posted on April 5, 2005 11:46:36 AM
I bought a vehicle on ebay on 2/11/05 - auction ended on a Friday evening. The seller wanted downpayment of 10% by Paypal which I made within a couple hours of the close of the auction. The seller required payment of the balance by certified bank check only. He specified that he would not accept a bank-certified personal or business check - only a bank check. This resulted in an extra charge to me but I complied with his requirement and overnighted him the certified bank check on 2/14/05 the Monday following auction close.
It was after he received my payment that he informed me that he didn't actually have the title to the vehicle but he would be getting it soon. In addition, he was waiting for the lien release from Ford which he would arrange for me to receive as soon as possible.
At least a week passed from the time he received my payment until I received the title and a few more days before I received the release of lien in order to actually transfer the title to myself. I was irritated at the delay but figured it was no big deal as long as I received the vehicle eventually. The seller insisted that he was too busy to allow my husband and I to pick up the vehicle on a weekend. It would have to be picked up on a weekday. Through several emails we were able to arrange for my brother-in-law who lived not too far from where the vehicle was to go pick up the car on a weekday - thus complying with the seller's demands.
We went the following Sunday (2/27/05)to pick up the vehicle from my brother-in-law's home. There was only 1 key with the vehicle, and the DVD video player (which had been advertised as being in working condition on the ebay auction) was missing its remote control and the cassette in which a DVD must be placed in order to play it. There were a few other minor issues but basically everything else with the vehicle was OK.
On March 7th, I emailed the seller and asked if he had another key and the missing parts to the DVD video system. He emailed me back and said, yes, he did and he would send them to me.
Three weeks later, on March 28th, when I hadn't received the items, I emailed him again asking if they had been sent. I heard nothing. So I emailed him again on April 3rd stating that I had not received acknowledgment of my 3/28 email and wondered if he was still planning to send the items.
I received a nasty email back in which he stated I needed to give him some leeway here because frankly this was not on the top of his list of priorities. He said the car had been sold "as is" and it was only as a favor he would be providing the promised items - that as it was he would be out shipping costs. In addition, he had not received positive feedback from me and so was not motivated to send the items. He said I was not to contact him again until I left positive feedback. That when he had received positive feedback, he would send the key and missing DVD video parts.
Ignoring his "Do not contact me again until you leave positive feedback" directive, I wrote back that I understood the car was sold as is but that he also advertised the DVD video player as working. He did not state there were parts missing which make the DVD video system useless and he did not state there was only one key (this is a remote starter with coded key - expensive to get another one - not a matter of going to the hardware store and getting a duplicate key). I stated that I had every intention of providing positive feedback and would do so when I received the agreed upon items.
The seller that he had sold several vehicles on ebay and this was the worst experience he had ever had. He stated he didn't believe I would leave positive feedback - that he thought I was just waiting to get the items in order to post negative feedback. And he wanted me to know that if I left negative feedback he would file a complaint against me and cause me all kinds of trouble with ebay.
After this, I decided the seller could not be reasoned with and I wrote back stating that I had bought and sold several cars on ebay and this was the worst experience I had ever had too - so we were even on that point. I then outlined the time-line in which he had my money for two weeks while I had nothing. How I had complied with all his demands, etc.... I said I would not post positive feedback as the transaction was not positive, nor would I post negative feedback because the transaction had not been all negative. I said if he wanted feedback before I received the missing items, I would have to post neutral feedback. I ended my email with this - "If I receive the items, I will post positive feedback. If I don't, I will not post any feedback. Your choice."
I received a final email from the seller this morning stating. "Your timeline is completely false. Do not contact me again or I will consider it harassment and take appropriate action."
Of course the timeline is not completely false and I can document the day the auction closed, the date he received my payment, etc....but that is not the point. It appears to me that he is now threatening to pursue criminal action against me if I dare correspond with him again. I have to assume he now has no intention of supplying the missing parts to the DVD video player. This system is no longer manufactured and I do not believe I can obtain the missing parts in order to make it functional.
The seller already left positive feedback for me - so he does not have that to threaten me with. I still have at least a week in which to decide (60 days will be up on 4/11/05) what to do. He strikes me as a loose cannon and a bully. He has only 1 negative out of 110 feedback (I have 326 positive feedback, no negatives). It is obvious from his correspondence that feedback is important to him. Here's my question....Based on all that has transpired and the latest email, what should I do? Am I justified in leaving negative feedback or should I do as I said I would if I didn't receive the items and leave no feedback at all?
posted on April 5, 2005 12:21:18 PM
I think you're screwed, unfortunately. Feedback is really irrelevant here. The only way you are going to get what you want is to file a lawsuit through small claims court. You will probably win, but collecting is another matter. Other than that, you've already paid, so that is really the only recourse here.
Not that it will help here, but just as a personal note, I would never give ANYONE any money until I see the car, and test drive it. Title gets transferred at the same time as payment is made. That is the only way to protect yourself (or anyone else really) as if that was done, you would have never gone through with the transaction. I'll never buy a car on ebay personally, because I simply won't buy something like a car sight unseen!
posted on April 5, 2005 12:43:18 PM
Oh, I would definitely give him a negative here. I like that suggestion, and offering to retract it if he complies. If not, you have to go ahead and sue.
posted on April 5, 2005 02:23:03 PM
pdurant,
you said you buy and sell cars on ebay as well,then you must know all the pitfalls !!
I seriously doubt your seller has an extra key and parts of the DVD player,all that excuses of out of pocket shipping cost and having higher priority tasks to do are just plain BS!!
You told him he may get a neutral from you,if i were your seller,i will be dancing in the street.
You can leave him neg or neutral,it is up to you.
Just a thought,when you send him a 10% payment via paypal,did you refer to the ebay listing number??You can always give him a hard time by filing complaint with paypal saying you have not received the item and we shall see how he deal with online trackable DC?? OR is it past paypal deadline for complaint??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on April 5, 2005 02:28:52 PM
I would give a neg ASAP & notify eBay Motors of the situation. Otherwise there isn't a lot you can do outside of a lawsuit which may or may not solve all of your problems, & coul;d be costly.
posted on April 5, 2005 02:35:01 PM
It looks to me as if you could file with eBay claiming feedback extortion as he will not send you the remaining parts to your purchase unless you leave feedback first. I think you would have a good case with eBay.
posted on April 5, 2005 06:51:05 PM
A lawsuit won't be expensive, it is small claims court! You will most likely win if it was advertised with these things, and get your fees reimbursed (collecting is another matter) - Ebay won't do jack for feedback extortion. I've reported it to them, zero consequences!
posted on April 5, 2005 07:35:13 PM
Stop nailed it! Screw all this feed back baloney, who cares? No one! Your MONEY is the ONLY thing of importance.....he's a crook! short changed you.....File with Pay Pal,,,like faster than ASAP!
posted on April 5, 2005 07:43:05 PM
And,,,Oh!!!!!!! You may want to put a call in to his local DMV licensing Dept.....His Dealer license is in deep shi#,,,,,The State motor vehicles dept will definitly want to "chat" with him. How many car sales do you see him having done? 7 per year is the usual for a private person and THEN after hearing from YOU they will be chatting with him even if he is NOT a licensed dealer and THEN the State Board of Eqaulization and THEN,,,,,,Well, WE All know who that final and THEN is...........
the DMV is going to end up being your BEST Friend and hopefully pay pal will fall in place also.......
posted on April 5, 2005 10:48:50 PM
NEG NEG NEG. Then file in small claims court. Guys like this make all of us look bad.
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posted on April 5, 2005 10:56:18 PM
I agree. Give him a big fat neg. Then re-read Jack's advice on getting DMV involved. Personally, I would be tempted to drive to his house and kick his ass till he coughed up all the parts that are missing.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 5, 2005 10:58:46 PM
Road,,,,,,,they are,,,,100's? 1000's? of miles apart? Small claims? He has committed DMV,,Fraud and the DMV will put a SERIOUS @y@ on him.....
posted on April 5, 2005 11:03:30 PM
Yeah, Jack, I guess you're right. Do we know how much money was involved in this transaction? I just know I'd be steamin' mad.
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posted on April 5, 2005 11:12:38 PM
Let me say this,,,,,,E bay,,,,,does NOT give a RATS ass about ANY problems,,,,they are NOTHING but a clearing house that collects commisions on sales AND NON sales....Whether you sell or not....a Swap meet,,,,you pay for a SPOT to SELL.........that's it,,,,,you have a problem YOU call the COPS.....The COPS in THIS situation are the DMV Cops! THEY take THEIR job REAL Serious! Dealer TRIED to mess me up once,,,,,HE was on THEIR Carpet in a HEARTBEAT! He,,,,,,was Standing At FULL Attention! eyeballs LOCKED! and he COMPLIED! ASAP!
posted on April 5, 2005 11:25:03 PM
Raod just asked,,,,,How much $$$$$$$$ are we talking about here, Good Question. whether it be a dollar or $10,000.00..... the seller is a CROOK!!!!!!!! plain and Simple.....Good thing is,,,,,it's a D,M,V situation. Screw square trade,,,,,e bays BS FRAUD crap! And for that matter,,,,,,pay pal,,,,,You are on a STATE Fraud level...........You paid for an entire vehicle AS described,,,,,and YOU got less,,,,,than. It's not nice to mess with the States, Department of Motor Vehicles...... Were talking GOVERNMENT level now.....
posted on April 6, 2005 05:53:09 AM
We will need to see the auction description to find out if item is not as described-he never mention there are 2 keys,you just assume it comes with 2 keys.
The DVD is not working but it is there.
Did the description said 'sold as is'??
Since you are also a reseller of auto-buying and selling on ebay,you should know some of these tricks they pull??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on April 6, 2005 08:23:13 AM
I paid $13,500 for the vehicle. The seller is not a car dealer, nor am I. The cars I bought and sold on ebay were a 1993 Nisson 240 SX and a 1994 Volvo station wagon - transactions for my teenage son that took place last fall. So I don't have a lot of experience with ebay motors. No, the seller did not say he had 2 keys w/remote starters so that is not really a bone of contention.
Here is the entire description and a question (not asked by me) to the seller about the video system. (Note: the seller does not say anything about "as is" - though I understand that I was purchasing a used vehicle. That's why I didn't complain about some minor things that were wrong but that weren't mentioned in the description.)
Description
Item Specifics - Automobiles
Ford : Explorer XLT
XLT 4 Door V8 with Sport Package
Title: Clear
Exterior: Blue
Condition: Used Inspection: --
Engine: 8 CYLINDER 4.6 LITER
Standard Equipment:
KEYLESS ENTRY POWER WINDOWS CRUISE CONTROL CD
POWER DOOR LOCKS POWER STEERING POWER MIRRORS AIR CONDITIONING
ABS AM/FM RADIO XLT 4 WHEEL DRIVE
POWER SEAT DRIVER AIR BAG 8 CYLINDER 4.6 LITER 4WD
Optional Equipment:
THIRD SEAT
This is my 2002 Ford Explorer XLT Sport that I factory ordered new in 2002. The truck is in excellent shape and was used 90% for highway travel. This truck saw very little city or local use and has been extremely well maintained.
This is the 4 Door XLT Sport Package and is True Blue with Gray 2-Tone. Interior is the gray sport cloth which I find is much better and more comfortable than the hard leather option you can get. Some of the factory options are:
* 4.6L V8 Engine
* 4WD
* PW/PL/PM, etc.
* Trip Computer
* Trailer Tow package
* Side Impact Air Curtain
* Control-Trac Stability System
* Third Seat
I have also added the following aftermarket options:
* Tinted Side Windows
* Remote Starter
* Waag Push Bumper
* Venvisors
* Huskyliner Floor Mats
* Sony CD Player
* Alpine DVD Changer with Swing Down Monitor
This truck has served me well and I have replaced it with a Ford Excursion as I needed something larger.
Truck has been meticulously maintained and has never had any mechanical problems. Truck has also never sustained any type of collision damage. Oil has been changed regularly at 3,000 mile intervals with Synthetic Oil only, Transmission Mainenance, etc. have all been performed on or before schedule.
Tires are BF Goodrich Comp T/A which I installed for a smoother highway ride than the standard All-Terrain Tires.
Only ding on truck is on the hood where some ice fell off a bridge and put a couple of small dents just in front of the windshield (See Picture). Dent Doctor quoted me $250 to fix but I have not had time to get it done.
Overall it is a fantastic truck.
Q: do you have the orig factory radio? Is the flip down screen and wide screen? What are the model numbers on the sony and alpine equip?
A: I do not have the original factory radio. The Sony head unit is brand new as I too out the Alpine XM Radio head that I originally put in so I could put it in my Excursion. I couldn't tell you what the model #'s are on those units. The flip down screen is what you see in the picture. I don't know if it is wide screen as I never watched it, it was for the kids. One note, the Alpine DVD changer does have a broken sliding outer door that may need to be replaced but I believe the unit operates fine.
posted on April 6, 2005 08:34:21 AM
Couple more notes: The title actually was delivered within a few days of his receipt of my payment....but it was not a clear title and was useless to me until the release of lien was issued and that took almost two weeks after the close of the sale.
The seller is in NY and I'm 5 hours away in PA.
I don't think the DVM would have any interest in a sale between private parties, would they?
Especially when the missing parts are to an add-on item and not part of the original vehicle.
posted on April 6, 2005 09:09:51 AM
One note, the Alpine DVD changer does have a broken sliding outer door that may need to be replaced but I believe the unit operates fine.
/////////////////////////////////////////
HE BEIEVES THE UNIT OPERATES FINE!
I think you should just leave whatever feedback you think he deserves and move on!
Is this bot for resale??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on April 6, 2005 10:40:58 AM
He advertised and sold it as having a clear title, yet there was a lien against it and the title was not clear? I don't know what the law in NY is, but if you try that in California, you can wind up in jail very fast.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 6, 2005 12:00:41 PM
the lien was slapped on by Ford,it sounds like he took her money and paid off the balance,and voila,a clear title!
anyway,she has the car and it runs ,she just does not have the other key and the dvd components,not the worst horror story on ebay motor!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on April 6, 2005 12:02:28 PM
the lien was slapped on by Ford,it sounds like he took her money and paid off the balance,and voila,a clear title!
anyway,she has the car and it runs ,she just does not have the other key and the dvd components,not the worst horror story on ebay motor!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
