posted on June 1, 2004 07:36:50 PM new
I'm hoping someone out there can help me out on this one. After being a buyer & seller for over 5 years - I am stumped. We sell more than we buy & currently have over 2600 + Feedback. I'll try to condense the story. We bought 2 pieces of art pottery on eBay - $575. Item was advertised as no chips or cracks. Prior to bidding, we sent an email inquiring if item had been repaired. The response was no repairs. Bid & won item - sent MO. Item arrives & both pieces were obviously repaired.
Sent photos & email to seller. Told him, I could understand that a novice may not have noticed the repairs. Said, we would either send the item back for full refund including SHI both ways <or> would accept a partial refund of $225 & keep repaired pieces.
Seller replied that they would only refund $150. So, we said we would return items. Seller replied "If I refund shipping both ways - it would be more than I paid for the items at auction. The pieces are just as described to me at the auction. The best solution is to take $150 & take the item to an auction & sell it, rather than send it across country." [Can you believe this??]
So after a few more emails, we decided we would accept his offer of $175 & told him so. Reminded him about eBay's Buyer Protection Policy & Square Trade, etc. He told us he would not respond to threats- we can contact the CIA, & FBI, etc. - take the $175.
We decided $175 was better than nothing, so agreed to settle it. We asked him to advise us when refund was sent. He replied that he was glad we decided to settle this. However, he would NOT refund the money until we leave positive feedback!! Told him we can't leave feedback until the transaction is completed! His next email forced me to contact Square Trade, EBay, Buyer Protection Program. Well, I found out that eBay doesn't protect buyers & neither does Square Trade help mediate. His reply to Square trade was: "MY page won't load". So Square trade considered the case closed!!!!
Now what!! I still haven't posted any feedback for this seller. There is NO WAY that he deserves positive feedback! But, I'm holding out for a few more days to see if we can get a refund, before the truth be posted as his feedback. (Current rating is 245 with 6 previous negs - although only one was for misrepresentation.)
posted on June 1, 2004 07:46:54 PM new However, he would NOT refund the money until we leave positive feedback!!
Sounds like feedback extortion, which eBay will more likely act on if you follow up from that angle. If the item was mailed to you using USPS, it may be mail fraud since item was misrepresented? Also, may be fraud in the local police jurisdiction/state where the seller resides.
Although pursuing any of the above may give you justice by having the seller get their just desserts from the authorities, you will likely be left with the item and no refund.
Personally, I'd contact the attorney general's office of their home state and see what recourse they offer. Do NOT tell the seller you are doing this. I would not leave the positive feedback to get such a pi$$ poor refund. Full refund, yeah, I'd do it.
posted on June 1, 2004 08:03:38 PM new
I can't believe the extremely poor customer service this guy has! Certainly not the way I run our business!
The item was shipped via UPS. However, we sent a postal money order.
I was extremely disappointed by eBay's lack of understanding. I am not done with that route either. I hadn't thought about the phrase "feedback extortion" - I'll try that phrase in my next email to eBay.
posted on June 1, 2004 08:14:28 PM new
You might respond by telling him that you have no intention of posting feedback, either positive or negative, and that you are only interested in resolving the situation to your mutual satisfaction. If he sends the refund you will be willing to forget the transaction and move on. Try a little sugar first. If that doesn't work, re-read Meadowlark's post and go with the vinegar. Be sure to keep copies of all his emails in case you need to get Ebay involved later, as this does smell like feedback extortion.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on June 1, 2004 09:29:55 PM new
The Attorney General angle will be a COMPLETE waste of you time. They care less I KNOW from internet experience. Squaretrade is a Great SCARE tactic to a novice. appears you are NOT dealing with a novive. Police? hahaha,this is a CIVIL matter.....
If sparkz idea fails,,,,,Welcome to the Dark side of this e bay thing.
I hope no one advises seeking an Attorney,Never gonna happen.
Your last is posting NEG to the whole world which the seller cares less about.
Sorry these kinds of people are here,but, they are.
Same ole Stuff.
posted on June 1, 2004 09:36:21 PM new
I was typing while Tom was posting..
Fraud? it will never fly,,,,,e bay has a so called fraud dept. You will type your fingers till they are raw and NO one from e bay will EVER intervene as you may THINK they might.......Nothin' nada, ziltz......
Bottom line really is,Buyer beware and accept whatever will be.......
Same ole Stuff.
[ edited by jackswebb on Jun 1, 2004 09:37 PM ]
posted on June 1, 2004 09:50:28 PM new
I'm really surprised you would accept a settlement of $175 on a $575 purchase. You had options other than eBay or SquareTrade. Fraud is fraud. $50 buys you a letter from a lawyer. Instead (apparently) you just caved.
This makes me think there's something going on here that hasn't been told.
posted on June 2, 2004 07:56:45 AM new
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER BUY ANYTHING ON EBAY THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THE MONEY ON UNLESS YOU USE A CREDIT CARD.
USING A CREDIT VARD HAS SAVED ME MANY TIMES. WITH THE MARKET AS SOFT AS IT IS MANY SELLERS WILL ACCEPT A CREDIT CARD IF YOU EMAIL THEM AHEAD OF TIME.
If you had used a credit card, all you would have to do is ship the items back insured/registered and notify your credit card company of the return and get a refund immediately.
Once you send money to this type of seller you're at their mercy and they know it.
posted on June 2, 2004 08:27:26 AM new
fluffy,
the buyer is accepting 175 PLUS keeping the items.
reamond,
many sellers do not have merchant account,so they cant accept cc directly.If they take paypal,paypal does not cover item not as described ,but the buyer can take out paypal insurance for item not as described,in this case,the buyer did not.
i agree with Tom,the minute you accepted a compromise like 175 and keep the items,you have agreed to the settlement.
as for feedback,just leave some vague feedback and move on.
question for local,how much are these items worth if they are in perfect condition??
Welcome to Ebay,how many items are truly mint condition!!
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 2, 2004 08:52:59 AM new
You can try whatever email tactics you want but you are between a rock and a hard place. How else are you going to get ANY money back? I would be peeved at the email extortion as well but as others have pointed out, you really have no other recourse to get ANY money back. There is really no one that will help you. The seller knows they are in a power position. Even if they gave you nothing back, the worst thing you would be able to do is a neg. Positive feedback is a cheap price for $175 cash.
posted on June 2, 2004 09:20:46 AM new
Jeez, have any of you actually ever dealt in art pottery?
Apparently not.
A collector might keep an obviously-repaired piece to temporarily fill a hole in his collection.
However, the value of such a piece can be as little as 5% of the price of an identical perfect piece.
Prior to eBay, I bought three pieces of undamaged/unrepaired Roseville pottery from an ad in the Antique Trader Weekly. This was necessarily sight-unseen. When I received them, all had been blatantly repaired. It would have been obvious to anyone collecting Roseville.
I called the seller, explained the problem, told him I would return the pottery and that I expected a full refund including shipping. I also pointed out that I had options, such as getting his advertising privilege restricted.
I received a full refund.
Hey, it's the OP's money. In my view, he just flushed $400 down the toilet. Reselling damaged pottery is a long-odds crapshoot.
posted on June 2, 2004 09:25:48 AM new
I certainly hope future buyers who get ripped off don't listen to most of you.
So eBay's half-baked remedies don't do much. That does not eliminate other remedies you may have under the law. There was a time when eBay didn't exist. There was even (make a real effort and cast your mind back) a time when credit cards didn't exist.
Do you think people blindly submitted to being ripped off then because they didn't pay with a financial instrument that hadn't been invented yet?
Do you think that you are out of luck if you're in California, you order $3,000 worth of widgets from a business in Florida, and they send you boxes of rocks instead of your widgets?
Of course you have remedies. Step away from the computer and re-enter the real world.
posted on June 2, 2004 09:26:52 AM new
Oh, I have no doubt that selling the pottery to get the rest of the money will be difficult but the way I see it, local can get $175 back or $0 back. As stopwhining said "I 'll take 175 anytime!". If the choices were $175 back or $575, obviously taking the $175 would be stupid but I don't see any way of getting the $575. local has no credit card recourse, Ebay won't help him, the seller won't give it to him. What else is there to do? I have had experience with a deadbeat seller and no one was interested in helping me except within the confines of the Ebay, Paypal system. I used a CC so I got all but about $40 back on my deal. local could possibly file a small claim against the seller but most of the time, that is not practical because of the distance and time. AND, he would have to convince a Judge who knows ZIPPO about potter that he was cheated.
Again, positive feedback is a cheap price for $175 cash (in this case).
[ edited by stormypetr on Jun 2, 2004 09:30 AM ]
posted on June 2, 2004 09:34:35 AM new
Fluffy:"Do you think that you are out of luck if you're in California, you order $3,000 worth of widgets from a business in Florida, and they send you boxes of rocks instead of your widgets?"
I wonder about this. How can you PROVE that you were shipped a box of rocks? It would be pretty hard to do that so it is quite possible you could sue them and get nothing. That's why Paypal always stayed out of the issue.
[ edited by stormypetr on Jun 2, 2004 09:35 AM ]
posted on June 2, 2004 10:40:16 AM new
i think fluffy's real world is business to business,not indvidual to individual pretending to be business.
There are venues you can approach,but most of these venues are pretty fedup with this ebay/cyberspace person to person crap!!
To ask an individual across cyberland if an item is truly mint condition is not the same as calling mr neiman marcus or mr sears or mr walmart if the item is mint.
See how childish this game is played out-you leave me good feedback and i will send you 175??
and the buyer said,i dont want to,i want to have the cake and eat it too.
This is played out in grade school every day!!
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 2, 2004 10:56:17 AM new
"Prior to eBay, I bought three pieces of undamaged/unrepaired Roseville pottery from an ad in the Antique Trader Weekly. This was necessarily sight-unseen. When I received them, all had been blatantly repaired. It would have been obvious to anyone collecting Roseville."
"I called the seller, explained the problem, told him I would return the pottery and that I expected a full refund including shipping. I also pointed out that I had options, such as getting his advertising privilege restricted."
"I received a full refund."
-----------------------------
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNND, in my opinion, the above is the correct, and even professional way to handle this[or any] problem....
it seems to me, from reading the poster's opening, this opportunity was missed -- you called the person a novice; placed a demand on his terms of sale, and then offered to take a $300 cut in the price..
this is what the buyer offered the seller:::
"Sent photos & email to seller. Told him, I could understand that a novice may not have noticed the repairs. Said, we would either send the item back for full refund including SHI both ways <or> would accept a partial refund of $225 & keep repaired pieces."
----------------------------------
.. hi-end pottery, glass, china just not given away -especially on ebay...i dont know what the 2 items in question would be - but i cannot think of anything that would be marketable, at a damaged price of $175 each....i dont know why poster willing to offer $300 cut TO START, but i do know one thing for a fact...damaged goods, especially on ebay, are damn near worthless...
--------------------
whoops, i almost forgot..."stillmyopinionofcourse."
myoldtoy
[ edited by myoldtoy on Jun 2, 2004 11:02 AM ]
posted on June 2, 2004 11:35:12 AM new
damaged goods are bidded up every day on ebay,to some bidders,it equates antique.
most ebay bidders are happy to have a piece of damaged goods and call it collectibles,this is not christie or soetheby(sorry for mispelling) where bidders dress up and attend cocktail party,this is affordable middle class collecting.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 2, 2004 04:41:36 PM new
Wow! I just got home from my day job & am surprised to find so many posts!
Yes, we are willing to keep the items with a refund of $175. However, we were not willing to pay $575 for two repaired pieces. The 2 pieces were a jardiniere & pedestal & shipping would have been at least another $50.00 ($25 for each item).
At this point I am trying sparkz's idea of contacting him to settle this with the refund & no feedback. Even though he deserves neg! I have been trying to call him & the line has been busy!
BTW- I have all of the emails.
Even if it is not fraud, it is misrepresentation of product & it is feedback extortion.
I'll keep trying to call him - although I suppose after talking to him I will really be peeved. I figure he knows he has us between a rock & a hard place, but I will pursue it.
posted on June 2, 2004 05:53:30 PM new
No, it's not feedback extortion.
Feedback extortion occurs when a party to a transaction demands a tangible benefit to which they are not entitled OR they will leave negative feedback.
In your case, your seller isn't threatening to leave you negative feedback. Having already one bad feedback for misrepresentation, he just wants to make sure *you* will not neg *him* after you get the partial refund.
posted on June 2, 2004 06:01:17 PM new
LOCAL,
you can also run a full page ad in the newspaper!!
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 3, 2004 10:03:04 AM newIf they take paypal,paypal does not cover item not as described
You can pay through Paypal with a credit card and do the charge back through your credit card. If Paypal takes any action against you due to the charge back, just notify your credit card company and they'll warn Paypal.
I NEVER purchase anything on eBay with a MO or check etc unless it is a sum I am willing to lose.
Like I said before, once the seller has your money in their pocket, you're at their mercy.
