posted on October 7, 2004 11:22:40 AM
I win an auction with the following description:
"This is a set of 1960's era Eames Arm Shell chairs, made by Krueger metal works of Green Bay, Wisconsin . They are fiberglass, with metal tubular, x-bases . These were licensed by Herman Miller for manufacture by Krueger . Rare to find a set of 4 in these super sixies mod colors!! Condition as follows: There are no cracks to the shells and the bases are very clean with rust. There is some minor scuffing in arbitrary locations, but no deep scraps or gouges. They look great for their age!!"
Payment date: September 23
Shipped date: October 1
Received: Oct 6
I have emailed the seller because of blatant lies in his description. The first one was the fact that 3 of 4 chairs have cracks. One of the three with cracks also has alot of paint on them, which was not mentioned in the auction description.
I know he obviously didn't ship the item within the 7 days that Paypal requires to be within their Seller Protection Guidelines. Secondly, I know that his description was inaccurate and just a flat out lie. Even his claim that these were licensed by Herman Miller for Krueger. False. He claimed this in the auction description, and when I emailed him about it prior to bidding he clarified his statement, though the information he clarified it with was inaccurate.
I have sent him an email as follows, "I received the chairs today, and am quite disappointed in the inaccuracy of your description. The most obvious thing are the cracks on 3 of four chairs. These cracks were obviously pre-existing because they look very aged where they are cracked. All cracks are located on the lower front seat area. Beyond that, one red chair has paint in several areas on it, which was not mentioned. I would like a full refund for these chairs including all of my shipping costs. I hope that you will make all arrangements for pickup with Fed Ex for the return of these chairs. These inaccuracies are a disappointment, and I hope that you will rectify this problem promptly."
So, my question is a matter of recourse. Anyone have experience working with Paypal with a situation like this? When I made payment with Paypal, a portion of it was from my balance in Paypal, and another portion was from using my Wells Fargo Check Card (with Visa logo) through Paypal. How has Paypal ruled in the past with situations like this? How would you recommend tackling this problem if the bidder doesn't come clean with a full refund? Would you file a complaint as unreceived, knowing he didn't ship it within the guidelines of Seller Protection? I don't have a problem returning these at his expense, but I simply don't want something that is damaged.
posted on October 7, 2004 11:52:42 AM
I once bought a lot of postcards on ebay advertised as prime but were in fact junk with a high percentage of duplicate junk. I paid part from my PP balance and part from my credit card. Basically, since the lot was delivered and at issue was "condition", PayPal would not do a chargeback. Maybe if you press it....my only satisfaction was leaving the seller a neg (he negged me right back but mine was buried in a day or two and he had to make his FB private for a long time).
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Sig files are too much trouble! http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards
posted on October 7, 2004 12:49:17 PM
seller protection 7 days policy said the seller should ship within 7 days after payment received,this is to give him time to produce a online trackable DC.
In your case,whether the seller shipped within 7 days or not does not realy matter,the bottome line is that he shipped and you received,end of the 7 days saga.
Paypal does not get involve in 'item not as described' dispute ,the only time it does is when installmenet payment is involved (i dont remember what is the proper paypal term )and the item is Grossly not as described.
Grossly not as described or severely not as described is not whether there is extra paint or crack,it is like selling a fake diamond as genuine diamond or shipping a box of rocks as a laptop computer.
you may ask for a partial refund from the seller,i doubt he would send Fed exp to pick up the chairs and issue you a full refund including shipping.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on October 7, 2004 12:51:09 PM
About a month ago, I had someone file a complaint through ebay regarding a purchase they made using a different account. They claimed it was misprepresented in the auction description, but in fact, they simply misread the description. It is still being reviewed by Paypal, but I am pretty positive I will win it because their claim was based strictly on their interpretation, not on what the auction read.
I haven't heard back from the seller yet, and I have a bad feeling he is going to be a pain about it. I am going to take photos of the cracks and paint, and see how they proceed. I haven't made any suggestions that I would file a complaint through Paypal, nor threatened with negative feedback. I don't think this is the time to do that yet, and I sincerely hope they will resolve this promptly. I paid over $200 including shipping fees, and Fed Ex got a signature of someone else who rents space from us in our store and runs her own business from here, not a signature from me or my business.
posted on October 7, 2004 12:53:22 PM
hahahahahahaha, Believe ME and TOMwii will back this up,,,,,all that seller protection is K RAP! All you gotta do is tell PP that it was MISDESCRIBED and POW!!!!!!! Your MONEY is right back in YOUR pocket. Do a chargeback. They WILL rule in YOUR favor. I had the exact reverse of this pulled on me. HE,the buyer has my product AND his (my)MONEY. I have Nothing. 105 days for them to investigate? and as Tom says, I won't EVER see one Penny. You WILL win! Go for it. Misdiscribed items are NOT covered under PP's protection policy.....I wanna just puke on that. Nothing else is either.......
posted on October 7, 2004 12:55:25 PM
i doubt that Paypal will help you since the chairs were in fact received. you could try to do a chargeback through wells fargo for that portion at least. hopefully the seller will stand behind his word and give you the refund you deserve.
posted on October 7, 2004 12:55:30 PM
If Shagmidmodi can prove that his chairs were not "licensed by Herman Miller for manufacture by Krueger " then he is dealing with fraud. Exactly the same as if he had received a CZ instead of a diamond.
Now, whether PP would see it that way or not is up to PP.
Sahgi, do you your homework. Get some references together for the real thing and email PP fast!
If they agree to reverse charges, I'm sure the seller will gladly have FedEx pick up his chairs. <g>
posted on October 7, 2004 12:57:51 PM
ok, so perhaps I should at least attempt partial restitution through my bank since I used the card from that and I've had good experience with their full cooperation handling problems in the past. If Paypal wants to play games, and make me keep merchandise that wasn't as described, then I'll make sure I keep the merchandise, and file a dispute through the card company. I'll at least get close to half of my money back that way, and let Paypal and the seller duke it out.
posted on October 7, 2004 01:03:10 PM
Oh no , PP and the Seller will NOT be duking it out. PP and the CREDIT CARD Co. will be doing that. I have about 30 out of the 105 days left to find out. Mine was only $50.00 and I learned a lesson,No More than you can afford to lose with PP.
posted on October 7, 2004 01:44:01 PM
You said someone who rented space in your store signed for the chairs and the total is 200.
Well,when you file a complaint with paypal ,you have to state the reason-are you complaining because it is item not as described OR item not received??
IT CANNOT BE BOTH.
If you lie and said item not received,the seller would produce online trackable dc and since the item is under 250,no signature is required and paypal will say -item has been received,what is your problem??
If you said item is not as described,i doubt if Paypal is going to spend much time mediating,this is a he said/she said situation ,and it happens every day on ebay.
I dont know how well you know your personal banker,if she has a sympathetic ear ,she may side with you in the chargeback and you will get some of that money back.
I know some credit card issuers are now saying since you have gone thru a third party payment service (paypal),you should get it resolved thru paypal and not with us.
Also ,you are supposed to return the merchandise before you file chargeback,you cannot sit on the merchandise and get your money back at the same time.
If you can prove you have attempted to return the item and the seller refuses shipment,then he automatically loses the chargeback.
My advice would be talk to the seller first and let him know you would be going thru paypal and your bank if it cannot be resolved between the two of you.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on October 7, 2004 02:35:29 PM
I'm simply trying to figure out the best strategy to protect myself against this blatant fraud by providing all of the info possible.
I am pretty ticked at this point. the seller has already left me positive feedback for my quick payment, so I don't have anything to worry about regarding retaliation.
I simply don't want something that was not described accurately. I can understand if it was a matter of opinion like, "item is in mint condition" and the reality was that it wasn't, well that would be my fault if I didn't ask any questions, but this joker clearly stated no cracks, and 3 of 4 chairs have obvious cracks in them.
If the seller doesn't want to bother handling this properly, The best method possible so far seems to file a complaint first with paypal regarding his fraudulent claims this was licensed by Herman Miller. Upon inspection, Herman Miller Co. would have laughed this right out of their factory. It is pretty obvious that this wouldn't be something that HM would have allowed to be produced if it wasn't going to be done properly, and to claim it is an authorized item is a bold faced lie. If the cracks are my word against theirs, then I shouldn't bother with it.
I think he will attempt to file a fraudulent claim with Fed Ex over damage. Two problems though. It is pretty obvious these cracks are pre-existing before they were packed. They are old cracks and it isn't too hard to figure that one out. Second, the moron didn't bother to pack these properly. He packed them with newspaper packing. He didn't allow any additional padding around the fiberglass chairs in case they were dropped. He did a very unprofessional job in handling this altogether which I was quite surprised because his feedback: 1256 with a 99.8% positive rating is pretty darn good. I really felt I had nothing to worry about, but I guess I was wrong in that assesment.
[ edited by rustygumbo on Oct 7, 2004 02:38 PM ]
posted on October 7, 2004 03:14:06 PM
LOL.
yeah,stop switching your ID.
Have you considered giving him a call??sometimes things get resolved by talking to the person ,not emailing back and forth.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on October 7, 2004 03:47:36 PM
sorry the mixup with my other account. i was checking some auctions on my other account, and forgot to sign out.
anyhow, that is a great suggestion about calling them and i will do it now. sometimes the most obvious way to handle something is overlooked in the heat of frustration.
posted on October 8, 2004 11:32:50 AM
Day 2, now and no response. I emailed them yesterday morning, and left a message on their answering machine in the afternoon. Still nothing, which isn't too much of a big deal.
My question is should I wait to see what response I get before I start a claim with Paypal? My reasoning is to at least give them an opportunity to make things right, rather than getting them all worked up that I was impatient. Any thoughts?
posted on October 8, 2004 11:50:16 AM
if he sells a lot on ebay,i doubt if he is far from his phone .
you can file complaint with paypal or you can log on to paypal question and answer forum to see how paypal handles such complaint.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on October 8, 2004 12:12:40 PM
Good point. I decided to use my other ebay account to send seller a question regarding another auction. If he responds to that one, I will know he is ignoring me regarding this problem and I will file accordingly. Now I expect someone here to tell me I am doing something underhanded and wrong. lol
