posted on November 15, 2005 03:42:42 PM
I've been an Ebay seller since 1998. Generally high priced items. Average $1000. Range from $50 to $15000. My listings rose steadily from 1998-2002. Been in decline since then as the whole supply demand equation has changed and it's no longer as profitable, when you take into account the time and fees involved. Since 2002 my listings have steadily decreased, and my average priced item has also decreased to the 100-500 range. I'm now just an occassional seller. That being said Ebay fees are ridiculous. I'm now paying about 3% for the priveledge of listing a $125 item on Ebay, that has a 20% sell thru rate and if it does sell it rarely brings more than 25% over what I could just get from a dealer. And if it does sell I face final value fees and Paypal fees of an additional 8-10%. It's depressing, not fun or profitable, and just not worth it anymore unless you have something truly rare and unusual.
[ edited by longtime1 on Nov 15, 2005 03:43 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2005 03:58:09 PM
I can't speak to the general decline of your business, but if you're paying 8-10% between final value fees and PayPal, you must be selling items for less than a dollar.
posted on November 15, 2005 04:05:55 PM
how so Claude? The minimum PP fee is 30 cents - that's 30% of less than a dollar! On the other hand - ebay FVF of 5.25% for non-store item + 2.5% PP merchant account fee equal 7.75% - throw in Vendio fees...listing fees (lots for unsold items)....OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
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posted on November 15, 2005 04:05:56 PM
Understood. It's just a different world is all. I've been on eBay since 1996, probably longer than most of the members of this board, and my total fees never did vary much from then till now -- about 10% overall (since I use PP's debit card, I only figure 1.2% after rebate for those transactions).
Let me compare this to the real world outside of eBay: Any antique show I do costs a minium of $350 to $500 in booth fees, gas, motel, etc. It's becoming difficult to exceed the 10 times your expense equation. Let's not even talk about leaving at 5 am and getting home five days later at 1 am, or the lugging of boxes, furniture AND the time involved.
Any auction consignment I do costs a minimum of 20%. A brick and mortar store ... who knows? A "spot in the mall" -- most dealers I know end up paying 30-40% of their revenue in space rental and commissions and credit card fees when customer pays with CC (and certainly there are exceptions here).
Time and effort on eBay? You bet. An amazing exposure to customers all over the world? You bet. More money for certain things than you'd ever have the nerve to ask "in person?" You bet.
It may not be worth it anymore to many sellers, including the OP (original poster). I know I like it when it ticks while I'm away and it's a perfect add-on for certain items that I could never find a customer for (or wait a very long time to find) at conventional venues.
$1 was an exaggeration, but if, as longtime1 says, he's selling at an average price of between $100 and $500, there's no way. At the low end of his range ($100), the final value fee is 3.37%, PayPal is 3.2%= 6.57%. At the high end it's 2.87% FVF and 2.96%PP fee = 5.83%.
To reach FVF + PP fees of 8% means your ASP is $38.71. To reach 10%, the asp is $15.29.
I exaggerated, obviously, but it takes a lot lower ASP than $100-$500 to hit his numbers.
Edited to add: I was using 2.9% + $0.30 for PP; the numbers are even more along my lines of argument using 2.5%.
Vendio and listing fees were not included in the 8-10% discussion.
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Nov 15, 2005 05:52 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2005 05:57:34 PM
As I've said elsewhere, I don't know how antiques and collectibles dealers survive on eBay. It's just unreasonable. And I don't understand why eBay has allowed the market to deteriorate to this point. They're losing money when fewer items are listed.
Here's my modest proposal for Meg the next time she calls me late at night on my cellphone:
Split off the antiques and collectibles into a separate market, just like eBay Motors is separate. Call the new market eBay Treasures or eBay Attic Finds or...I'm sure someone can come up with a better name.
Set attractive promotional fees for the new eBay Treasures to get the dealers back, and structure the permanent fee table so that front-end fees are lower and back-end fees are higher.
I understand that eBay started out selling antiques and collectibles mostly (I was there and listed my first item when it was AuctionWeb), but there's no reason why Clarice Cliff pottery and Maxfield Parrish calenders need be sold in the same venue as hemorrhoid treatments, cellphones and Disney videos.
posted on November 15, 2005 06:06:14 PM
Listing on Yahoo auctions is free (easy bulk loader). Might be worth listing some items. Maybe refer some of your customers there.
posted on November 15, 2005 06:57:41 PM
I've thought the same thing, Fluff..eBay's such a monstrously large inefficient mega-pile and since there is apparently no hope for search algo's equal to the task; why not follow the example of Motors?
It would, (assuming they could / would follow through) allow for much better indexing, expanded categorization and a number of other taxonomy enhancements.
Really, the best thing they could do (but never will) is to break off a category like antiques and let the results speak for themselves; let the market define itself.
Increasing the sell-through will get them the revenue they crave...eBay is a "stumble-upon" model; strangely changeless compared to the evolution of the web.
posted on November 15, 2005 07:12:42 PM
Sounds like a good suggestion to me, but doubt they would implement it. I think they worked hard to homogenize the entire site. It wasn't that long ago they got rid of specifics for the categories I sell in, and lump everything together.
posted on November 15, 2005 07:25:53 PM
I've long been an advocate of splitting Ebay into two sites, new and used. The two cannot co-exist much longer under the same roof. While we all know Ebay from day one has been an evolving marketing experiment, it's still a proven and basic concept of business that you don't go to WalMart to shop for a 100 year old set of Royal Doulton or Spode china, and you don't go to an antique shop to buy a new set of Craftsman tools or a new outboard motor for your fishing boat. Just because 2 people have the title "Ebay Seller", doesn't mean they are catering to the same buyers.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
[ edited by sparkz on Nov 15, 2005 08:19 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2005 07:47:27 PM
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Fluffy is correct.....I am an antique and collectible seller and you can not survive on Ebay as it is presently presented, unless you misrepresent or somehow conspire to scam the system or the buyer. Ebay is merely a very minor sidelight right now as I reorganize my business online and offline. I would have no problem with lower front end fees and higher FVF. When that cell phone rings fluffy, tell Meg you've heard from at least one seller that agrees. And I also agree with the split off. The reasons mentioned by many above make total sense. One thing for sure. I'm not sitting listing like I used to.....no need for hemorroid treatments.
Make that two sellers that would like to see a change such as the one you're suggesting. Brilliant!
Although .... considering that I completely stopped listing on primitives and folk art and antique quilts because of the sheer enormity of new items and repros that clutter up those categories and probably many others, perhaps it's not really the venue after all.
In truth, it may just be the state of the antique and collectible marketplace itself on or off eBay. A whole other discussion, that.
posted on November 15, 2005 09:06:24 PM
Great idea Fluff - though a lot of my sales are impulse and not to real postcard collectors. I'd probably lose biz in a marletplace set up like that.
Claude - sorry I forgot that ebay has the sliding fee structure (needless to say, my cards are priced closer to the "below a dollar" cut-off than the $1,000.)
posted on November 15, 2005 10:36:20 PM
Good ideas, Fluffy. And I have to tell you I love Clarice Cliff! Discovered it about 3 years ago and invested in a couple of pieces.
______________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
--Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on November 16, 2005 05:51:30 AM
I think the fees on the back end would help tremendously, especially with more incentive to list. I'm not so sure seperating collectables/antiques would do so much, if its all search driven anyway?
oh and edit to add: I found out too Fed Ex's rates went up last week. (This is what they told me) but if you have an online account it's supposed to be a bit cheaper - maybe 10% or so.
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posted on November 16, 2005 08:32:20 AM
Well, put an ad for your things in a newspaper and see how expensive that is! Then put an ad in newspapers around the world and see how expensive that is!
Ebay costs money but everything else I've ever tried is MORE expensive, more time consuming and more labor intensive.
Want expense, want to work 24 hours a day ? Open a brick and mortar shop.
I like the idea of seperating antiques from the rest for buying but NOT for selling
