posted on February 10, 2008 10:31:26 AM new
Auction was pulled b/c VeRO member claimed trademark violation... this was posted previously in another thread and the issue isn't so much the trademark, but rather regarding ebay...
I want to relist the item now that I have removed any and all possible trademark issues. I contacted ebay and they told me to contact the VeRO member. I already did that and got a vague response.
The issue I have is that ebay continues to say I "could" be suspended if I relist the item if it continues to infringe on the VeRO members trademark. The problem isn't proof of trademark infringement, but rather claim to trademark infringement by abuse of the VeRO system.
The VeRO member has given me no indication as to what the actual trademark violation truly was and it is obvious they have no intentions in doing so as they simply view my auction as a competitor that they have control over. Why would they tell me how I can meet their requirements to sell an item that would compete against their own, right?
My concern is that this company will continue to claim trademark violation, even when it is not... just as a matter of intimidation and monopolizing their market.
I've spoken with my attorney regarding this matter, and they believe that the original complaint was valid, but my relist would not be a trademark violation and that I shouldn't have a problem unless the company falsely claims otherwise just to remove a competitor off the market simply based on the company's "interpretation" of the law, not the actual law.
Anyone else have experience with relisting an auction that was removed by a VeRO member?
posted on February 10, 2008 10:40:26 AM new
yes-don't bother relisting for awhile. Once ebay gets you for trademark violaqtion they will watch your auctions to see if the so called offending auction is put up again. Trust me they will suspend you if you put it back up and the original complainant cries wolf again. Regardless if there is a trademark violation or not ebay will suspend you. I had it happen to me a few years ago. I removed all mention of the trademark and relisted the item and it was pulled again and I was suspended for 6 weeks. Not a fun thing to have happen.
Wait a few months before listing the item again. That would be my advice.
posted on February 10, 2008 10:54:36 AM new
Ok... here is a good question to ask. The items I am selling are miniature "doll house" style chairs. They are similar to those by famous designers from the 1920's to 1970's. All of the Patents have expired on the original designs and is why the company who makes the toys have legal ground to do so.
The company who is actually giving me grief is only one design firm (Eames Office).
I have sets of these (over 40 different chairs in all), most of which were not influenced by Charles and Ray Eames designs.
So, what if I listed only those that were not Eames, and left the auctions as generics... just a photo of the actual product and a description that is completely void of trademarks, copyrights, patents, etc.
Obviously, Eames Office couldn't legally claim a trademark violation on any of these items since they have never been associated with their company in any way whatsoever.
Do you think Eames Office could still file a VeRO complaint simply based on the previously listings? I know Eames Office knows who the toy company is.
posted on February 10, 2008 11:03:48 AM new
As Jimmy Carter said: "Life is unfair..."
WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT RELIST THOSE ITEMS UNLESS YOU DESIRE A MINIMUM 30 DAY VACATION!
What we all forget is that it's feebay's sandbox, and they can be as arbitary & unfair and plain downright stooopid as they like...
They are under NO obligation to explain or justify anything to anybody, except their SHAREHOLDERS...
MOVE ON & FORGET THIS!
YOU WILL LOSE THE BATTLE & THE WAR, because feeBay can do any damn thing they like & then turn around & tell you to JUMP IN THE LAKE iffen ya don't like it...
MOVE ON!
Ralphie has some SURPLUS Herbal Viagra or Aluminum siding if ya need sumptin to sell?
posted on February 10, 2008 11:34:03 AM new
Rather than ask here, why don't you ask the expert in VeRO - tabberone?
The team there has successfully defended against large companies and they have a wealth of knowledge as it pertains to filing an appropriate objection to the VeRO which puts eBay on notice that you are serious about your rights to sell - as much as the company claiming violation.
You might also get your attorney to draft a simple letter to the Eames Office that confirms your intent and puts them on notice that their continued interference will not be taken lightly and what you intend to do if they continue, etc.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
posted on February 10, 2008 12:04:02 PM new
"Rather than ask here, why don't you ask the expert in VeRO - tabberone?"
That's a VeRO good question... How do I find this tabberone you speak of? I am not familiar with all that is VeRO as I have had very little problems with ebay in the pass.
posted on February 10, 2008 12:39:54 PM new
Simply entering "Tabberone" in a search engine will get you this link:
[link]www.tabberone.com[/link]
If anyone is looking for an amusing way to kill some time this afternoon, check out the "Hall of Shame". Oy.
[ edited by KarenMx on Feb 10, 2008 01:03 PM ]
posted on February 10, 2008 12:42:39 PM new
I wouldn't list them for quite a while, and then only with leaving out Eames. If you've sold some before, you could notify the buyers when you do relist.
_____________________
posted on February 10, 2008 01:04:22 PM new
Shag, have you read this article?
It refers to the full size Eames lounge chairs but it may be applicable in your case too. I know it would be near impossible to confuse a full size piece with a dollhouse size piece but you never know, it may apply.
"The price for the chair and ottoman was also a radical departure for the designers and marked their first foray into the luxury furniture market. The set originally sold for $578, a lot of money then. The current list price is $3,900 to $4,900, depending on the finishes selected, but many retailers periodically offer discounts. If you're persistent, you can also find a secondhand set, as I did.
As with other popular but expensive luxury items, knockoffs began to appear soon after the ensemble debuted.
Unlike most companies that face this problem, however, Herman Miller went to court and won. In 2003, a landmark decision granted Herman Miller "trade dress" protection.
This rarely used legal instrument allows a business to prevent competitors from manufacturing look-alike products that might confuse consumers. Unlike patents and copyrights, which protect manufacturers and authors for a specified period, trade-dress protection does not expire as long as the company continues to manufacture the product."
edited to add url
[ edited by zippy2dah on Feb 10, 2008 01:04 PM ]
posted on February 10, 2008 01:15:56 PM new
i've listed 3 sets of 3... repeatedly for a few months. all of which Eames would say is based on their designs from over 50 years ago.
I have removed all text containing their name or any reference to their product names which all have the Eames name... simply referring to the chairs with generic terms like Green Arm Chair, or Blue Chair, etc. I have kept the company name who manufactures the toys, as well as their product line name, which I am legally entitled to use since I am selling their product...
The same toy company makes other chairs that are in no way influenced by or associated with anything Eames has ever made or designed... The other chairs are from the same product line, and would be recognized simply as something another designer did... again over 50 years ago. I would continue the "generic" terminology and make sure that I am not infringing on any patents, trademarks, or copyrights.
I have never listed these on ebay, but am considering this in order to keep selling my product... and possibly get bidders to buy more from our website where I have also removed any reference to the Eames and any other designers name for these products.
Do you think I would be susceptible to Eames trying to pick these off simply by the association factor of my previous auctions made by the same company? They obviously wouldn't have any legal recourse in doing so, but is that still opening a can of worms???
posted on February 10, 2008 01:39:17 PM new
I had even asked Eames Office if there was any legal decisions made and they in effect said no... geez, you'd think they would know what laws truly affect their own business... and the irony here is that someone said they saw these miniatures being sold at the Museum of Modern Art's gift shop.
posted on February 10, 2008 02:11:15 PM new
I believe dejapooh, in the previous thread, has provided the answer to your problem. If you really want to continue to list the items in question, and resolve the Vero conflict, follow his suggestion -
dejapooh
posted on February 6, 2008 08:48:10 AM
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I believe there is a way that you can contest the trademark Violation. You can ask that the person protesting your use of a term prove that they indeed hold the trademark on that term.
#
Filing a Copyright Counter Notice. For listings that have been removed at the request of the rights owner for copyright infringement, you may have the option of filing a Counter Notice with eBay if you feel that your listings were removed in error and you have not been able to come to an agreement with the rights owner.
A Counter Notice is a form provided by eBay in compliance with the requirements of the federal Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The form is a legal document that requires you to, among other things, certify under sworn penalty of perjury that your listings were not infringing and were removed by mistake or misidentification. When you sign a Counter Notice, you will also have to consent to federal jurisdiction and service of process. Please read this form carefully, so you fully understand what you agree to if you choose to submit it to eBay.
Once a valid Counter Notice is submitted, eBay will provide a copy of the notice to the reporting party and will advise them that the listings will be reinstated after 10 business days if we do not hear from the reporting party that they have filed an action seeking a court order to restrain you from re-listing the items.
If you are interested in filing a counter notification, please click on the “email us” link below and provide us with additional information regarding your appeal.
_____________
posted on February 10, 2008 02:35:11 PM new
I think zippy may have answered the question... but there are a few questions left unanswered b/c this is a toy in the shape of a chair and is obviously not what it was originally made as...
I think the best thing at this time is to simply jump off a cliff... lol. Actually, I think I am going to avoid the headache altogether.
When I purchased this product I received documentation about patents from Reac. I totally understand the claim to "trade dress" that zippy brought and immediately thought of the Coca Cola bottle. If you think of it like this... Coca Cola has obvious trademarks like the script design of Coca Cola, or the Diet Coke logo... but the shape of their bottle is an identity that would be considered a "trade dress". If you saw another soda pop in a bottle shaped like Coca Cola's, you would obviously wonder if it was produced by Coca Cola... and if not, it was obviously confusing... whether intended or not. The point is that that shape or design has become an identity known to that company exclusively.
I think part of me just wanted to finish off selling these, but I think I am going to return them and look for licensed product from now on. I already have some in mind. Less headaches and I don't feel like I am looking for a loophole around some legal issue. My intentions were never to sell something is counterfeit, but there are obviously legal issues between Eames Office and the manufacturer of these that I don't want to get in the middle of.
posted on February 10, 2008 03:33:57 PM new
"I think part of me just wanted to finish off selling these, but I think I am going to return them and look for licensed product from now on. I already have some in mind. Less headaches and I don't feel like I am looking for a loophole around some legal issue. My intentions were never to sell something is counterfeit, but there are obviously legal issues between Eames Office and the manufacturer of these that I don't want to get in the middle of."
