posted on August 2, 2005 07:20:55 AM
to file a claim with Paypal against a seller?
Here's the story: I won an auction recently. There were 4 pattern books in the auction, but I was interested in only one because it was the only one with any value. I won it for around $30. I received the books and left pos fb. When I went to relist the one book with value I noticed that one of the pages was ripped out but still there, so no problem I'll describe it as such. But then I checked every page and one of the pages is missing. I contacted the seller and she offered me a partial refund. I wrote back saying that I didn't want a partial refund because the only book I was interested in is worthless and that I would like to return them for a full refund with shipping included.
I haven't heard back from her yet. I seriously doubt that I will. After the auction closed, she wrote to me and asked which one of the books caused the bidding to go so high and I explained which one and why. So she now knows that she will never get that amount again.
For those that don't know, a pattern book with a missing page is like buying an appliance only to have it arrive broken. It's worthless.
Unfortunately I paid with most of the funds available in my Paypal acount. Only $2.88 was charged to my credit card.
posted on August 2, 2005 07:33:59 AM
you can file complaint with Paypal within 30 days saying item is not as described.
If you win,Paypal will refund your purchase(shipping included) and ask you to return the items with tracking DC.
But if you have started listing one of the items,how are you going to return it if it has bid??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on August 2, 2005 07:36:22 AM
seems like the seller kind of acknowledged the problem when she offered you a partial refund. if you tell PP all that, it sounds like you'd have a good chance of getting a refund. might as well do it now. it'll either shake the seller loose and she'll offer a full refund, or you'll meet the 30-day PP deadline for filing.
posted on August 2, 2005 08:07:13 AM
Here is the exact e-mail I received from her:
"I was unaware of this issue. As I scanned through the booklet I didnot notice that it was missing. Please let me know how we can resolve this problem. I will be happy to refund a portion of the auction."
If she scanned through the book, she would have seen one of the pages was torn out and would have looked closely through the pages. In her description, it didn't say anything about a page being torn out.
So, either one of two things happened ... She either didn't scan through it like she said, or she sold it knowing that a page was missing.
Or 3rd thing: she scans less carefully than you do.
Her email sounds reasonable; have you asked her about a complete refund? I usually offer a partial refund in the first go-round, because it is a lot less hassle than providing a return authorization, receiving the item, checking that it's the item I originally sent, etc. But, if someone insists that they no longer want it, I defer to their wishes.
Claude
PS As a seller, if the very next thing I received after sending a reasonable email was a PayPal dispute notification, I'd be pissed off. She deserves another email.
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Aug 2, 2005 08:17 AM ]
posted on August 2, 2005 08:21:39 AM
Claude -- I sent her another e-mail this morning through Ebay. We'll see if she responds.
Also, we're not talking about a book with alot of pages. It is actually a leaflet with 25 pages. When I picked it up to list it, I noticed that one of the pages was sticking out a little further and that's when I discovered the page was torn out.
I'm going to be very very careful in the future with checking every single page of all of the items that I purchase. It would be very upsetting to a buyer if they bid high on an item, only to receive it with a page missing (like I did).
Diane
Edited to correct Claude's name. Need more coffee!
[ edited by bizzycrocheting on Aug 2, 2005 08:22 AM ]
You're probably right that 25 pages are easy to scan; even I could probably do it 3 out of 5 times .
Now that you've emailed her again, you're well within your rights to do whatever you wish if she fails to refund. My guess is that she'll defer to your request; let us know how it turns out.
I heard back from the seller. And she wanted to know if there was a table of contents. Kind of an odd request, but I explained that there wasn't. She then wrote back stating that if there wasn't a table of contents, then she didn't see how she could have missed the page because she would have had to go through the book.
At first, I thought she was accusing me of lying (and I guess she was). Then I realized that she's concerned that I may have photocopied it, ripped out the page and want to return it saying it's damaged.
Well, I wrote back and explained that it really doesn't matter how she missed it, but that she did. I then explained that I buy under one ID and seller under another. I gave her my selling ID to look at my auctions so that she knows I'm telling the truth. I then requested a refund in full.
posted on August 3, 2005 07:13:57 PM
I hate to be the bad guy here, but it sounds like the seller is trying to work with you. It's easy to miss something when listing - I'm sure most, if not all, of us have. I don't look at every page of a book, no matter how short, nor am I an expert in every area - she either just missed the tear or she thought it didn't matter.
Give her a chance to fix the problem. You sound angry in this posting, and I'm sure that's also coming through in your emails to her and has probably put her on the defensive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on August 3, 2005 07:40:06 PM
I AM giving her a chance, which is why I haven't filed with Paypal yet. Yes, I am angry. If she scanned through the item as she said she did, then she would have noticed AT THE VERY LEAST the page that was ripped out, which would have warranted a closer inspection. Instead, she is questioning ME as if I was lying to her. You would be p*ssed too!
posted on August 3, 2005 08:20:59 PM
it would piss me off if I were the seller that you are reselling my item as soon as you receive them.
But then it is just me,some sellers may feel flattered.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on August 4, 2005 04:25:13 AM
I just have to ask this, stop, but why would you care what your buyer does with the item after you have been paid for it? It's theirs to do anything that they wish with it!
Actually, I wasn't launching the listing until the end of September.
posted on August 4, 2005 06:03:51 AM
I always like to think the things I sell are going to a good home, to a collector, to an 'end user'. I know they don't - I sell a good bit to dealers - but it's nice to think of them being used in someones home, etc. Not sure why, perhaps part of it is knowing that you received the best price possible for an item, not that you sold it to cheap and someone else is going to make a bundle on it. It's just human nature.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on August 4, 2005 08:44:34 AM
back in the good old days when anything everything on Ebay sells,some guy will bid high and win the item,as soon as the auction closed,he will list the item copying not just the photos ,but the description-word for word.He got a neg from the seller??
True,the seller should not care what the buyer does with the item as long as he paid for it,but as soon as the auction closed and on the same venue?It is just too much.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on August 4, 2005 08:56:04 AM
Diane: I sympathise with you. It is so frustrating to get a book with pages missing. I went to about 7 collectible stores a couple of weeks ago and bought craft books and then found several pages missing in 2 of them when I went to scan them. Trouble is, I don't know what I bought from where.
It is true, it is easy to miss the fact that there are pages missing when you scan a book, especially one with a lot of pages, I have done it a couple of times. In both cases I returned the full amount of the payment, and told the buyer to keep the book, after all, it was my mistake.
posted on August 5, 2005 06:01:23 AM
My guess is that the seller is just not a crafts person and has no idea what is or is not important. With booklets like that one has a tendency to grab them at the spine with one hand and just fan it.
If nothing falls out, it doesn’t smell moldy and there are no major blots… it’s okay.
Can’t blame her for trying to be careful with all the stuff you read about inexperienced or fraudulent buyers. My guess is that she is not a really experienced seller.
At least not in that category.
posted on August 5, 2005 07:09:12 AM
I agree with you, Zugs, she may not be experienced in this category. I wrote her a couple of days ago explaining that I am a seller and even gave her my seller's ID so that she can check for herself. By now, she knows that there is no dishonesty on my part and that she made a mistake. Mistakes happen. As a seller, though, she does need to own up to her mistake and correct this situation.
She is not a new seller nor is she an inexperienced seller. She has a positive feedback rating of 639 out of 707 transactions (for both buying and selling). She also has been a member since 1998. I think that she sells across the board without having experience in any one particular category.
I will give her Monday, and if I don't hear back from her by then, will file.
posted on August 5, 2005 07:14:33 AM
I just wanted to add that I paid a total of $34.00 with shipping. So, I'm not talking about a few dollars. If it was just a few dollars, I would let it go.
Amber understands where I'm coming from because she also sells in my category. I rarely have a problem with buyers in my category, but have run into alot of problems with sellers. Some of the problems are pages missing rendering the item worthless (this isn't the first time), sending photocopies instead of the original leaflet, items missing from a lot (this happened to me with an experienced seller -- was supposed to send 37 leaflets and I received 22). I do understand why so many buyers are becoming disillusioned with Ebay.
I received an e-mail the other day from a buyer who thanked me profusely. She's had some sour transactions, but said that I restored her faith in Ebay again. That was a very nice compliment and made my day!
posted on August 5, 2005 03:52:22 PM
I can see why an Ebay seller is not thrilled to see someone reselling her items,especially so SOON!
It spells competition,even tho she may be paid for the item ,but when the same item resurface on Ebay,it competes with the other items in the same category.
This is a serious problem on AMZN,a professional bookseller who is selling books on AMZN has to compete with any one who bot a book,read it and decide to resell it as 'like new' for a lot less,AMZN does not charge a listing fee,just a commish of 15% when sold.
I dont know what is worse-dropshipping is a brilliant idea -just list an item with a picture and have someone drop ship for you,anyone can do it and no one makes any money doing it,except the dropshipper of course!!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on August 8, 2005 07:48:57 AM
Well, I received a response from the seller after I wrote to her yesterday saying that because she hadn't responded, I would be filing with Paypal. Here is her response:
"I had agreed to a partial refund and not a full refund. I also believe that the pages were there and intact. For this reason I have not responded to your emails."
She knows this isn't a case of buyer's remorse after learning that I was seller with the intentions of reselling the book. She just doesn't want to refund the money. I have filed with Paypal.
posted on August 8, 2005 10:42:58 AM
Bizzy, can I ask you something?
When you sell a "lot" of something, do you consider the price to be on the full lot, or just the value of one piece in the lot?
I understand you have a loss here for all intents and purposes that you expected from your purchase, but I am just wondering if there is any rule of thumb a seller refunds the whole of the monies because of one thing in the lot?
Curious to know what others think of this as well.
posted on August 8, 2005 10:53:25 AM
In my opinion, it depends on what's in the lot. Say you sold 12 place settings of china (6 pieces in each setting). Suppose every saucer arrived broken... I doubt that they buyer would be happy with a 1/6 refund (i.e., the entire purchase is not usable now). This is sometimes a problem insurance-wise, in that 12 place settings probably ship in 2 or more boxes; I want insurance for the entire value placed on each box, but have no fraudulent desire to collect 2x if both boxes get lost.
For other items, say a gross of ink cartridges, I would expect to refund 1/12 if 1 dozen is missing. The 11 dozen are not useless because 1 dozen went away. I would, as a matter of customer service, be willing to accept a return/full refund, but I would grumble to myself.
posted on August 8, 2005 12:57:51 PM
It can be hard to determine the value on a lot of crochet books. The reason being is because some are worth much more than the others. The other 3 books that were in the lot are literally flooded all over ebay and aren't worth much, if anything at all. If she put the other books up for auction individually, she MAY get $2.00 per book, IF she's lucky. With something like this auction, where there are 4 books but only one has value, you can't take $30.00 and divide by 4 and give that as a refund.
The seller had e-mailed me JUST AFTER THE AUCTION CLOSED, wanting to know which book caused the auction to close so high. I had explained which one it was and why. It is a highly sought-after book that is no longer in print and that it was the only reason why I bid on the auction.
She knows that she can't put the book with value up for auction again, and would be out the money for the auction that I spent on it. BUT, she wouldn't have the money in the first place if she had checked to ensure every page was there in the first place. Now, she's trying to stick me with the loss.
posted on August 8, 2005 01:19:13 PM
To expand on dlb's question, if there is a lot 12 of the same type of magazine but different issues, and one of the issues was missing pages, then I would agree to take the total amount divide it by 12 and take that as a partial refund.
I actually have had this come up. I bought a lof of 36 leaflets. When they arrived, only 22 were in the package. I tried to contact the seller, but she was trying to dodge me (saying she was out of town until a certain date -- yep! It was the day after I could file a claim with Paypal.) I did file with Paypal and agreed to a partial refund (at the time of filing) for the 14 leaflets that were missing by taking the total amount and dividing it by 36 and then multiplying it by 14. Amazingly, she wasn't out-of-town anymore and agreed to the partial refund immediately.
In over 1200 transactions that I have had as a buyer, I rarely have a problem that escalates to filing with Paypal. In each instance, I have tried to work it out with the seller first.
posted on August 9, 2005 05:18:34 PM
What makes you entitled to a full refund when at no point have you even mentioned sending the package back.
Regardless of the "value" or "worthlessness" of the other books/leaflets/papers I don't think you are entitled to keep them and get a full refund on the one single portion of the order that you find to have "value"
Whether or not the other pieces are worth $2 or 5 cents the seller should get everything shipped BACK.
You are being unreasonable by demanding a full refund yet keeping everything.
posted on August 9, 2005 05:34:06 PM
Did I miss something in this long thread? I didn't see where bizzy was going to keep the books; if that is the intention, PayPal won't go along with it AT ALL!
.
Caroline