use brand names that have no direct relationship to what they are selling is beneficial to either buyer or seller.
Take all the time you need.
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twelvebillionenterprises
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posted on March 10, 2004 04:47:20 PM
Wow! I did not realize that this was such a heated topic.
I now see and understand a lot of your points of view a lot better and plan on making some changes.
Can I get some feedback on this then (2 examples):
If I have a website that sells designer fashions like Gucci, Versace and so on, should the title then be:
"Designer Fashions Website"
Second, if I have a website that sells all types of Spiderman memorabilia is it OK to use:
"Spiderman Memorabilia Website"
If that is not acceptable, what would be a good title for a website that sells only spiderman products and merchandise?
As an aside, what is the thought on where to list a spiderman type website? Would you list it in the "spiderman" category? Websites For Sale? Both?
I look forward to your replies.
[ edited by twelvebillionenterprises on Mar 10, 2004 04:49 PM ]
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sparkz
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posted on March 10, 2004 05:18:22 PM
Type up a description that has no mention of Spiderman. You can type a secondary description that fully explains what the website is all about and use Spiderman in it. Then scan the secondary description and post it in your auction as a picture. None of the words will come up in search so you won't be keyword spamming or manipulating the search engine. I would think the only thing you would have to worry about at that point would be Vero, which I assume you have done the research on to assure you don't offend them.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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CBlev65252
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posted on March 10, 2004 05:19:03 PM
I would definately make it clear in the title that you are selling a website and not the actual product. That would be a good start. I'd also read and re-read eBays rules. Personally, I don't understand people wanting to "buy" a web site when it's so much more self-gratifying to develop your own. To each his own, I guess.
Anything that angers bidders in this manner is a hot topic. Everyone is fighting for a piece of the pie. If you take away the filling, there's nothing left. Sorry about the analogy. It's bad enough that sellers have to fight the bad publicity.
Cheryl
http://tinyurl.com/vm6u
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myoldtoy
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posted on March 10, 2004 06:52:25 PM
...subject to interpretation???
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Keyword Spamming - Keyword spamming is the practice of including brand names or other inappropriate "keywords" in a title or description for the purpose of gaining attention or diverting users to a listing.
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Misleading Titles - eBay listing titles must accurately describes only the actual item or items you are offering for sale.
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The listing may not offer information on how to purchase specific items outside of eBay.
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Ref:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html
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twelvebillionenterprises
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posted on March 10, 2004 07:34:07 PM
...subject to interpretation???
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Keyword Spamming - Keyword spamming is the practice of including brand names or other inappropriate "keywords" in a title or description for the purpose of gaining attention or diverting users to a listing.
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Misleading Titles - eBay listing titles must accurately describes only the actual item or items you are offering for sale.
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The listing may not offer information on how to purchase specific items outside of eBay.
---------------------------------------------
Ref:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html
Does that mean the title I suggested (Spiderman Memorabilia Website) would be in violation of the rules or would it be OK?
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toben88
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posted on March 10, 2004 08:33:22 PM
Your not keyword spamming if you describe your website - check into Vero - thats probably your problem.
Get over it ppl.
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