posted on September 22, 2004 04:49:13 AM new
as much as there are things about The Mammoth, ebay, that i don't like, i have to agree with ebay's defense in these cases ... they ARE only a marketplace.
the internet has busted wide open, and the only thing Tiffany, et al, can try to do is sue the fake-items sellers, individually - and that would be near impossible because of the sheer volume of those sellers, scattered all over every jurisdiction in these States, and this world.
posted on September 22, 2004 05:32:50 AM new
Sorry but I hope Tiffany will not settle and takes eBay's butt to trial, they are as responsible as those selling the fakes and hopefully this will be a wake up call for them.
I think any seller should have to show PROOF that what they are selling is the real deal, if you can't show PROOF then you don't sell it as authentic, you can just list it as a "looks like".
They could easily enforce that... seller would be required to fax documentation in and then be assigned an item number.
Many ways to control thievery, eBay is just not willing to do so.
posted on September 22, 2004 07:50:36 AM new
Quote: "eBay says its takedown procedure, called VeRO, or Verified Rights Owner program, is enough -- but Tiffany disagrees, and it has a novel legal argument to support its case. The famous jeweler isn't arguing against the Digitial Millenium Copyright Act (DCMA), and it's not claiming a copyright infringement. Rather, it's claiming trademark abuse. As a result, eBay can't hide behind the safe harbor provided by the DCMA takedown procedure"
posted on September 22, 2004 08:14:23 AM new
Come one guys. Just because you are bitter and would rather COMPLAIN than WORK.
If you list, the bidders will come. Maybe not 80%, maybe not even 60%. But, I still make it just fine with a 25 to 30% sell through. Problem is...you have to list more.
Ebay is still a great way to make money and it is FUN! I vaguely remember working in the "real" world...and I don't want to go back there!
But, in a world where record companies can sue 12 year olds for downloading songs, anything is possible. The "frivilous" lawsuits have changed from us the people to the "big boys" and it is unfair to Ebay, to those of us who still "enjoy" using Ebay, and to everyone else involved.
For once I'm glad I'm not rich...I would have to STOP buying Tiffany and all those other brands in protest. LOL
posted on September 22, 2004 08:24:17 AM new
Come on Lindajean. I was working my butt off and the profits got lower and lower. I figured at the last that I was working for about 10 cents an hour. eBay is FUN! Come on, I have a life.
posted on September 22, 2004 08:35:28 AM new
There is a huge market for knockoffs - some purchased knowingly by customers who want "the look" without paying the high price.
Naturally, a trademark holder will go after the easiest target, namely eBay, rather than the individual seller, or the manufacturers/importers.
In any large city you can buy fake designer stuff an the street corners.
The trademark holders should, and in fact, are obligated to go after these abusers. On the other hand, if I choose to dispose of my genuine Tiffany merchandise, I should not be prohibited from doing so. I think the best solution for this, as well as a number of eBay issues, is to have a rigorous, ironclad registration for sellers. That way in the event of disputes, the litigants can go after the right people.
To force eBay to do more would go down a slippery slope - is that dish really antique? Attractive or just "really cute"? It shoud have the same restrictions as any classfied ad page in the newspaper.
Of course this is not an eBay specific problem, but it will make news when you can combine "eBay" with the words "fraud", "sex", "murder" etc.
posted on September 22, 2004 08:36:48 AM new
Well, so do I
And, I make about $30 an hour and only work when I want to.
I can list 30 items in an hour and I will make at least $48 off those probably $60. And, these are low end items. I left room to account for shipping time (which is minimal with my items) and post office etc when coming up with the $30 an hour.
If I wanted to do this full time and work the 50 hours it would take me to drive to and from work and all day there I could make a very nice living. Being a little old and lazy, I only work a couple of hours a day. Not a bad way to go if you ask me
Of course I don't count the time I spend sorting, buying etc because I LOVE that part. Cleaning and playing my records, sorting my postcards, cleaning and sorting my buttons...all done while I watch TV.
I used to do crafts. So, now instead of sitting around knitting I sit around and "play" with Ebay stuff. Even my husband has given up calling it "work" and knows I am having fun
I've never ever been able to just sit even through a TV show. My hands have to be busy so Ebay is great. Do I like all their changes...of course not. Do I wish the old Ebay of 1998 was back...Who Doesn't! But, I still have fun and I still like Ebay, and I still make money!
You have to study the market, look at best ways to sell, and adapt...adapt...adapt!
posted on September 22, 2004 08:41:13 AM new
Damariscotta: Great Post!
I agree and one of my biggest complaints is the VERO program. If I own an original I should be able to sell it...whatever it is.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the record companies join suit next (which is why I am trying to sell all my records now).
Think about it. I buy a record and the artist and the record company gets a cut. Now, I am tired of it so I sell it on Ebay. They get nothing. Not only that, the person who bought it from me listens to it a few weeks and then they sell it on Ebay and again, the record company and the artist gets nothing. And on and on and on.
I do believe they will jump in here sometime or other and stop the sales And, book companies can follow suit.
So everyone (other than those who are only hanging around hoping to see Ebay fall) better hope Ebay has good lawyers and that all this suing business ends soon or we will all be out in the cold
posted on September 22, 2004 08:48:53 AM new
Lindajean: I was selling exactly the same thing as you, part time. At first it was great, then downhill for some reason. As I've mentioned before, I was doing everything right that I could. I retired two years ago, and the harder I worked at eBay, the worse it got for whatever reason. Then I became disappointed and then disgusted and then I listed less and less. And, as you know, the less you list the less you sell. I am not all that bitter with eBay. It's just that I have other things I should be doing. I have a ranch where I raise registered Longhorn Cattle, and I can make a lot more there than on eBay. So that's where I will spend my time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just didn't care for the "stop complaining and work" thing.
Bill
posted on September 22, 2004 08:50:45 AM new
lindajean: Do you know what worries me as being a threat to eBay? Federal Regulation!
And, it could happen.
posted on September 22, 2004 09:55:52 AM new
Well, Lindajean! Are you the same Lindajean from over Roundtable way? I don't think I've ever seen you over here in the EO. Welcome, and it's interesting to see what it is you're into, approx. how old you are, etc.
posted on September 22, 2004 10:14:57 AM new
etexbill,
i understand what you are saying, i have been selling on Ebay for 8 years and it is not just shut up and keep listing!!
We have no business playing retailer,and the market is sending us a message-when the entry barrier is low,everyone can sell and end result is no one makes any money.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 22, 2004 10:33:14 AM new
Raodsmith: Do you mean the Vendio RT? I never ever ever go there. People are mean down there and I think negativity breeds negativity And negativity means bad luck. (I'm from Vegas, we're superstitious).
I'm 57. I have an accounting degree and an MBA. I spent 20 years in the "real" world and I don't want to go back. Ulcers, headaches and long long hours (80 hours a week just before I quit...with no overtime).
Is there another Roundtable I don't know about? I'm the only Lindajean on Vendio. I'm just Linda but since there's so many of us I found adding my middle name keeps the confusion down and is better than 5 numbers after my name
Edited to add:
I used to post here all the time, but lately I've been to busy and this board has lost a lot of the regulars too so now I mainly lurk.
You must have me confused with someone else
[ edited by lindajean on Sep 22, 2004 10:38 AM ]
[ edited by lindajean on Sep 22, 2004 10:39 AM ]
posted on September 22, 2004 02:05:36 PM new
Whether you like eBay or not has no bearing on this case.
The question is if the DMCA can be interpreted to include trademark infringment.
I think for the internet and eBay to work, Congress is going to have to expand the protection to include protection for ISPs against ANYTHING that a user might post on or through any ISP.
But this flies in the face of what intelectual property owners have been saying about P2P software etc..
There doesn't seem to be any middle ground between these factions.
posted on September 22, 2004 02:42:52 PM new
Lindjean: I apologize profusely for confusing you with LindaK in the Roundtable! I've been very scatterbrained this week, slept in late today, and wasn't quite alert when I posted that message. Of COURSE I know who you are! Again, sorry.
posted on September 22, 2004 08:09:47 PM new
lindajean, I am neither bitter or lazy... I do not make my living off of eBay... and I consider your bragging pure BS... $30/hour all the time? ROFL...
I do think eBay's continued problems with dishonest sellers is a huge problem... and like others who are not so honest, I can see why you would be against lawsuits...
posted on September 22, 2004 08:48:20 PM newas much as there are things about The Mammoth, ebay, that i don't like, i have to agree with ebay's defense in these cases ... they ARE only a marketplace.
You have to be kidding. Ebay has provided the site, but they don't think it is their responsibility to police it, even in the least bit. I totally disagree. It is clear that their is no way to completely keep fraudulant items off of ebay, but to not even make an attempt to keep it clean is simply irresponsible.
It would be comparable to an appartment owner stating, I am only providing shelter, but the tenant is reponsible to make any repairs needed to the appartment and appliances.
If ebay wasn't profiting off of the sales, then I would support the dismissal of the suit, but they do profit from them and needs to take responsibility for them.
posted on September 22, 2004 09:49:06 PM new
Lindajean-Now don't get me wrong you probably can do that but I think that you are exaggerating about your $30.00 an hour. You said you can list 30 auctions in an hour. Yes, I agree with repeat items but if you have to buy your merchandise, image, and crop your images your profit cannot be that. I have no idea what you sell but I know I can't list 30 ties in an hour as taking images of those 30 ties will take me approximately 45 minutes to image and crop. Then when I list each tie requires me to measure. I wish I could do that. Give me some pointers.
posted on September 22, 2004 11:12:26 PM new
OK. I never said SELL 30 an hour. I said LIST 30 an hour. And, yes I do that. 40 if I push it. OK so photo's are taken at the beginning of the week...one day set aside to do that and I didn't count that.
But I can take 500 photo's in about 4 hours and now that I have lighting set up there is no touchup work needed so that's not long. Edited to add that I sell postcards, record albums and 45's, movie posters and lobby cards. All are very easy to photograph and mail.
With AS I can list 30 to 40 postcards an hour. It takes a little longer with the record albums because I always put the full track listing on them. I also type over 100 WPM. I have 3 Ebay ID's and sell each type item under a different ID. I'm only a PS on the postcard one.
What I DIDN'T say was that I work 40 hours a week. If I did, I could definitely make a living at Ebay. I only work about 10 hours a week...I also have a another life. My husband has a business and I put in about 30 hours a week helping him. That's what I love about Ebay. I don't have to work all the time. But, if I need money this month I can make it.
As far as buying stuff goes...most I've collected my whole life so there's not much to that.
Now, believe it or not...but you can just look around and see that if you want to work you can make money on Ebay. If you want to spend your time making silly statements and insulting people you can make nothing because that doesn't pay very well.
posted on September 23, 2004 12:50:27 AM new
"If you want to spend your time making silly statements and insulting people you can make nothing because that doesn't pay very well".
If that statement was for me, I am sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to.
I just wanted to find out a little more because I guess I spend to much time on my auctions or preparing for them. One day I did 10 auctions in 8 hours. This is from prep time to the auction end. Of course every item was different. Not much profit for me.
I just could not see doing that many auctions in an hour. I was amazed and wish I could do that. I give ebay sellers a lot of credit. Esecially the ones that make a living from it. It is hard work.
posted on September 23, 2004 09:57:59 AM new
Libra: Of course it wasn't for you
And, when I started on Ebay (with dialup internet) and no digital camera and had to clean all my records, it took me a long time too.
Now, everything I want to sell is clean and organized, the camera makes the photo's a snap and I package, tape and seal everything right after I list it and put it back on shelves. All I have to do is put a label on it when it is paid for.
After 5 years, I decided I had to quit Ebay or get a system down where I could sit down at the computer a minimal # of hours a week and still make a little money. I spent most of 2003 organizing, cleaning and clearing so I guess you could count all that time into the equation but since it is gone now I didn't
Now, I am usually listening to the records I plan on selling (to check condition) while I make postcard ads or while I cook dinner so that time is not counted either. The rest is just making an ad. I have a short 14 line postiing page with all other information on a template.
I enter the title, a short description (when necessary) and click to add photo. I'm done! 1 minute per listing if I don't have to type those record tracks in. If I do it takes a couple of minutes.
Also, if you make a lot of listings I think you probably take longer. When I tried to keep 300 to 400 items up all the time I was tired, bored and would play around rather than sitting down and working. Now, I try to post 50 a day when I'm not doing my husbands work.
I have the photo's taken for several weeks in advance, and just grab a stack of postcards or a stack of records and list a couple of hours. I'm done.
Mailing is a cinch. My program prints invoices and mailing labels so I just find the item, stick the label on, write the ebay number on the outside, and I am done (postcards I don't seal until they are paid for so I can put the invoice inside). My records sometimes take several listings to sell and they are big so they are sealed and I just put the number on them. I'm toying with the idea of buying packing slips to stick the invoice into.
For those buying used items and having to research them and clean them and photograph them I can see where it would take much much longer. But, you probably have higher sell through rates and probably get more per item than I do so it should average out.
posted on September 23, 2004 10:16:55 AM new
Lindajean- Thanks for your response. 300-400 items a week I envy you. I tried to list 10 items a day for a week but in the middle of the week I just gave up. I have the Mavica with the floppy so I have to edit all the time. Oh how I wish I could afford one of those new cameras but I will stick to what I have so it will take me longer. Your routine sounds like you are very organized, not me. Between babysitting my granddaughter and those reality TV shows I find it difficult. I am just not committed any more. When I know a piece of jewelry that I put up is worth more than the ending bid is it rather discouraging. I tried my postcards, and that was a laugh, I have no idea how you and Neglus keep them straight. I will not bore you with my sorry. I got more gray hair over them than anything I have sold. But I still have a bunch so I will try again. Someday....
posted on September 23, 2004 10:18:53 PM new
Check the new cameras that are out. They take excellent pictures including close ups so there is no croping to be done. In the new computers he memory chip slides into the harddrive and the floppy disc insert has been removed. If you still have the floppy and buy a new computer you have to buy a floppy disc adaptor. A friend has a $79.99 digital camera that takes excellent pictures, sharp and clear. I think it was by canon but can't be sure.
And, book companies can follow suit.
