posted on January 4, 2008 09:16:58 AM
This is just a reminder to be very diligent in watching your bank accounts. You probably should never use a debit card to purchase things online. Ken, my live-in boyfriend, uses his debit card all the time to purchase things online. Well, today he learned the hard way that it's not advisable. His account was hit for over $1,000! They took it all. Lands End, among other online stores, showed up when he looked at his account online. Turns out that some people in Africa got a hold of his debit account number. They charged all kinds of things, had them sent to an address in the US (middlemen, IMO) and those people in turn were supposed to send the things off to Africa. The "middlemen" were actually caught up in the scam as well. They unwittingly became a part of the whole thing. It's probable that they received an email and responded to it agreeing, for money, to help these people out in Africa.
It just amazes me that people still fall for this carp. People should be made to take an Internet course through their providers before they can have an Internet account. These scams are broadcast on TV, written about in newspapers and warned against over the radio. Geesh, how much more can be said about these scams? Do people honestly ignore the reports? This time an entirely innocent third party was affected. Ken had nothing to do with any of this. Although we will eventually get the money back, this affects our house payment and our car payment.
In talking with the folks at Lands End, they advised never to use a debit card to purchase anything online. You are better protected with a credit card. While your credit card and still be hit, it's less traumatic. Cleaning out your bank account really wrecks havoc on your everyday life.
True, by FEDERAL LAW, debit cards ARE treated differently than CREDIT CARDS, and you have far FEWER comsumer protections enforced by law...
HOWEVER:
There are some points to remember:
1) MANY BANKS offer the SAME COMSUMER PROTECTION with yer DEBIT CHECK CARD as they offer with a CREDIT CARD...
2) As long as you QUICKLY REPORT to the bank the FRAUD, you are liable for first $50 (i think if reported withing first 48 hrs?) but it goes up to $500 if reported in 30 days (?) and yer SCREWED if after 30 days...
So...
ONLINE SHOPPING with a bank's DEBIT CHECK CARD is fairly safe...
OTOH: always purchase AIRLINE TICKETS with a CREDIT CARD
posted on January 4, 2008 09:59:45 AM
Tom - The bank said it will take at least 10 days to get even some of the money back. In the meantime, there's not a dime anywhere for anything. We're hardworking, honest people. It's a shame that people like those in Africa even exist. I guess they exist as a test of our faith. And, boy, is my faith being tested!
Had our account still been at First Merit, we would have been notified about this long before it got this far. They watch your account. I've had them call me when online purchases were showing up more than normal. Unfortunately, we closed that account and switched to Charter One.
posted on January 4, 2008 10:07:47 AM
Tell you bank to follow thw LAW -- specifically the ELECTRONICS FUNDS TRANSFER SOMETHING-OR-ANOTHER LAW that REQUIRES them to ONLY hold you responsible for FIRST $50 if you nofify them within (i think) 48 hrs...
You BANK sound like JERKS!
MOST banks here in FL advertise that they treat their DEBIT CHECK CARDS (the VISA or MC branded ones) the SAME with the SAME PROTECTIONS as CC's
posted on January 4, 2008 10:13:55 AMConsumer Reports:
"Under federal law, your liability for fraudulent charges on a debit card can be greater than it is for a credit card. With a credit card, you're only responsible for up to $50 in unauthorized purchases. But with a debit card, you can lose up to $500 if you don't report the theft or loss of your card or PIN within two business days of discovering the problem. And if you fail to report the unauthorized charges within 60 days of the date of the statement that lists them, you could be held liable for any unauthorized withdrawals after that date. Those include the full value of credit lines and funds in savings linked to your checking account for overdraft protection.
In practice, Visa and MasterCard both have "zero liability" policies that go beyond the federal law by exempting debit cardholders from liability in most cases when a bank investigation confirms a transaction is fraudulent. But there are loopholes in those policies.
Even if consumers were granted liability protection that is identical to that for credit cards, the headaches of setting the record straight are much greater with fraud on a debit card, says Ed Mierzwinski, consumer program director at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. "Unlike a credit card, payment for a fraudulent transaction has already come out of your bank account, so you're fighting over your money, not theirs, and you could be bouncing other checks while you're waiting for it to be resolved," he says."
IOW: there are "NICE" banks out there, and, there are "CRAPPY" banks out there -- CHARTER seems to be ala TOILET variety...
posted on January 4, 2008 10:15:18 AM
Tom - I once had someone use my UPS account to charge shipments. My UPS account is tied to my PayPal debit card. I got my money back within days from PayPal and a new card was in my hands within 5. Charter One needs to take a lesson from that. I got my money back from First Merit within 2 days when it happened there. Someone charged $350 worth of handbags to my account and I got the money back very quickly.
I have three accounts with Charter One: one personal, two business. I'm thinking about taking my accounts elsewhere.
posted on January 4, 2008 11:20:34 AM
is it possible you have a trojan or keylogger on your computer? this sounds an awful lot like that with all the problems. or even a wireless non secure internet connection that can be hacked into by a drive by?
posted on January 4, 2008 11:32:06 AM
glassgrl - It could also have come from a company having their servers hacked. We may never know. I would really love to wrap my hands around the neck of those responsible.
posted on January 4, 2008 11:34:12 AM
I've never understood debit cards. My bank keeps trying to give me one in place of an old-fashioned ATM card, and I always have to give it back.
Other than for people who can't resist the temptation of a credit card, I can't think of a single reason to have a debit card. Every place that will take a debit card will take a credit card.
On top of everything else, you lose the 30 day float with a debit card.
"Other than for people who can't resist the temptation of a credit card, I can't think of a single reason to have a debit card. Every place that will take a debit card will take a credit card."
Some of us have had our credit ruined in the past -- in my case, Ralphie got on the Playpup Channel and used my CC to run up thousands of "heavy breathing" calls to unsavory female doggies!
THUS, we cannot get a CC, and the BANK'S debit CHECK CARD is a GOD SEND, especially for folks with little "impulse" buying control...
One cannot get into trouble, because there ain't NO credit involved!
The bad thing is that SOME NASTY DIRTY SNEAKY BANKS allow yer purchase to go OVER the amount in yer c-account, and then sock it to ya with a $35 fee! YIKES!
OTOH: some BANKS (COMPASS) are "nice" and will work with ya!
posted on January 4, 2008 12:33:29 PM
Tom - You are always good for a chuckle when it's needed most.
In Ken's case, he had an ex-wife that ran up the credit cards without him even knowing it before they divorced. He just wanted to be rid of her so he didn't demand that she pay them off. They are now paid off and he's turned off by them. I have CC's, though. So, if he feels the need to buy online, I'll let him use one of mine from now on.
posted on January 4, 2008 12:58:51 PM
A friend of mine,when her husband was alive would go to a certain store to buy tools ,she paid for the charges but she never seen any tools around the house.It turns out that he will return the items and ask the store to credit a different card,thus he built up a credit balance with a card his wife does not know he had.
Another friend of mine (male),his wife would run up 70k worth of charges and filed for divorce ,under Tex law,it is split 50/50.
But she is a retail store manager and she could always return the items for cash or credited another credit card.
This is how she got an extra 35k from her hubby in divorce settlement!
*
Lets all stop whining !
Most stores (around 20 years ago) instituted policies that REFUNDS match payment method...IOW: if ya pay with yer FIRST BANK OF PONZI ND credit card, the REFUND must be made to that EXACT SAME CC, in order to deter FRAUD...
posted on January 4, 2008 02:26:02 PM
Actually neither Ralphie or the banks. I meant the people whose one thought before getting a divorce seems to be how to get extra money out of their soon-to-be-ex, the people whose spouses can't trust them even though they're not getting a divorce, the people using a fake UPS account, etc.
posted on January 4, 2008 02:50:00 PM
Most stores do have this policy,issue credit against the card used for purchase,but a few do not,or the clerk is not following store policy .
If you are the store manager ,you can break the rule!
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Lets all stop whining !
posted on January 4, 2008 02:53:01 PM
come to think of it,if you would rather use a debit card,why not use the Paypal debit card as a credit card ,you get 1 1/2 % rebate.
If it were stolen,the most they can charge is what you have in your paypal account,if it exceeds that,you will be asked to transfer fund from your bank account.
By then you would discover some one is using your card and notify Paypal.
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Lets all stop whining !
posted on January 4, 2008 03:01:01 PM
I DO use the PP DEBIT CARD & I love THAT rebate of 1.5% -- but new members get ONLY 1% rebate for about 18 months now...
For my DROP-SHIP sales: they pay me with PP, and I use the DEBIT CARD to pay me VENDOR for the item -- it really REDUCES the PP FEE delightfully...
posted on January 4, 2008 04:00:38 PM
I use the PP debit card, too. Ken does not have one. He doesn't sell online and only occasionally bought online, so he really has no need for a PayPal account. I have actually banned him from buying on eBay. He fell for a scam seller once and almost lost close to $500. I can't remember all the details, but in reviewing the email he received about payment red flags were everywhere. I think, Tom, I may have discussed this with you a couple years ago. It was only a fluke that Ken even had me look at the payment request. The seller wanted to make the deal outside of eBay and to send the money through Western Union. Nothing matched with the eBay ad. So, you can see why I don't let him on eBay.
posted on January 4, 2008 04:23:15 PM
Tom,
are you back selling on Ebay now??
I also use my Paypal debit card to pay Ebay fee,choose the option -use another payment or credit card and just enter the Paypal card number as if it were any credit card.And you get your 1 1/2 % rebate.
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Lets all stop whining !
AhHa! The plot thickens! The dog-bone crumbles! The frost is on me pumpkin (OUCH)!
Pull up a toadstool & I'll tell a tale of WOE with a HAPPY ending:
Once when I was YOUNG; svelte; & HIRSUITE, I used to FLY the friendly skies of...EASTERN AIRLINES -- remember them?
So, I bought a plane ticket for my annual pilgrimage to GILROY CA to take in the odious sights at the world-renown GARLIC FESTIVAL -- BUT, fate interceded that year, any my happy vacation amongst the smelly tubers was NOT to be...
Why, asketh yon Ralphie? Because, dear boy, EASTERN decided that very week to go: "belly-up"..."down-the-crapper"...IOW: BANKRUPT!
And I learned a VERY IMPORTANT MORAL upon speaking with my CC issuing bank rep: since I purchased my ticket with a CC, I could do a CHARGEBACK and the BANK would immediately return da moola to my card...
If I had purchased with: CASH or CHECK or MO, I would have been "up-sheets-creek-without-a-paddle" because with those methods, I would have been declared an "unsecured creditor" and would have seen my moola again about the same time DUMBO would have grown a BRAIN...
So, let this be a lesson to us all, boys and girls...
posted on January 4, 2008 06:00:29 PM
what if I use my Paypal debit card as a credit card to buy an airline ticket and you know these days they issue electronic tickets?
Can I still do a chargeback if they go under?
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Lets all stop whining !
posted on January 6, 2008 02:10:20 PM
Just an update. We filed a police report last night. Since the "middleman" is in another state, they will have to get the FBI involved. Hopefully we can just get our money back and then allow the bank and FBI to handle the rest. It's becoming clearer that someone somewhere had a database hacked. These crooks also have our home address, another thing I hate.
Thanks for the info on airline tickets, Tom! I never knew that one.
"childrens do learn"
