agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 02:35:42 PM new
THIS IS A NEW TWIST THAT I HAVE JUST COME ACROSS. I THOUGHT IT WORTH SHARING WITH OTHERS. YOU MAY ALREADY HAVE THIS EXPEIRENCE.
Recently a customer won some auctions from me. they amounted to nearly $300.us. I am in australia. he paid up using a master card. or i should say a paypal mastercard. I duly cleared the payment thru my card merchant. No problem, the payment went thru. this was about 4.pm here. The next day when the banks opeaned i went in and banked that payment.
Then about 4 days later i received an email from my customer asking me to reverse the second payment that i had taken out.????
I actually phoned my customer to find out what was going on as i did not instigate a second payment and i knew nothing about it. he still wanted me to reverse the second payment. i tried to explain to him that i did not take a second payment. i double checked with my bank, as i was 100% sure that there was no second amount in my account. i was correct.
then told the customer that as i did not instigate the second payment, i could not reverse any second payment. the amount has not shown up on my paper work anywhere.
It turned out that paypal instigated the second payment for security reasons.??? i then learnt from another friend of mine in the usa that if you get a clearance on a paypal credit card today, you must bank it the same day. otherwise it is considered 2 different transactions. they then take out the 2 different payments. wow , talk about crooks. Another good reason not to use paypal.
now my customer is trying to get his second payment back. can we have paypal charged with fraud.??
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sthoemke
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posted on December 5, 2004 02:42:25 PM new
When taking high value payments from eBay, you always run the risk of chargeback. good luck
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stopwhining
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posted on December 5, 2004 02:53:04 PM new
why dont you ask your customer to show YOU where did paypal take out 2 payments?
does he have a statement from paypal?can he fax you some papers showing such??
also you should ask paypal to explain this ,not your friend in USA.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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tomwiii
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posted on December 5, 2004 03:07:18 PM new
START from the BEGINNING before ya yell THEFT:
1) PayPal "Mastercard" is a bank Debit Card which is covered by a different law in the USA than a Credit Card
2) Some processors run an EXTRA $1.00 verification test before they will run the ACTUAL amout charged to the PP DEBIT CARD.
This happens EVERYTIME I use my PP DEBIT CARD with my vendor...AND then, 5-8 days later, the $1.00 is credited back into my account
NOTHING NEFARIOUS there...
Also, tis very common for GAS STATIONS and RESTAURANTS to also run extra charges on DEBIT CARDS which are also eventually credited back into the account...
3) Rather than yelling THEFT, why don't ya tell him to just CALL PP and they can explain all this...
4) Happens with virtually ALL DEBIT CARDS -- the USA banking system ain't picking on poor ole PayPal
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cta
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posted on December 5, 2004 03:33:34 PM new
Are you sure this is the case? Did you happen to send a payment request through PayPal for his payment? I know that once I had billed a buyer with a PayPal Request Payment, and when they paid, they were very confused because they saw the Billed and Paid with the same amounts - it almost looked like two separate transactions. It just showed up twice on the PayPal breakdown, but only the one payment had been made. I had a heck of a time explaining to the customer to "Look Carefully" at the PayPal statement.
Good Luck!
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CBlev65252
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posted on December 5, 2004 03:48:11 PM new
Tom's right. Everytime I use my card at the gas station, an extra dollar is taken out. It is eventually put back. Also, be aware when using the debit card that if the store makes a mistake and cancels the transaction, that amount takes days to show back up in your account. It's not a credit card.
I used mine at the store. They ran out of register tape. Rather than replacing the tape and running a duplicate receipt, before I could stop them, they cancelled the transaction. Then, they tried to run it through again. No go. I would have had to have double the amount in my account. Almost a week later, the amount was credited back to my account. They even tried to call PayPal - ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I actually did laugh at the store. Because I stood at the register for nearly 1/2 hour before they figured out what to do, I got my $44 purchase for FREE!
Cheryl
"Success in almost any field depends more on energy and drive than it does on intelligence. This explains why we have so many stupid leaders."
-Sloan Wilson
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stopwhining
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posted on December 5, 2004 04:24:09 PM new
The author of this thread said her customer used a Paypal mastercard,she did not say it is a debit or credit card?
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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neroter12
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posted on December 5, 2004 04:32:37 PM new
It's not a credit card.
Cheryl, they can run through mastercard credit card systems, verses a debit card where you dont have to enter a pin. I do it all the time. I dont think you get charged a debit fee when you use it as a credit.
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 04:39:01 PM new
This is not a charge back. my customer is fine with the first payment being taken out. it is the second payment that is the problem. and rightfully so. i did not instigate the second one and my customer did not authorise the second payment. it is only paypal that has caused the problem. my customer has the statement that shows the 2 separate amounts on his statement.
because the card is a paypal mastercard the statement is showing the 2 separate amounts as having been taken out by paypal card people. not my people.
the payment did not go thru paypal direct, it went thru my merchant service.then to paypal. my merchant service shows only 1 request by me for a payment. i did a double check to make sure.
i have also contacted another of my customers in the usa who uses a paypal credit card, and told him about this happening.
he said that it has happened to him on several occasions. he said the reason it happened to him was similar to mine. his supplier cleared the card on a particular day. but did not bank it until the next day.
it took him a little over a month to get the second payment back. plus he had to threaten them with legal action and police intervention.
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 04:48:18 PM new
At this point i am not sure if it is a credit card or debit card. but i am checking right now. all i know is that my customer sells on ebay and leaves the monies in their paypal account. then charges their card up when they want to . i know i have stated it is credit card. but when you asked i had to make sure . i have written and asked them to let me know for sure.
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:20:44 PM new
Just received an answer back from my customer. this is what they said.
It is a debit card but is used as a credit card. When I use it in a store, I press credit card as opposed to debit card. I contacted paypal and they told be to file a dispute affidavit.
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neroter12
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:20:49 PM new
I thought paypal offers their own credit card, too? I'm sure you'd have to qualify for credit like any other bank-backed cc.
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tomwiii
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:21:01 PM new
PayPal's CREDIT CARD is a VISA!
PayPal's DEBIT CARD is a MASTERCARD
They are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities that have nada to do with each other, & are governed by completely different US FEDERAL LAWS...
CREDIT CARDS are covered by the Fair Credit Something or Nother US LAW that provides GREAT protection to CARD-HOLDERS...
DEBIT CARDS, OTOH, are also called "Check Cards" -- they look & smell like Credit Cards, but are usually associated with CHECKING ACCOUNTS & are covered by the very weak ELECTRONIC FUNDS SUMPTIN or ANOTHER US LAW & offer very few protections for users...
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IS IMMENSE!
[ edited by tomwiii on Dec 5, 2004 05:27 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:23:41 PM new
The paypal debit card does not send out any customer statement,so if you said your customer can produce a statement showing duplicate charges,then it is not a Paypal debit card,it is a Paypal credit card.
Is it a formal statement or just what he prints from his paypal account??
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:23:42 PM new
none of these statements justify paypal taking the payment out 2 separate times. because there is no authorizations or requests by myself or my customer. paypal are doing this off their own bat.
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:26:00 PM new
Stopwhining. so far as i know it was a statement on line with their paypal card statement. i cannot prove this though.
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tomwiii
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:31:17 PM new
Well, nobody can make you listen, but again, DEBIT CARDS do this ALL THE TIME & it has NOTHING to do with PAYPAL...
My SouthTrust Visa Check Card (a DEBIT CARD) does it...
My Sovereign Bank New England Visa Check Card (a DEBIT CARD) does it...
YELLING THEFT at PayPal does not make it necessarily so just becuase ye donna understand the Bysantine USA banking system weirdness...
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ebayvet
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:31:21 PM new
It's a bad idea to use debit cards as credit cards, listen to Clark Howard about this one. I actually had my ATM cards converted to regular ATM cards, no credit card logos on them. I am not paranoid, but having a credit card logo makes it REALLY easy for someone to get into your bank account. At least with a traditional ATM, they need to have a PIN. After someone cloned my debit card tied to my business account and tried to run a $4000 purchase through there (thankfully it was turned down) anything they used was taken out. Also with a business account, it can take MONTHS to get the money back. The point is that it is just not paypal, it is everything. Bank smartly
1) Don't use debit cards as credit cards
2) Clear your paypal account when it hits a level that you are uncomfortable losing or are prepared to have it held up in limbo for who knows how long
3) Create a bank account that is used for online debit clearing like paypal. For me, that account NEVER has more than $10 in it.
I am not thrilled with paypal, but as a merchant I realize I have to accept it. Still, I try to make myself as little prone to wrongdoing as I can be..
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:48:13 PM new
tomwiii. firstly i have been transacting debit and credit cards for my customers for about 31 years. in all that time this has never happened to me. that is why i do not accept this as the normal. i do try very hard to avoid paypal. my customer actually told me that it is a paypal mastercard. i am taking their word on this.
i dont use a debit card. i dont own one. the debit card in question does not belong to me. it is my customers.
paypal have told them they took out the 2 payments, so how is it not paypals fault.
ebayvet. i agree with you regarding the account. i do have one but i only use it to make payments. i have and do all the things you have suggested.
but the problem at hand in not my account. as none of this is going thru my paypal acc. and never will.
i am trying to sort this for my customer. whether a certain person out there wants to admit or not. the fault is paypal.
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tomwiii
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:48:37 PM new
Why do I have a hold on my debit card in an amount that I did not authorize?
When you make a purchase with your PayPal Debit Card, a merchant may place a temporary hold on the funds in order to complete a transaction at a later date. Typically, these authorizations will be in the amount of $1.00 USD and the actual charge will post to your account when the merchant submits the payment ticket.
Pre-Authorizations on your PayPal Debit Card should expire within 10 days and the funds will be posted back to your PayPal Account balance
Why was I charged $1.00 USD. for registering my PayPal Debit Card?
When you register your PayPal Debit Card to pay your eBay fees, eBay will place a temporary $1.00 USD hold to verify that your account is open and that money is available. This hold will automatically be reversed back into your PayPal balance after 10 calendar days.
Please Note: Cash Back Bonuses will be awarded for payments of eBay fees for PayPal Preferred customers only.
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 05:57:54 PM new
$1.i dont object to. but $300.i do. but to hold $600. for a single $300 payment is not warranted or justifiable. and so far as i can tell it is not so any where in the world , except with paypal.
one thing i have learnt from all this. i will never accept any form of payment, or credit or debit card payment thru or by paypal.
there is something very wrong with a company or individual that takes out 2 payments to cover 1 payment.
i do believe that in the rest of the world it is illegal.
for all you good people out there that accept this double payment then put it back when they feel like it system. you are being conned. it is your monies, not theirs.
why should you have to take this.?
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stopwhining
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posted on December 5, 2004 06:27:57 PM new
well,hindsight is 20/20,you should have just let them send you the 300 dollars thru paypal instead of trying to charge it thru your own merchant account.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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agate18
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posted on December 5, 2004 06:40:25 PM new
your correct there stopwhining. hindsight is a wonderful thing. but as i state in my auctions, and i will always stick to it. i will not accept paypal payment . i have my reasons. normal credit card payments are fine. i have problems.
had i used my hindsight i would not have accepted a card payment thru paypal. it will never happen again.
thank you all you good people for your comments.
i dont and wont use paypal to receive any form of payments again.
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stonecold613
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posted on December 5, 2004 09:42:23 PM new
well,hindsight is 20/20,you should have just let them send you the 300 dollars thru paypal instead of trying to charge it thru your own merchant account.
Are you nuts? Agate did it exactly right. Only accept credit cards through your merchant account. PayPal is way to unsafe otherwise. If the buyer is stupid enough to have a PayPal card, then they will have to put up with their crap as well.
I did a check of my received payments for the last quarter and found something very interesting. I accept credit cards through our merchant account. 78% paid with a credit card directly with our merchant account, 15% paid with PayPal and the rest was checks and money orders. I never have a problem with anyone asking to accept a credit card through PayPal. And the best part is the merchant acount is safer and cheaper than PayPal.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
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leads
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posted on December 6, 2004 05:49:15 AM new
Was this during there glitch period of early november we purchase an item and they double charged the accounts thru the pay pal system they finally credited the card but what a mess.
I also have one card that I use for nothing but internet related sales only. The limit is only a $1000 with info to the bank to never raise the limit.Must update with them to keep it this way.
Consider this option and you can keep tabs on all your internet activity in one area. It is also good when you use one credit card this way if your doing elder care for a relative to keep track of medical charges.
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fenix03
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posted on December 6, 2004 06:20:19 AM new
I'll bet you $5 that the first charge, although the money is being held from the account, is still showing as pending and will automatically be released back into the account depending on the time period that the PayPal card dictates that a charge must be batched and submitted.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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tomwiii
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posted on December 6, 2004 08:14:24 AM new
fenix, ye said a mouthful...
Happens everyday with CHECK CARDS (debit cards) -- a PITA, but part of da landscape
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stopwhining
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posted on December 6, 2004 09:36:49 AM new
if fenix is right,then the statement the bidder prints from his paypal account should say 300 dollars pending!!
another thing which can be confusing is when you go to eat in a restaurant or getting your hair done,they ran the amount without tipping first and then ran it again with tips included.
but the first charge will come off as soon as the second one with tips come in.
This applies to both credit and debit cards.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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agate18
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posted on December 6, 2004 02:40:32 PM new
The statement shows 2 separate amounts for $300. it does not say pending. the first charge was the one that i instigated. that was fine. the second one was instigated by paypal as a second transaction. as i said further up the page.
it appears that the reason this is happening is, because the first payment was cleared on the first day. then i banked it the next day. and paypal classed it as a new transaction.
[ edited by agate18 on Dec 6, 2004 03:38 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on December 6, 2004 03:52:21 PM new
why dont you ask your buyer to file a complaint with paypal and they should look into it.
In the future,make life easy for yourself and let him send you the payment the paypal way.
[ edited by stopwhining on Dec 6, 2004 04:01 PM ]
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