posted on April 25, 2005 02:24:50 PM
I had an international bidder purchase an item. I mailed it out the day after I received the payment. The bidder started asking me a couple of weeks later where the package was. I asked her to wait until 30 days passed since the USPS does not like to investigate sooner. That came and went so I filed a form 524 (I think it was) at the Post Office so they can see if they can find the package. They said it would take 30-60 days to get a response and I let the bidder know this. The bidder did not request or pay for insurance. This covers about 15 emails from her to me. Now she is harrassing me via email about and demanding that I send the item. I blocked her from bidding and blocked her email but she changes email addresses and sends more harrassing emails. She has not cursed in any of the emails. Can I get Ebay to intervene?
posted on April 25, 2005 02:49:08 PM
She has not cursed? If it were me,,,,WHERE the F is my Fing,,,,package!!!!! I am SICK and tired of yer BS excuses!!! SEND That MFing thing NOW! There is way too much $hit going on,,,,
Oh! yeah, to answer the question,,,,,,NO... they care less....Now,,,if she CURSES!!!! E bay may,,,,,,take action!!!!! hahahahaha.
edited to add,,,,,and more thatn likely they will take ACTION against YOU! Where is the bidders thing!! Are you,,,,,,trying to RIP someone OFF?????? your account will be TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
posted on April 25, 2005 02:53:26 PM
I'd be more concerned about a chargeback, if she paid through PayPal.
eBay will do nothing about her e-mails, unless she's being vulgar or breaking an eBay rule of some sort.
IMO, the seller is responsible for making sure the bidder receives the item in good condition. If not, I'd refund or reship. And if it's more money than I want to risk, I purchase insurance even if the buyer doesn't. But that's just what I'd do.
Ultimately, you'll have to decide how you want to handle it, considering how she paid (money order? PayPal?), and how badly you want to avoid a potential negative feedback comment.
ETA: How did you ship? Surface mail can take 2 months. Even longer isn't unheard of.
posted on April 25, 2005 03:16:28 PM
Actually, I think ebay has something about using email that it shouldnt be used for harassment or something like that? I dont know if this would apply or fall within those boundries. You had a transaction with them, so its legit -- but even it crosses some line, it probably would not get a high priority from them on their do list or anything.
posted on April 25, 2005 03:19:53 PM
Sure - you can get Ebay to tell her she is a bad bad girl for having the gall to email you regarding a purchase that she made but has not recieved. I mean, hell, how dare she.... Of course the most common recourse of one who has been chastised in such a manner is to file an ebay complaint against you for non receipt and follow it up with a PayPal chargeback.
To tell you the truth, I'm surprised she hasn't already. You blocked her emails?!? Tacky!
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Apr 25, 2005 03:21 PM ]
posted on April 25, 2005 03:42:50 PM
fenix, he said answered them a couple of times against 15 emails or so. How many emails do you want against one transaction thats lost?
stormypetr, they may be worried about the 30 day mark for filing a claim with paypal, so naturally waiting 30-60 days on the PO's info isnt going to sit right with them...did you accept pp on this, btw?
posted on April 25, 2005 04:11:48 PM
The 30 days is already passed. The bidder has literally sent me 10 emails in the past 24 hours. I'm sure there would have been more but I blocked her first address and then she created another. This is in addition to the 15 emails over the past 40 days that I responded to. I am sure, fenix, that's just fine in your book. Give me your email address, I'll be happy to pass it on to her. You can comiserate with her over what a bad seller I am. Nevermind the hundreds of postives I have. I don't have to accept her emails anymore and I don't.
I sent the item via Airmail but maybe the post office sent it ground? We will know shortly if it arrives.
As for insurance, I offer it on ALL transactions. You don't want to pay for it? Then any resulting problem is yours. I very rarely pay for it on my own purchases, but I know that the risk is mine. I would request confirmation of some sort that the seller mailed the item and would request that the seller try to get the shipper to find it, but that's the end of their responsibility if I choose not to get insurance.
I don't sit around worrying about negs. I look at my seller and if there is no pattern of issues, then I ignore a few baseless negs. I would expect my bidders to behave the same way.
posted on April 25, 2005 04:33:11 PM
"As for insurance, I offer it on ALL transactions. You don't want to pay for it? Then any resulting problem is yours."
Actually, Stormy, the problem is YOURS as the seller. If she doesn't receive the item, then it is YOUR responsibility.
BTW -- The new Paypal rules state 45 days to file a claim.
posted on April 25, 2005 05:05:47 PM
I've never seen anything concrete that says the seller is responsible for the package getting there. My belief is that the seller must provide proof of shipment at a minimum. I always hated to deal with this, because very few people used insurance, but every time there was a problem, the customer wanted a refund without exception. Not once did they say they did not take insurance, so they are out the money. For expensive items, I used to just insure things even if they didn't. Last year, I went to a flat rate package, and now everything is covered, so no worries for me.
As a buyer, I rarely take out insurance. I won't buy on ebay without paypal though. I'll give the seller 20 days, but if the package does not get here, I file a chargeback request. That is my insurance, I know that they need to show proof of delivery for me not to get my money back, and I don't have packages sent to my home. In the off chance they disappear from my private mail box, then they would be liable.
posted on April 25, 2005 05:20:40 PM
Stormy -- If you accept international Paypal payments, you are responsible for that package until it is in your customer's hands. If you cannot provide proof of your shipping that is acceptable by Paypal's rules, you are responsible.
posted on April 25, 2005 05:41:36 PM
If you sent it air letter post I don't think you can get insurance on that package. Did you put a customs form on her package and did you keep your PO receipt? If you did and the postal clerk scaned the customs form you do have a proof of mailing as that number will be on your receipt. Also if you had a customs form on your package the post office keeps the right hand side for about 30 days before they destroy it. Some might keep it longer.
posted on April 25, 2005 05:45:49 PM
bizzycrocheting, then why does Paypal and Ebay say that any problems with lost or damaged packages should be worked out with the shipper? They certainly don't state anywhere in their TOS that I am responsible for making sure it gets there. They do say I am responsible for mailing it.
What you are talking about are Paypal's rules for selling internationally. If I had sold it in the USA, they would have looked at my proof of shipping and told the bidder to go jump. Whether the package gets lost or not has NOTHING to do with that policy. That they won't accept ANY proof of shipping internationally is just the price of doing international sales.
posted on April 25, 2005 05:48:57 PM
No, you can't get insurance on Airmail Letter Post. You have to use Parcel Post AND pay for insurance.
I did have a customs form on the item and since that should be scanned, they should be able to say what happened to the package. But that will take time.
posted on April 25, 2005 06:02:38 PM
That's great. You know the post office they don't move fast but at least you have proof that you mailed it. When they say 30 days that is usually what it means. It always pays to put customs forms on even if they don't need them.
posted on April 25, 2005 06:08:55 PM
stormypetr. I have a guarantee in my about me page which gives canadian and international buyers instructions. I include that on my auction page in my Payment and Shipping details and make a clickable link to that. I want them to understand that I cannot insure the package and if they understand that then please bid.
posted on April 25, 2005 06:15:40 PM
Sorry, I have to disagree about her being responsible for "lost" mail. Once it leaves your hands, it becomes the responsibility of the party that took the package. The package is then out of your control. We're also not responsible for things that are stolen out of your mailbox. That's why having proof that it was mailed is important. I use signature confirmation on all items over $150 and DC on all others. PayPal states you need that on items over $250 if I'm not mistaken. There's little you can do with overseas packages except don't accept PayPal for them.
As for your bidder's package. . .tell them to check with customs. It's probably sitting there. She is now harrassing you and you might want to contact eBay. Use Live Help located on eBay's main page. They've always answered me promptly.
posted on April 25, 2005 06:24:45 PM
dbl - I am dealing with two lost international packages to customers right now. One is a Canadian - and the last one I'll ever ship to. I've got dozens o emails between us. As long as they hear from me, they are being patient. Another is a Brazilian... we are on day 35 and I hear from them three times every four days. Since I respond, and I give what info I have and yadda yadda yadda we have kept this on a friendly note, in fact the Brazilian has placed another order despite not getting the first one because I have kept communication open and friendly.
:: Why is it MY responsibility? I have no control over the package once it leaves my possession. ::
Because you pretend to be doing business. You have a responsibility to DELIVER THE PRODUCT, not just to drive to the post office.
::I sent the item via Airmail but maybe the post office sent it ground? We will know shortly if it arrives.::
Now see what you did... now I have to clean my moitor. I didn't know people old enough to have a credit card still tried to use that excuse.
Feel free to give her my email - it's [email protected]. Of course I highly doubt you'll appreciate any of the advice I give to her.
As for you, the only advice I have to offer is that you might want to stay away form international transactions unless until you have a full understanding of the process and responsibilities. It does not seem that you have taken the time to educate yourself in this area.
Libra - that customs receipt means nothing to anyone but the recieving country and the NSA if the package blows up or the makes a drug sniffing dog do the happy dance.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Apr 25, 2005 06:36 PM ]
posted on April 25, 2005 06:28:00 PM
So Cheryl... You purchase a circular saw from Sears.com and it doesn't arrive. Are you doing that chargeback for non reciept against the post office or against Sears?
I wonder how many sellers who believe that delivery is not their responsibility feel the same way when they are the buyer?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 25, 2005 06:49:11 PM
It's pretty stupid to post your email address on a bulletin board. How long do you think it will be before the spammers discover it?
posted on April 25, 2005 06:54:46 PM
As long as the buyer supplies the correct shipping information, and the seller properly labels and completes the necessary export documention, and tenders it to the carrier, it is neither the buyer's or seller's responsibility in the event of loss or damage. The total liability is upon the carrier to safely deliver the shipment. The question is, what is the extent of the carrier's liability? In the case of FedEx, UPS or for that fact, any carrier there will be a dollar amount of assumed liability built into the base rate. Excess liability is available for a fee. A bargain basement cut rate carrier like the Postal Service assumes NO liability in their base rate. You have to pay extra for any assumption of liability from penny one. The only reason they can get away with this is because they are a government agency, and none of the hundreds of state or federal court decisions concerning carrier liability applies to them. As soon as you received payment for that item, it became the buyer's property. If she had requested and paid for "insurance", you were obligated to purchase it at the time of shipping. The matter of assumption of liability on her property is totally her decision and responsibility, not the seller's. Stormy has no further obligation to this person. Report the emails to her ISP and move on. I do have a feeling that you will be reassessing your Paypal acceptance on international shipments before you hear the last of her, but that's another story.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on April 25, 2005 06:58:15 PM
You are exactly right,sparkz. I have often wondered how the USPS can get away with it. I am PAYING them to ship an item and deliver it in a safe and timely manner. Why should I have to pay more to guarantee that they do what I paid them to do? I have often thought that sellers should get together and file a class action about that.
posted on April 25, 2005 07:03:16 PM
Stormy - Spam it at will. I check it maybe once a month and then only when someone from this board tells me to. It exists soley to communicate with people from the board as needed.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 25, 2005 07:04:52 PM
Then how do you expect to help my bidder? I know she needs your help. She will get frustrated if you don't answer her. Maybe send you an email every 5 minutes.
[ edited by stormypetr on Apr 25, 2005 07:07 PM ]
[ edited by stormypetr on Apr 25, 2005 07:09 PM ]
posted on April 25, 2005 07:11:37 PM
Yes, but please remember that selling on eBay ain't an exercise in Talmudic hair-splitting!
I insure most everything thru DSI, mainly for MY peace-of-mind. I offer insurance (at only $1/$100 of value) because iffen I didn't, bidders would P&M about my NOT offering insurance
About half pay for it, which evens it all out!
That way, if the proverbial frist hits the fan, I can make my buyers SMILE.
Since 1999, never once has any of my 3000 shipments gotten lost -- and only one was damaged. She didn't BUY insurance, but I HAD & she was happy as a pig in poo!
Shipments overseas can take a long time to weasel thru CUSTOMS -- I just sent a radio to GREECE via AIRMAIL PARCEL POST & it took one month! CUSTOMS officiers in some of these places ain't exactly paid kingly wages, ya know?
"I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me."Guess Who? Washington D.C., April 14, 2005
posted on April 25, 2005 07:20:53 PM
We are probably selling different stuff, tOMWiii. Only about 10% of my bidders in the last 2 years have paid for insurance. Have you ever stopped to consider how much you have spent on insurance that you did not need to make a claim for? I am sure you could have paid for the one item lost MANY, MANY times over.
