posted on April 22, 2004 08:48:07 AM
I have a customer that is not satisfied with his purchase at all and wants a refund. He is new to ebay and this is his first transaction. His complaint was: He bought a camera from me and couldn't believe that it was missing the lens cover and the battery charge plus it didn't work. Can you please look over my auction and tell me if I miss represented this item (I feel that I did not but, you tell me):
Any advice is really appreciated. It's good to have a non partial party look the whole thing before making a lasting decision. I have to call him back tonight about this matter, thank for your help!!
posted on April 22, 2004 09:06:10 AM
It doesn't look like you misrepresented the condition. Can you afford to take a neg or another neutral on "misrepresented" item?
Edited to add---
Well, you came here for other peoples views on what you should do, and you got em. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and let us know what happened.
"The only thing more expensive than an education is ignorance" B. Franklin
[ edited by max40 on Apr 22, 2004 01:06 PM ]
posted on April 22, 2004 09:08:33 AM
well, *I* wouldn't have touched that auction with a 10-ft. pole. despite your many times says 'as is', you should have put "as is" in the title too ... AND you promised them a Cannon, but you sent them a Canon ... AND you described it:
Description:
- 3.2-MEGAPIXEL EFFECTIVE RECORDING
- DIGIC PROCESSOR
- 1-1/2" COLOR LCD VIEWSCREEN
- OPTICAL VIEWFINDER
- 2X OPTICAL/6.4X DIGITAL ZOOM
- JPEG RESOLUTION OPTIONS: 2048 X 1536; 1600 X 1200; 1024 X 768; 640 X 480
- MOTION JPEG MOVIE MODE
- AUTOFOCUS
- VARIABLE ISO
- BUILT-IN FLASH
- EXIF PRINT CAPABILITY
- USB INTERFACE
- NTSC/PAL MONO A/V OUT
Well, he obviously can't have a lot of these described things if it DOESN'T EVEN WORK!!!
I would be extremely pi**ed off if I didn't get my 187$ back.
posted on April 22, 2004 09:08:40 AM
You stated that the product had been "tested" even for a brief second, most buyers read the "tested' part and skip the rest.
You should refund this and in future auctions that you wants "as-is" don't say anything about being "tested" unless through email where you can explain further.
If he paid with a cc he can do a charge back if you don't refund, so that is something else to consider.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on April 22, 2004 09:12:29 AM
Hi
From how I understand your auction information ,,,,,I would say. You did not tell him in the listing that the lens cover was missing, and that it did not come with the charger, these are things that you need to mention in the auction. You really did not describe this camera with the right information, and just because you mentioned it's being sold as is.....this does not say much about the camera.
At the same time since this is a person new to bidding on ebay they didn't know maybe to email you and ask you question pertaining to what is included with the camera.
I would say you need to refund the entire purchase price and the shipping cost because you did not say important things in your listing that should have been mentioned.
Like.........this camera does not work, and its missing the lens cover and the battery charger and it is being sold in this described condition.
You stated the following in your auction:
You are bidding on a Cannon PowerShot S230 Digital Camera. This unit has been tested for a brief second and did power on, the battery went dead (uncommon battery) . Cosmetically this Camera is in fair Condition. This item is being sold AS-IS with no guarantee whatsoever. We include photos of THE actual product so that you know EXACTLY what you are getting. Good luck and Happy Bidding!
posted on April 22, 2004 09:29:34 AM This unit has been tested for a brief second and did power on, the battery went dead (uncommon battery) . Cosmetically this Camera is in fair Condition. This item is being sold AS-IS with no guarantee whatsoever. We include photos of THE actual product so that you know EXACTLY what you are getting.
Well, by saying that the camera did power up at first, and then went dead, implying that the problem could've just been the battery, I could see how someone might think the camera itself would work okay once the battery is replaced.
But you also said that it was sold AS-IS.
Please be advised that the items for sale are consumer returns, overstock, and/or display merchandise and there is a chance that it might be defective or may have missing parts that we are not aware of. We DO power up the merchandise to verify functionality.
And again you said that there could be a problem, so it's not like the guy didn't know there was a bit of a risk involved.
I guess what it boils down to is:
1. How badly you want to avoid negative feedback (I noticed that you've already left him a positive) , and
2. If he returned it and you relisted it, could you get a similar price for it the next time? It does look like there were a lot of bidders.
I don't think either of you are "wrong". But I can kind of see how he might have thought the problem could be just a bad battery.
I myself would probably have him return it, verify that the returned camera is the one you sent him, and then refund his purchase price. Then file for a credit with eBay, block him from bidding if you want to, and relist it. But that's just me (negs upset me).
If you don't care about a possible neg, then I wouldn't blame you if you decided to stick with your AS-IS policy. You could always respond saying that the camera was clearly sold on an AS-IS basis.
I think anyone who sells electronic stuff on an AS-IS basis (store returns, etc.) are expected to have a few negs from people who are disappointed when the thing doesn't work, even though they're clearly told the risks ahead of time.
I also think that more information would be helpful, such as mentioning the missing items. You did refer to the photos, but what if your photo host was down?
[ edited by thedewey on Apr 22, 2004 09:35 AM ]
[ edited by thedewey on Apr 22, 2004 09:40 AM ]
posted on April 22, 2004 09:58:42 AM
A refund will not insure that you won't still get a negative?? Very good reason to never leave FB first.
I agree with thedewey - neither of you is totally right or wrong.
Did he get a new battery and it still isn't working? If not - can he take it somewhere and have it tested?
You didn't say it came with the charger so he's out on that and the len cover should not be a big problem.
I guess it comes down to if you want to take a chance on getting a neg. or not.
Try to make some suggestions to him to resolve the problem - sometimes that will go a long way.
posted on April 22, 2004 10:16:21 AM
Ye be Tap-dancing on Quick-Sand here with this one -- no, ye twern't UNTRUTHFUL...OTOH: ye twern't 100% up front either
I just sold my used handheld PC with this disclaimer:
"Although I have had NO problems in the past with this unit, it IS used computer equipment & is thus sold: AS-IS, without any warranty what-so-ever...IOW: NO RETURNS/ NO REFUNDS!"
Sold for $180 BIN & the lady is happy as a pig in yogurt!
posted on April 22, 2004 10:51:51 AM
hello: as tonimar1 stated: "You really did not describe this camera with the right information." and, i would say on behalf of the bidder you werent ADEQUATE ENUFF also, especially if the package originally came with the two missing items...i wonder about this because you didnt include it[them] in the list..did you purposefully omit the ac adptor-or maybe it isnot part of the package...???
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i sell cameras...digital cameras inherently easier to sell than film..seller can put batteries in, and test the camera -- unless something else is missing or wrong..
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i think the buyer is trying to hold you to a higher standard; and i read your recognition of this in you original thread...i bet you will do whats right - for you and the bidder..
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posted on April 22, 2004 11:29:07 AM
You need to refund his money, including shipping both ways when you ascertain that he returned the same camera and accessories you sent to him. You need to then relist this auction, but write your description correctly this time. Get a universal ac supply at Wallyworld for $12.00 and test that camera correctly. By that, I don't mean to power it on for one second and imply that it will work if the battery is replaced. I mean take about 50 pictures with it and give it a thorough testing and accurately describe the results of your findings in the auction. If it works properly, state that the buyer will have to purchase a battery and charger. If it doesn't work, have it repaired or deep six it or sell it as a damaged unit good for parts only. You need to know exactly what you are selling before you even think of listing it. You didn't know if this was a box of burned out ic's or a quality camera, but your description IMPLIED that it would work with a new battery. Although not intentional, I feel that to an unsophisticated consumer, it was misrepresented.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 22, 2004 11:54:54 AM
if i were a bidder,i sure dont know what you mean by uncommon battery and cosmetically the camera is good condition??
if power is on and then went dead,what does it mean??why is it uncommon battery??
how much does a new one retail for??
should the buyer study your photo and see no lens cover and no charger,if they are missing from the photo,he should know better he wont be getting a charger and a lens cover/
what does he expect??bestbuy??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on April 22, 2004 12:28:31 PM
..i copied this from your auction[3089254303] description of 4/09, in which you also received a neutral f/back...
"This appears to be a unopened item! It has been powered on and appears to be unused by a consumer. It works great and comes in original box. Cosmetically this TV is flawless ( like-new ). We include photos of THE actual product so that you know EXACTLY what you are getting. Also, if you like this item please check out our other auctions. Good luck and Happy Bidding!"
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to me, from the bidder's side: how can it be unopened and works great!? and from the f/back it evidently didnt work.period. now i am both nosy and curious...did you have to refund on this one?
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i am not trying to cross swords with you; but as the other posts relate: you cant have it both ways...you cannot, as one says, imply...and i am no expert - just experienced..i have a negative for less, or more, than you have done here...
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myopinionofcourse, myoldtoy
posted on April 22, 2004 01:21:41 PM
whoever writes the item description for you-is english his second language??
powered up for functionality,uncommon battery,cosmetically good,unopened??
well,if it were a tv set,i dont expect a common consumer to open the tv set,unless he is the repair man.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on April 22, 2004 01:22:10 PM
Ok,
I refunded his money...or at-least I will when I get the camera back. But for my own defense the pictures showed the camera missing the lens cover(see upper right hand picture) and if you read my disclaimer you will see that I stated that the item may be missing cables but everything is pictured.... I should not have listed the Factory description though,,learned my lesson there..
And a response to MYOLDTOY.... She was just missing a remote (which I refunded her the money), the TV worked as described. thank you very much..(that wasn't what I was asking about anyway)
posted on April 22, 2004 03:13:08 PM
The lesson for me here is: AS-IS does not get a seller off the hook in certain situations, and also that if something might sell for $187 maybe investing in a battery or charger for testing is prudent.
posted on April 22, 2004 07:03:16 PM
hello again:
"that isnt what i was looking for anyway." i tried to allay any problem by telling you upfront "i been in your shoes once." all anyone has inputted is that no matter how you "clarify" your description, an implication reads clearer and deeper and stays in the mind longer, than all your disclaimers...and my point is further reinforced[or at least i think] by the fact that an image shows what IS PRESENT, not what may be missing..that is evidenced by both the 2 auctions...and whether you are educated, i.e. learn something by the thread, or not, i certainly have been - your post goes to the heart of sellers' problems with certain kinds of buyers...i dont sell new mdse. either...and some of my auctions need some truth to be added-edited...so, i always read these posts with the idea that i can learn something - and i learned from you situation also...so,at any rate, good luck, and you did the right thing...
or, at least, that is myopinionofcourse.
myoldtoy
[ edited by myoldtoy on Apr 22, 2004 07:05 PM ]
[ edited by myoldtoy on Apr 22, 2004 07:06 PM ]
posted on April 22, 2004 07:51:48 PM
As-Is does not mean I’ll leave parts of the description out and it’s your tough luck for not reading my mind. It means I’ll clearly disclose all material facts and it’s up to you, relying on these facts, to decide if you still want to bid. A material fact might be something like say, "...the camera really doesn’t work and there are missing pieces not obvious in the photo." How would you feel if you were the buyer? I think you know, which is why you asked.
Your disclaimer states, “Our merchandise is always sold AS-IS. It is important that all bidders understand exactly what they are bidding on.” Unfortunately, you didn’t exactly practice what you preach.
posted on April 22, 2004 08:36:08 PM
The use of "as is" must be applied very carefully. I occasionally sell electronic test and communications equipment, and I use that phrase in all of them. I qualify it by stating that the item is guaranteed to be in the condition as stated in the description and will not be DOA, but since I have no control over how it will be used, it is being sold in "as is" condition. I will thoroughly test each item I list as best as I can and fully disclose the results of the test, along with what functions have not been tested. I don't mind disclosing faults that I find during testing. If an oscilloscope has noise on a trace, I will disclose it. Fortunately, the people who usually buy this equipment and know how to operate it are qualified to compensate for or repair most problems. In fact, several even look for crippled "fixer upper" items. Many of these items were non working when I acquired them and I was able to repair them. However, when you are dealing with consumer electronics, the buyer generally expects the item to be in proper working order when he receives it. They are not qualified to fix broken items and even having to buy a battery is an inconvenience to some. They will only read the good parts of the description. They won't bother with the "as is" warnings. If there is a fault with the item you are listing, you need to go to extreme lengths to lay it out in black and white so the bidder will know exactly he is bidding on. Your accurate, detailed description is the only defense you have against a dissatisfied customer. The "as is" disclaimer, in most instances, means nothing to them.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 22, 2004 09:11:04 PM
I would seriously consider not selling junk any more. Enough of it, and any reputation that you have worked hard to try and build will all be down the drain in a flash.
, and
