parkman
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posted on December 26, 2007 04:04:04 AM
I had a (fairly) newbie (21 fbs) email me last night to say their package arrived broken on Dec 24. They even commented on how well it was packed and how the post office must have really mishandled it. I think it would have take close to a bomb to break it but that is beside the point. I offer insurance as optional but also state I am not responsible if not insured. It is not a high priced item but I paid a little more for shipping to send it priority so they would have it for Christmas so it cost more than what I charged the customer. I normally would just refund but considering I paid more for shipping and I KNOW how well it was packed and she declined insurance I am hesitating just a little on refunding. I usually listen to some of the folks on here...so opinions please.
Thanks and hope everyone has a MERRY CHRISTMAS!! I know I did...I had 30 family members at my house for dinner and it was wonderful!!!
Joyce
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mingotree
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posted on December 26, 2007 04:39:13 AM
How do you know it's broken?
They admitted you packed it well and the PO must've broken it.
Why should you refund the money?
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merrie
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posted on December 26, 2007 05:38:53 AM
If you packed it well and they declined insurance, end of story. No refund. They will probably take insurance the next time if they lose their money this time. Why should you be penalized?
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jtomp
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posted on December 26, 2007 06:01:09 AM
I would be very polite but decline to refund as they did not purchase the insurance.
JT
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Helenjw
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posted on December 26, 2007 07:21:59 AM
Taking a tough stance is one option and if you choose to do that, you would have good cause since the item was well packaged and uninsured.
But you might also consider the possibility that this customer may be a repeat customer and in that case refunding the money may be in your best interest. Of course, you will have to consider the amount of your investment.
Another question... Is it worth risking a negative feedback from an unhappy customer?
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CBlev65252
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posted on December 26, 2007 07:54:03 AM
If your customer paid by PayPal or her credit card, you may end up refunding her anyway. I hate when this happens, but I refund. If the customer doesn't want to purchase insurance on breakable items, I purchase it. It protects you more than the buyer. You may want to make insurance mandatory on breakable items.
As Helen said, you may want to bite the bullet and refund. This buyer could turn into a repeat buyer or she can leave a negative that would hurt you in the future.
Cheryl
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Dec 26, 2007 07:54 AM ]
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ST0NEC0LD613
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posted on December 26, 2007 07:55:44 AM
How did they pay?
Technically you are responsible for the item to arrive to it's destination as described. If they paid with PayPal or a credit card, all they need to do is file a claim and they get their money back.
Remember, insurance covers your butt, not the buyers.
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annekila
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posted on December 26, 2007 07:57:58 AM
Well....if they file a SNAD, you will probably be stuck having to refund..but only after they send it back at their expense. Having such a disclaimer..(I am not responsible if not insured)..in your terms doesn't mean anything. YOU are responsible to get the item to the buyer..and to get it there unbroken. The buyer may be pulling a fast one on you, but you have no way of knowing for sure. I require insurance on everything. It's to protect the seller..not the buyer.
There is also a good chance that you will receive a negative feedback. I don't think it's worth it for an inexpensive item.
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niel35
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posted on December 26, 2007 07:59:29 AM
Did she ask for a refund? Maybe she is just letting you know how it arrived. She knows it was not insured but was well packed and that the P.O. mishandled it. How was it paid for.? If she paid by PayPal, she may not even know about chargebacks.
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merrie
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posted on December 26, 2007 08:25:19 AM
Why should the customer be unhappy with the seller. I have never had a buyer leave me a neg for items broken in the mail, insured or not. They realize it is not my fault and they took the risk to save a few dollars.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 26, 2007 09:14:15 AM
"Why should the customer be unhappy with the seller. I have never had a buyer leave me a neg for items broken in the mail, insured or not. They realize it is not my fault and they took the risk to save a few dollars."
The Ebay customer is unhappy for the same reason that you would be unhappy with Amazon if your purchase arrived broken. Keep in mind that some purchases from Ebay are not such a bargain that breakage can be ignored.
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merrie
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posted on December 26, 2007 09:23:21 AM
"The Ebay customer is unhappy for the same reason that you would be unhappy with Amazon if your purchase arrived broken. Keep in mind that some purchases from Ebay are not such a bargain that breakage can be ignored."
Then they they should have purchased insurance!! Amazon has their own coverage and can absorb loses alot easier than most Ebay sellers.I pay for insurance myself many times when a buyer does not, but it gets to be a game with some buyers. They assume that a seller will kick in the extra few dollars for piece of mind. The buyer should have that same reasoning. I have never had a buyer question me on a broken item that they did not insure, no chargebacks, nothing. I have not had many items broken in transit (knock on wood), but the few that were, there were no complaints and no problems.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 26, 2007 10:06:05 AM
Stonecold said, "Technically you are responsible for the item to arrive to it's destination as described. If they paid with PayPal or a credit card, all they need to do is file a claim and they get their money back."
"Remember, insurance covers your butt, not the buyers."
That's absolutely correct!
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sue2012
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posted on December 26, 2007 10:20:58 AM
Why would a buyer NOT want insurance, especially on an expensive item. What would be some of the reasons that one would opt out of insurance as a buyer?
Because its the SELLER's responsibility to get the item to the buyer, unbroken, undamaged -- in the same condition it was in when the buyer bought it.
The risk of loss is on the SELLER. The goods don't become the buyer's property until they are delivered to the buyer's hands. If something goes wrong before then, it's the SELLER that has sto patch things up.
This is the law. And the policies of eBay and PayPal.
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zippy2dah
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posted on December 26, 2007 10:30:52 AM
Unless you know for a fact that he is lying you have to proceed as though he isn't. What you volunteered to pay for upgraded shipping has no relevance. He still received a broken item. That every other package arrived without damage is also of no import here. This package didn't.
I would refund before he could hit me with a PP SNAD claim and take an extra ten bucks from my account.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on December 26, 2007 10:46:07 AM
fLuFf's Guide to eBay Customer Service
Q: I got the wrong item.
A: Send it back.
Q: It arrived all bunged-up.
A: Send it back.
Q: Part of it is not what I want.
A: Send it ( all ) back.
Q: I was overcharged on postage.
A: Send it back.
Soon to be set to music, if I can find a catchy tune...any suggestions?
fLufF
--
What the heck is this? Find out at ClearanceClarence.com Forums.
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deur1
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posted on December 26, 2007 11:59:04 AM
Fluffy is 100% correct, email them and say
Send it back
At least they will not have the intact item and your money. They might break and send it back , but at least they will not have it.
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roadsmith
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posted on December 26, 2007 01:03:32 PM
I've had a claim filed through PayPal for a breakable item I sent to a buyer in November. I'd disclosed carefully that there were two chips. PayPal is taking a long time to resolve this, but they've told the buyer he has until 12/29 to send it back to me at his expense. My hunch? He won't do it. (I'd even offered to refund his shipping costs if he wanted to keep the item as a display item.) This guy has given three negs in the past couple of months for similar purchases, and I smell a scam. I always pack more carefully than necessary. He also declined insurance; this made no difference to PayPal.
ALWAYS, when I'm shipping a breakable, I send an e-mail message telling the buyer to take photos if there's any HINT of damage to the exterior or sounds of broken items in the box, then take photos as he's opening the box to show damage. This guy didn't do this, just filed a neg and a claim in PayPal, which I've now disputed.
_____________________
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hwahwa
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posted on December 26, 2007 03:34:33 PM
What we should do is to include insurance in shipping and handling.dont bother to ask the bidder if he wants insurance,it is not optional.
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on December 26, 2007 04:24:03 PM
I went the other route. I don't offer insurance at all.
You would be amazed at how little this matters to bidders.
fLufF
--
What the heck is this? Find out at ClearanceClarence.com Forums.
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on December 26, 2007 04:53:27 PM
We offer it and insure those items we don't want to pay to replace. Those who pay for it, we guarantee to replace or refund.
We also have a policy that's the same as Fluffy's - I think we actually took her advice a long time ago and it's served us well. You want a refund, return the item. If you say it's not functioning or broken - send us a pic so that we can get compensation from the manufactuerer.
Seems to work just fine.
Also, we believe it's up to us to get the items to their buyer in good condition. If it doesn't get there that way, it's our cost to replace or refund their entire purchase price and the shipping costs involved. We buy insurance to cover ourselves if our customers don't do it.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
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sthoemke
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posted on December 26, 2007 06:53:53 PM
Can some Superglue fix the item???
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kozersky
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posted on December 26, 2007 08:12:11 PM
I agree that you should ask that the item be returned before refunding for the item.
Get yourself some insurance from U-Pic. I insure every package which leaves my hands. I no longer consider the cost of insurance per item. Insurance is just an additional cost of doing business.
Items under $50 cost me 0.40 cents each to insure, over $50 with DC is 60 cents. International is $1.20/hundred.
When I send email to the buyer that their item has been shipped, I include the following - "insured for loss or damage."
I consider prepaid insurance as a business plus which further gives the buyer 'peace of mind' regarding the transaction.
Bill K-
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on December 26, 2007 08:31:54 PM
Bill - I pay 45-cents per $100 domestic and 90-cents per $100 international through DSI - and I file my shipping log once a month with them.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
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kozersky
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posted on December 26, 2007 08:48:44 PM
Wayne - all the more reason that there should be no excuse regarding sellers insuring items sent to buyers. Insurance is low cost and can easily be added to cost of delivery by the seller.
Bill K-
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on December 27, 2007 05:14:05 AM
Hey, guys, knock yourselves out buying insurance and keeping track of it. I did that for 3 months once, then asked myself what in blue blazes I was paying U-Pic all that money for.
It's a simple cost/benefits analysis. I ship on average 20 packages a month valued at more than $100. I've been doing this for seven years. Not a single one has ever been lost, but if one is, I'll pay to replace it with a smile on my face.
Why?
Look at the numbers: 20 times 12 times 7, that's 1680 packages. Current USPS insurance is $2.45 each. That's $4,116 I've saved over seven years by not buying USPS insurance, or $1,008 I've deprived those hard-working folks at U-Pic of. It's not quite enough to pay for my next cruise, but I'd pick it up if I found it on the street.
As far as professionalism goes, can't think of a single e-tailer that buys insurance. Amazon is a huge USPS shipper.
Insurance is a bet. That's all it is. You've got to know the odds.
fLufF
--
New! Heartwarming true stories about cats at MyChildEatsBugs.com.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 27, 2007 06:22:45 AM
Whenever possible, to hell with insurance.
And I agree about requiring the return of destroyed articles. Once when I received a complaint about a First Edition of the Annotated Alice in Wonderland I offered to refund immediately on receipt of the book. The woman said, "but my husband loves the book and just can't let it go!"....So, they kept the book and I kept the money along with a positive feedback.
Dealing with people can sometimes be so interesting.
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roadsmith
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posted on December 27, 2007 09:28:24 AM
I'm with fluffy on this. I keep remembering that our new credit cards are sent via 1st-class mail with no extras like insurance or DC. And not one has ever been lost or stolen.
The buyer I mentioned earlier, who, I think, pulls scams on sellers, has two more days to get the "broken" item to me before PayPal denies his claim. I'm hoping . . . . I've heard nothing from him in 3 weeks or so since he wrote to say it arrived broken and he'd already left a neg.
_____________________
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merrie
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posted on December 28, 2007 10:46:52 AM
I am curious about the insurance questions raised here. I am not concerned about lost packages. That has rarely happened to me, but about damage to breakable, fragile items. Do you really dare to send them uninsured?? I have had several items broken and the PO has paid for the items in question. Is it still worth the bet to not insure breakables? Do you think items with insurance get better treatment?  Just asking, really don't know the answers.
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parkman
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posted on December 28, 2007 11:16:41 AM
This time...I am going to refund the cost as it wasn't very much. However, after this I will (on breakable items) make insurance mandatory or charge enough shipping to cover the insurance and pay it myself.
I emailed her first (before I decided to refund) and asked what she would like me to do and about 12 hrs later emailed to tell her I would refund but thus far she has not responded to either email. I decided the amount was not worth a negative or having her do a chargeback.
I do appreciate all the input and the ideas I got from all of you. Hope everyone makes great money on their 10 cent listings. I did 159 things (got too tired to make it 160).
Thanks and Hope everyone has a wonderful New Year!!
Joyce
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