posted on November 7, 2004 03:56:49 PM new
40 individuals have been fined $90,000.00 for fraudulent bidding on eBay.
Life Is Too Short To Drink Bad Wine
posted on November 7, 2004 04:37:30 PM new
Nov 7, 5:45 PM EST
8 eBay Sellers Admit to Phony Bids
By MICHAEL GORMLEY
Associated Press Writer
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- Eight eBay sellers were ordered to pay nearly $90,000 in restitution and fines after admitting they bid up products online to inflate the prices.
New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said more than 120 people will receive restitution in the settlement of the three cases, which wrapped up last week in state courts.
Spokesman Darren Dopp said the cases stemmed from specific complaints, but the office has not conducted a broad investigation of the online auction industry and doesn't know how widespread the practice of phony bidding is.
One buyer, Brad Clarke, 48, of Peachtree City, Ga., already has received a check for $3,089 after overpaying for a 1999 Jeep Cherokee sport utility vehicle he bought on eBay from a New York seller in 2002.
"I'd always been suspicious because it seems like an easy thing to do, to just keep bidding up," Clarke said. "But I was still just completely shocked and very surprised."
Three sellers were accused of making 610 bids on 106 of their car auctions under the user name "Mother's Custom Automotive NY Dealer." They are paying more than $28,000 in penalties and restitution, Spitzer said. Their lawyers declined to comment.
In another case, the operator of an art auction house and two former employees were accused of bidding on more than 1,100 of each others' eBay items for more than five years to drive up the prices. Some paintings sold for thousands more than they were worth.
Spitzer said one of the sellers pleaded guilty to a felony charge, the other two to misdemeanors. They were ordered to pay more than $50,000 in restitution and fines.
The other two defendants were accused of making 170 phony bids on their sports memorabilia items. They agreed to pay $10,000
posted on November 7, 2004 04:57:56 PM new
It really kills me when I read stuff like this. It makes it look lik ebay invented shilling. I guess I always go into any auction very suspicious. I figure what I want to pay, and stick to it. I never understood buying artwork or automobiles on ebay anyway, seems to me the risk is too high.
posted on November 7, 2004 06:41:22 PM new
I wonder how many potential bidders that news item will scare off? Stories like this don't help the sales of honest sellers a bit. Shills are crooks, any way you slice it. I'm disappointed there wasn't prison sentences involved in some of these cases.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on November 7, 2004 09:33:57 PM new
We just had a friend buy a 2004 Thunderbird off of Ebay. He did pretty well with it. It only had 500 miles. The owner had won it at a golf tournament and the wife would not let him keep it.
Our friend saved about 5k and still has a full factory warranty. I'm not sure I would be willing to buy an older used car without being able to drive it first.
posted on November 7, 2004 10:22:30 PM new
I think there's a lot more shill bidding going on. Often wonder how they've gotten away with it for so long...
posted on November 8, 2004 09:02:27 AM newDiscreet clean up would be better than a media blitz.
ABSOLUTELY!!
I heard the story again on NPR this morning.
Great press just as the Christmas bidding season begins in earnest. GRRRRR!!!
I start everything at $5 no reserve regardless of what I paid for it. To me, it's more fun that way. .... even enjoy the mildly anxious feeling I get while waiting for the bidding to reach what was paid. I've never placed a shill bid or had one placed for me. On the few auctions I have running right now, there are lots of watchers and no bidders. Usually, my auctions have at least an opening bid within 24hrs.
Does anyone now how much press this story is getting? What other sources have you all heard this from? (Just trying to figure out if I'm paranoid or if this story is going hurt for a few weeks.... or longer.)
I may have to change strategies thanks to those shill bidding pettifogging shysters who ruin it for everyone!
The silver lining may be that eBay will have to get serious about NARU'ing shill bidders.
"Enhancing" the site to monitor bidding activity on private auctions would be a good start! IMHO
-----------------------------------
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)
[ edited by jvj24601 on Nov 8, 2004 09:02 AM ]
posted on November 8, 2004 08:18:29 PM new
I, too, have mixed feelings.
It is wrong to bid up your own products - but if you, as a buyer, can't make up your own mind how much to pay for something - maybe you shouldn't be bidding at all.
No one held a gun on them and made them buy it.
As far as something 'selling for more than it is worth' - something is worth what someone will pay for it. About 99% of the things in the world are 'selling for more than they are worth' as far as I am concerned.
Just wonder if they would think it was wrong if they had gotten theitem for 'less than it was worth'.
posted on November 9, 2004 11:25:17 AM new
does it say how they manage to find out these sellers are bidding on each other's auction??
It seems the govt cant find out without the help of ebay?
what next??state and city wondering if we are not collecting sales tax for them?
what next?/IRS wants to know who is evading income tax//
Those sellers who have pages and pages of listings on Ebay cant be called hobby sellers??
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on November 9, 2004 04:37:47 PM new
I am surprised the IRS isn't already checking Ebay. I am surprised they are not demanding Ebay get SS#'s. It is only a matter of time.
In Texas, and I think it will be so in AZ, if you collect and remit state sales tax, you must report ALL your sales, not just those subject to sales tax. You can't tell me they are not 'sharing' with the IRS.
Cities and states have been trying to get all internet sales to be taxable for sales tax. With states and cities in such financial condition right now, I am sure they are working on it.
posted on November 9, 2004 06:02:52 PM new
it would not be possible for us to remit sales tax to each state,i think soon ebay will have to take the sales tax when it takes away the final value fee at end of auction.
it has the state of the bidder and it knows the sales tax table by state,so what is stopping them from figuring out the sales tax??
it will be ebay which will be remitting the sales tax for us to each state.
it could add up to a bundle for the states.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on November 9, 2004 07:36:25 PM new
There is no way that ebay is going to take a cut of the final value and figure out a sales tax. I don't know where it is going, living in Multnomah County, I know the local government is always looking for ways to tax (and the morons here seem to want to pay it) - I heard today they want to add a 5% tax on cell phones, on top of the other 30% or so we already pay in taxes.
Anyway, it will be up to the individual if this happens, not ebay. Taxes are such a local issue, sales tax range from 0% (one of the FEW taxes we don't have in Oregon) to approaching 10%, so ebay isn't going to take a cut. It could be up to the individual seller, which would be messy. With proper computer programs, it would take me a couple of hours to figure this out if I had to, not really that big of a deal (but I don't want to have to do it)
posted on November 9, 2004 08:23:47 PM new
Is it constitution to charge sales tax across state lines?
Article I Section 9 Clause 5 of the US Constitution:
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
Merriam-Webster defines export as:
to carry or send (as a commodity) to some other place (as another country)
It seems to me if I send an item across the border of my state, then the purchaser is in no way obligated to pay the tax on it in EITHER state.
No?
-----------------------------------
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)
[ edited by jvj24601 on Nov 9, 2004 08:26 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2004 08:40:06 PM new
It will take more than an agreement amongst a bunch of sticky fingered tax collectors in a smoke filled room to get Ebay or its sellers to remit a single penny to a state other than their own. This proposal comes up every two or three years, and after it gets all the state tax collectors pumped up about a windfall, some state AG will deflate their plans when he points out the section of the U.S. Constitution that prohibits state regulation or taxation of interstate commerce. This exact scenario, as well as numerous similar cases, has been confirmed on many occasions by the Federal Courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. Uncle Sam retains the sole monopoly on collecting taxes on a national level.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on November 10, 2004 05:18:06 AM new
it is not a big deal to load a table of state and city and municipal tax into ebay software.
It may furnish this information to the seller at the end of month,quarter or year and it is up to the seller to do the remitting.
Yes,it is possible for seller to be in one state and charges sales tax to an out of state buyer,Spiegel does that in certain states,and other mail order houses do as well.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on November 10, 2004 10:07:17 AM new
but the state has to check on the buyers,not the sellers-find the buyers who reside in its state and find out what he buys and then go after the seller.
It is too much work for too little.
As for IRS,it has already taken ebay into consideration,some brick and mortar dealers who got audited by IRS are asked if they sell on Ebay.
IRS has asked Ebay to submit records,it takes a few months for ebay to come up with the records.
But once again,it would not be econ-feasible for IRS to come to ebay strictly to look for anyone who under report their income.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on November 10, 2004 03:14:59 PM new
They won't need to come to Ebay. All they need to do is check the states' records.
In Texas, and I am pretty sure in AZ, you must report ALL your income - not just that subject to states tax - and you report under your SS#. Now how much trouble would that be for the IRS to check with each state by SS#.
I think it will come via sales tax, and once they demand EBay have a SS# on file - just a matter of minutes.
The government would like you to think there is no way they or employers can crack down on all the fake SS#'s being used these days - but they can.
I lost my SS# over 20 years ago. Just knew the number and it was OK for anywhere in Texas. We were visiting in Wasington state and were going to stay for a while so I decided I needed to get an actual card. I gave my number, she tapped it in, and said, "Yes, Mrs. ____, you were born _____, your mother's maiden name was ______ and your father's name was ________. Took less than 2 minutes.
Now if they wanted to catch those folks using fake ID - it is just that easy. If the number comes up for a little old lady who is 87 and standing before them is a young man of 25, something is wrong. It isn't a matter of not being able - it is a matter of not wanting to catch them.
Now after all VP Cheney evidently thinks that Ebay is going to be the savior of this economy.
posted on November 10, 2004 05:03:27 PM new
IRS has only that much resources ,they have to deploy them effectively,thats why they like to go after doctors(md).
They may go after webstores before they go after individual auction sellers.
Going after individual sellers who have no stores is like opening a big can of worm,we will all be filing expenses such as use of the house,car,pc,phone,internet service provider,camera,scanner,gas,lunch,postage ,travel to trade shows and god knows what?/
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on November 10, 2004 09:11:00 PM new
I did not say they would, we were talking about how much trouble it would be. It would be very little trouble.
Believe me, when they zero in on you, the burden is on you - not them.
As for all the deductions, that is one of the benefits of reporting this income. But be careful, there are very strict rules applying to that.
I do believe, unless EBay takes a downturn, there will be some form of taxes on it. States are broke - right now they are being very creative at hiding the taxes they increased on people.
I think they will - but that is debatable. But can they. Of course they can, and with little effort.
