ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 15, 2007 11:39:07 AM new
I don't bid often but I did bid on and won an item last month. After about 2 weeks I wrote the seller and asked for the tracking information as I had not gotten the item. She said she didn't have a tracking number but would check the post office for a status. Next week - no word - asked again - nothing.
So I go to paypal and open a dispute. She replied that the post office said it was delivered on xx/xx/xx (but they couldn't give her a way to track it - only the post office could track it) and that she had insured it for $70. She said they told her that if I keep saying that I had not received the item that she should notify the post office at such and such number. Then she did something strange - SHE escalated it to a claim??
I called and paypal said they had asked her for tracking and if she didn't provide that withing 10 days, I would receive a refund.
Today she gave them a number but when I tried to track it - the UPSP site said it wasn't a track-able number. She is giving them the insurance number.
Here's my concern - what if the post office did deliver it to the wrong address and someone signed my name. Will paypal check beyond the online tracking? If I don't get the refund do I have another option?
I would like to have something in writing to paypal but the only option I have at this point is to close the claim which I don't intent to do as I never received the item.
Is this a really stupid seller or could it be that she is very good at fraud.
Help anyone?? TIA
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 15, 2007 01:35:24 PM new
As far as I know, when a package is insured you have to sign for it. If she didn't use DC, I think she's out of luck. She needs to refund your money and file a claim with the post office to get the money back. The post office would know if it were delivered because it had to be signed for, but I don't think PayPal takes it that far. If someone else signed for it, they did it from your house. Does your mail carrier know who you are? Mine knows me and the people who live in my house. I'm quite confident he wouldn't allow anyone else to sign for it.
Cheryl
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pixiamom
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posted on July 15, 2007 01:38:32 PM new
Notify the seller and PayPal that the tracking number is not valid, put the ball back in her court.
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scott53
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posted on July 15, 2007 01:40:44 PM new
Keep your claim open. PayPal will refund your money because the seller cannot prove delivery. If it was delivered to the wrong address, that is her problem, not yours. If she had used delivery confirmation, she could prove delivery, even if it was to the wrong address.
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pmelcher
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posted on July 15, 2007 02:08:10 PM new
I just learned on Friday that the new insurance forms from the Post Office are NOT trackable by anyone but them. My Postie told me that only DC was trackable now. I find that strange now that insurance fees went up and over $50.00 in insurance USED TO BE trackable. I am pretty sure without DC she is out of luck and has to refund. I never get DC and have been lucky so far and I bet that is what she did.
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 15, 2007 02:41:59 PM new
I called paypal and the only thing I can do with paypal at this point is close the claim - there is no way to reply - NONE.
I think the seller knows it's the wrong number but she hopes paypal won't check. pmelcher - maybe you could be right and she thinks it's tracking but she told me she didn't put tracking on it - so I doubt that's the case.
Cheryl - there are only 2 people in my house and my husband didn't sign for it either.
She said it was delivered on Sat at 12:42 and we are out on our normal garage sale/thrift store day. We never get home until after 3 or 4 PM.
I don't really know my postman and I know they rotate routes from time to time. All I know for sure is that it wasn't left at this house.
Guess I'll call the post office tomorrow and see if I can find out anything.
[ edited by ladyjewels2000 on Jul 15, 2007 02:42 PM ]
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merrie
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posted on July 15, 2007 02:43:06 PM new
You only have to sign for packages for $100 or more. Packages insured for up to $50 do not require a signature. I have had packages that showed delivery, but it was insured for over $100 and the customer did not sign for the package. PO paid the claim.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on July 15, 2007 03:20:15 PM new
Some years ago I bought $400 worth of jewelry from another eBay seller. I never received it. I filed a PayPal claim, and the seller followed up with the Post Office. He had insured the package but he had NOT put Delivery Confirmation on it.
PayPal refunded my money.
The seller contacted me about a month later, wanting to cut some sort of deal to soften his loss. I am still not sure exactly what he had in mind, but he said that the Post Office had denied his insurance claim because they had internal tracking that showed the package was delivered, even though it hadn't been signed for. His subsequent assumption was that the package had been left by the carrier and stolen off my front porch.
So he was out the money and the jewelry.
I'll bet he puts DC on all his packages now.
fLufF
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 16, 2007 08:19:58 AM new
I called the number and they confirmed that it shows delivered to my zip. He suggested that I ask my postman if he remembers delivering it. He also said that the USPS doesn't require a signature for anything under $200 since the increase. Sure didn't know that.
Fluffy - your seller would love what he said next. He said if you file a claim it is always denied the first time so you need to appeal it to get the refund.
Well at least I know now that she isn't a con-artist.
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 18, 2007 02:55:03 PM new
Update
After I called the post office and confirmed that it was really shipped, I email the seller and suggested to her that we could file a claim with the post office as it was insured. I was more than willing to sign a statement that I had never received it - blah blah blah. That was on Monday. I still have not heard from her.
I just got a notice from paypal that I would receive a full refund. I wonder if she will take me up on my offer now???
[ edited by ladyjewels2000 on Jul 25, 2007 09:17 AM ]
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 25, 2007 09:19:52 AM new
Updated Update - I just logged into paypal and noticed that the claim is still open. The seller appealed the claim and provide something from the post office. I called and paypal said she had provided another tracking number and a statement from the post office that the package was delivered - I'm sure it was delivered but just not to me!! I was told that the refund would probably be reversed as she had now provide correct tracking.
When I hung up I try to track the "NEW" tracking number and it was the same old insurance number. Still not track-able
I never even got a notice that the claim was reopened. The seller isn't interested in filing a USPS claim, so if paypal reverses it - am I just out of luck? I paid insurance for something I never received but I can't file a claim and she won't.
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pixiamom
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posted on July 25, 2007 09:39:18 AM new
So what insurance does the Post Office provide for articles less than $200? according to the USPS website, the sending post office has no record of insured items. The receiving post office maintains records of delivery for a certain amount of time (not specified) but not proof of delivery. You can purchase that separately as Delivery Confirmation, unless it is a first class flat or letter - Delivery confirmation is only available for parcels.
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 25, 2007 02:07:21 PM new
I don't know what to do at this point if paypal reverses the claim. I think that the least paypal can do is ask the seller to send them or me the insurance ticket so I can file a USPS claim.
I feel so helpless as I have no way to contact paypal expect by phone and who knows what they write down.
Pixiamon - It's really discouraging that purchasing insurance under $200 isn't worth much if the seller refuses to help file the claim. What can a buyer do?
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 25, 2007 03:00:20 PM new
Report this to the US Postal Inspectors. You can get the phone number from the USPS site.
Call them up and discuss with them. Explain that you need their help and ask if you should file a report with your local police as apparently someone is stealing packages - could it be the delivery person?
Don't be harsh with them, but suggest that you're looking for guidance and help from them. If they don't seem helpful, hang up and call back. Get one of them who gives a damn and you'll get the wheels rolling. Someone is stealing from you - you just need to start reporting it to everyone who will listen and let your local police department know - and insist on filing a report if the Postal Inspectors won't help.
I had a customer that said they didn't receive their item -- and, said their local post office would not talk to her about a claim of non-delivery. I called the Postal Inspectors and they said she could call them and give them the particulars and they would follow up. I did - and haven't heard a word back from this buyer and that was more than a month ago.
Keep us informed.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
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deichen
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posted on July 26, 2007 05:48:28 AM new
Am I understanding this correctly? Do we now HAVE to have DC in addition to insurance? I have always heard that DC is not really very great (I use the free one for Priority). Is there a difference between the free one and the one purchased?
If we have to insure every package and PAY for DC or Signature Confirmation. Sellers shipping cost make buying not worthwhile on a lot of products.
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birgittaw
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posted on July 26, 2007 06:46:16 AM new
Case perfectly illustrates why one should NEVER pay for an eBay purchase with anything but a credit card. Buyer protection, seller protection -- neither works and it's always whatever shoe you're wearing that hurts!
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pixiamom
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posted on July 26, 2007 07:01:46 AM new
Deichen, without Delivery confirmation, all the post office has is their recorded date of delivery, no proof of delivery if the item is insured for less than $200.
[ edited by pixiamom on Jul 26, 2007 07:02 AM ]
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deichen
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posted on July 26, 2007 08:02:43 AM new
Then why does the post office allow us to purchase insurance without DC? This seems so wrong! I have filed claims before but never for lost packages, just broken items.
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 26, 2007 08:54:21 AM new
Wayne that's very good advice but at the point don't you think I would need to wait until paypal decides what they will do. Right now the money is still in my account. In my last phone conversation with paypal, I was told that I would have time to respond if paypal reopens the claim.
birgittaw - That is a wonderful idea and I plan to do that next time. Believe it or not - my husband has found another item just like the lost one and wants me to bid on it for him. I don't have a card on file with PP - is one better then the other and is it hard to pay with a card instead of a cash balance?
deichen - It is supposed to be part of the seller's protection with PP that requires a DC. If this claim is reversed, then PP isn't going by their own rules and I'm the loser. Doesn't seem right to me at all. I'm still hoping that PP won't reverse. After all the seller can still file a claim with the USPS. But I don't think she'll file a claim for me if she get the money back.
If PP does reverse the claim the least they can do is require that she release the insurance claim to me or to them. Somehow I don't see that happening.
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birgittaw
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posted on July 26, 2007 09:38:32 AM new
Lady: You have to add a credit card to your PayPal account. Then you need to completely empty your PayPal account and run through a series of hoops before they permit you to use a credit card. It will NOT permit you to pay with CC if you even have a penny in it.
When you first to go pay, it will default to paying with your balance, but right underneath is "other options." It will ask you if you're SURE you want to do this.
To make it easier, and it's also a good idea, why not open a second eBay account in your husband's name and use it only for buying. That way you don't co-mingle FBs and no one knows what you're buying (unlike my friend who bought three watches on eBay and turned right around to try to sell them, while the info was right on his recent FB!). With another account you can go directly to paying with cc.
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on July 26, 2007 03:37:44 PM new
Well she won the appeal.
She never provided a valid tracking numbers so that rule is a crock. I will still use DC and hope everyone else does too.
But here is the good news. Paypal won't refund the money back to her (if I can believe what they tell me after so many lies) I have to do that myself. I don't know what paypal will do if I don't refund it, but at least this gives me back some options. I can tell her I'll refund the money when she sends me the insurance ticket.
I'm so pissed that paypal lied to me yesterday. Made it sound like I would have time to respond if they re-opened the case. It was already re-opened and then closed today.
birgittaw - You better believe I will. Thanks so much for the help. You can bet this won't happen to me again.
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grantje
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posted on July 27, 2007 09:29:51 PM new
deichen: To the best of my knowledge, the free Delivery Confirmation that is included with Priority Mail when you print your own label is the same exact one you can pay for. It's only the price that is different (free).
Yahoo ID: grantje
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merrie
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posted on July 28, 2007 06:16:44 AM new
grantje: The free DC is not the same as the one you pay for at the PO according to my PO people. The free DC justs says that the customer reported the package as mailed. Once the package is in fact reported as delivered, it is basically the same, but if the item gets "lost" you cannot definitively prove the item was actually mailed.
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grantje
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posted on July 28, 2007 10:37:00 PM new
I believe this is why some sellers continue to hand their packages to a clerk over the counter, and bring their home-printed DC label receipt. At the counter, the clerk will (or at least should) "round stamp" the receipt, and this (along with a receipt if you pay for postage at that time) can serve as proof of mailing the package.
Otherwise, all you get (and only at some POs, and not on a guaranteed basis) is an origin DC scan, but that is not as good as a round stamp on a receipt and having the payment receipt (which should show the DC number as well).
To my knowledge, the PO is not required to do an origin scan - DC only requires one scan to be performed when the package is actually delivered. If it gets any additional scans en route, those are merely a bonus.
Yahoo ID: grantje
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tomwiii
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posted on July 29, 2007 05:22:22 AM new
"To my knowledge, the PO is not required to do an origin scan - DC only requires one scan to be performed when the package is actually delivered. If it gets any additional scans en route, those are merely a bonus."
This is CORRECT, because the PO states in many places that DELIVERY CONFIRMATION is NOT tracking...
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