merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 05:34:48 AM new
Don't do it!!
I have a buyer that insisted on an item being sent to an unconfirmed address when paying via PayPal. My terms are very clear, only CONFIRMED addresses, after going around and around for a week, (He has 3 addresses, one on Ebay, one on Paypal, one he requested)I refunded his money and filed a FVF with mutual agreement reason. WRONG!! Even though on the second pull down I noted request to ship to an unconfirmed address, he said he still wanted to complete the deal. Ebay closed the dispute, no FVFs refunded, etc.
Lesson learned, do NOT use the mutal agreement reason!!
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Cashinyourcloset
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posted on December 8, 2007 05:42:54 AM new
eBay even warns you not to use it unless you have an agreement with the buyer beforehand.
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 06:03:38 AM new
Yes, they do warn you, but I did have an agreement and it doesn't seem fair to say "Buyer did not pay" which is the only other option on the first pull down, when they in fact, did pay.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on December 8, 2007 06:22:41 AM new
If he got his money back, he didn't pay.
If someone writes you a check and it bounces, they haven't paid.
I get a lot of ticked-off people who don't want to register a credit card with PayPal. Tough noogies.
fLufF
--
100% certified cancer-free and polyp-free.
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 07:12:15 AM new
You're right Fluff, now I know, no more Mrs nice gal!! This guy kept telling me to be reasonable and sensible. I will copy his nasty reply to the dispute!!
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neglus
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posted on December 8, 2007 07:31:19 AM new
Merrie - I don't think that EBay even reads the responses. They don't make a ruling. They just log that you have answered and alerts you when the other party answers. The EBay dispute is not arbitration - it is supposed to make it easier for both sides to communicate. You need to file a NPB not a mutual.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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cashinyourcloset
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posted on December 8, 2007 07:47:48 AM new
The way eBay has it set up, the seller is forced to believe/not believe the buyer that they'll respond in the affirmative to the Mutual Agreement. If the buyer is a snake, they can avoid strikes by convincing the seller and then disagreeing. It's an incentive to be dishonest; it's a stupid way to do it.
It would be sensible for a BUYER to file for a mutual agreement rather than the seller; the seller would then have the option of agreeing or filing a UID of their own.
Alternatively, eBay could allow a second UID only in the case where a mutual agreement was started by the seller and rejected by the buyer.
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 07:47:50 AM new
Here is his response. I cannot do anything now, the dispute is closed and they will not allow me to do anything further with thei item #.
Lesson learned.
"I would like the item sent to me primary address as listed in my ebay acct.(Lie, this address is not listed anywhere: Ebay address Wyoming, PayPal is Buffalo, MN) I do have have three homes
and she seems to judge this as some kind of frudulant behavior. I purchased the item in good faith
and would like to have it sent to where I am presently at my home in Bemidji Minnesota. I have
purchased many many things off ebay without ever having this problem. (Feedback 45, registered in 2004) It is seller like this that
can give e bay a bad name."
I told him to confirm the address he wants it sent to and he refused. I also said I would send it anyhwere if he sent a check or money order!! I certainly do give Ebay a "bad name."
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vintageads4u
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posted on December 8, 2007 07:51:12 AM new
Can't you report him/her to eBay for bad address?
And, question for my own edification: Can you do a second NPB if you did the first mutual deal, even tho it did break down?
Beth
Antique Ad Shop
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 08:03:45 AM new
Beth, apparently no. You cannot file another dispute with the same item #. I tried it and it would not allow it.
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zippy2dah
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posted on December 8, 2007 08:42:43 AM new
If he really does have three homes the addresses aren't bad and a report would be futile.
I had a similar struggle with an arrogant buyer. Mine demanded that I send something to a third party in a different country and would not even begin to understand why I would not want to accept PP for such a transaction. We went back and forth in emails (stupid, I know) until I finally wised up and decided she was more bother than she was worth and started to ignore her completely. That worked. She sent a money order the next day.
"This guy kept telling me to be reasonable and sensible."
lol! Why do only unreasonable people demand this of others?
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wrightsracing
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posted on December 8, 2007 08:48:27 AM new
You can let ebay know of the problem.. and demand you want your fee's back...
I sent them 3 emails..
I did and it worked.. I got my fee back...
some buyers do not understand and want to be cheats....
I am not going to give ebay any more money then I have to.. and really not going to when I didn't get paid for an item....
Try it.. it will work...
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 09:41:52 AM new
Just because he has 3 houses, if he does, doesn't help me.Only one is confirmed with Paypal and that is not the one he wants things shipped to. It is not even the one on file with Ebay. His emails were abrupt and rude saying I was being unreasonable. He claims to have hundreds of tansactions, but he has 45 feedback, very few recent and has been on Ebay for several years. I have just learned a lesson and in the scheme of things a cheap one. It would have cost me more if I had shipped to the address he wanted and lost a PayPal dispute. From now on, I am not even acknowledging requests for alternate shipping. Whatever address is listed as confirmed is the one where the package is going. I will ignore those requests in the Notes section.
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tomwiii
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posted on December 8, 2007 10:07:29 AM new
merrie:
This is a common scam -- as soon as ya ship to the UNCONFIRMED ADDRESS, he files a PP complaint for UNDELIVERED GOODS, and guess what? YOU LOSE!
You can ALMOST NEVER go wrong by sticking to yer guns and FOLLOWING THE RULES!
"What me worry?" "childrens do learn"
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merrie
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posted on December 8, 2007 10:40:01 AM new
tom, you got it and now so do I!!
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cashinyourcloset
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posted on December 8, 2007 10:45:20 AM new
Every auction of ours states:
"If you pay with PayPal, this item will be shipped to the Confirmed Address on the PayPal payment notification mailed to us."
and in our boilerplate:
If you intend to pay with PayPal, we only accept PayPal with PayPal Confirmed Addresses in the US and that is where the shipment will go (please do not ask for an exception). If you need shipment to another location, please pay using some other method.
and we still get requests to ship elsewhere. But, we stick to our TOS.
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tomwiii
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posted on December 8, 2007 10:59:30 AM new
What's DOUBLY sad about this particular scam is that not only do ya lose da moola, but you lose the item as well...
Sneaky Ralphie likes to take his laptop and (in the middle of the night, when he knows his Daddy is asleep) play in some nasty newsgroups devoted to all kind of NASTINESS, including, but not limited to: MONKEY-PORN; Herbal Viagra; Weight-Loss Pills; Kevin Trudeau; and...SCAMS!
He has related to me that THIS particular scenario is COMMON KNOWLEDGE in some of da nastiest groups on Usenet...There are folks who feed their MONKEY-PORN addictions solely via this scam...
Sad, but TRUE! Just ask Ralphie...
"What me worry?""childrens do learn"
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ST0NEC0LD613
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posted on December 9, 2007 09:32:47 PM new
Tom is both right and wrong on this one.
First I will get the wrong out of the way.
He is dead wrong that this one was a scam. It is very common around here for someone to have two or three homes. With all of the lakes that we have in our state, many people will have homes here in the Twin Cities plus lake homes or cabins out state. It is likely this person's main home is Wyoming Minnesota with lake places in Buffalo and up north in Bemidji.
That said, Tom does have it correct about why you should not accepted any unconfirmed payment. PayPal with it's seller unprotection policy is not your friend. You did the correct thing by not accepting the unconfirmed payment. Personally, I would have offered him Google check out. He could have confirmed his location within minutes and you could have completed the transaction. But since you didn't, it's clear that you did learn a lesson. At least it wasn't an expensive one in this case.
[ edited by ST0NEC0LD613 on Dec 11, 2007 11:58 AM ]
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merrie
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posted on December 10, 2007 06:25:35 AM new
STONE: I am not concerned that a person has 3, 4 or 17 houses, but to ship with PayPal the item needs to go to a confirmed address. So if you have multiple houses, confirm the address you want items sent to or don't expect sellers who clearly state their terms to comply with your wishes for your convenience and at the seller's inconvenience.I accept other forms of payment.
Also, this person was rude, he kept telling me to be sensible and reasonable. Then he had the nerve to deny the mutual agreement that we had so I could not get my FVF back. He said "It is sellers like this that give e bay a bad name."sic
If everything was on the up and up, why so angry. He did not lose anything. The item was not unique and he would have paid more for it than usual. I actually would have loved to complete the transaction and move an item for more than it normally goes for.
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zippy2dah
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posted on December 10, 2007 09:01:32 AM new
Are you going to neg him?
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merrie
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posted on December 10, 2007 09:54:07 AM new
Do you think I should neg him??
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mcjane
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posted on December 10, 2007 12:29:29 PM new
No, don't neg, it won't hurt him at all, but when he returns the neg it might hurt you & at the very least it won't do you any good.
Think about this. How many times do you check a bidders FB, probably never unless a problem shows up.
I never check a bidders FB & couldn't care less about it, but I always check a sellers.
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NEGLUS
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posted on December 10, 2007 12:35:52 PM new
Can he reopen for mutual withdrawal if you neg him? I don't know - just asking.
FWIW: I don't know how much $ your item sold for, but I always ship to whatever address and have never been burned. (In 35,000 mostly low ticket transactions).
Anyhow - he didn't meet the TOS and did not pay and is being a butt-head. I think you are within your rights to neg but you can expect one in return. You have to decide if it's worth it.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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merrie
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posted on December 10, 2007 04:25:05 PM new
I think I will pass on the neg. It would probaby p*ss him off more than me even if he reciprocated since I have a much bigger buffer with my number of feedbacks, but like it has been said, he taught me a lesson. No more mutuals for FVF and time to move on. Whether he is / was a scam artist or not, he did not get my product. I could see if he is bidding on another, but really who cares? I am sticking to my guns, no shipping to unconfirmed, no matter what the sob story is. Since my Paypal is set up to only accept confirmed addresses when these characters write their requests in the "Notes" I am just going to conveniently not "note"ice them and send the item to the confirmed address as listed in PayPal. Maybe a few of those and they will stop this game.
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ST0NEC0LD613
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posted on December 11, 2007 12:02:29 PM new
STONE: I am not concerned that a person has 3, 4 or 17 houses, but to ship with PayPal the item needs to go to a confirmed address.
Isn't that what I said in my second paragraph?
I guess I didn't make the lesson part clear. I meant the part about not filing a mutual agreement to not complete the transaction. I bet you never do that again.
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merrie
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posted on December 11, 2007 02:12:31 PM new
Stone: you were clear. I was just reiterating that even if this was not a scam (he really had several houses) that customers should not request things that go against the TOS. They also should not be angry if the seller sticks to his or her rules.
You are right, I will not do that again!! No more mutuals at all!! FVF are going to be filed as "Buyer did not pay."
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ST0NEC0LD613
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posted on December 11, 2007 09:14:33 PM new
No argument there.
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mingotree
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posted on December 12, 2007 12:30:53 AM new
Wouldn't 75 cents worth of Delivery Confirmation made this simpler?
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cashinyourcloset
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posted on December 12, 2007 04:20:57 AM new
mingotree,
In a word, NO.
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