posted on February 17, 2008 11:17:09 AM
As I read it, one of the reasons eBay initiated the new feedback rules (sellers can't give buyers feedback) is that there were a disproportionate number of sellers giving negative feedback. Perhaps the reason for that is that there are many more deadbeat bidders than unscrupulous sellers out there in eBay land. Wonder if the eBay policy makers gave that any thought?
[ edited by blueyes29 on Feb 17, 2008 04:17 PM ]
posted on February 17, 2008 02:46:25 PM
I have never left neg FB for a buyer except when it was left for me first. As for deadbeats I would just file fof FVF. I could not see how negs would hurt a buyer, I mean after all how many sellers check their buyers FB, not very many.
What does bother me is that the option I hardly ever used was taken away.
I was always amused when I would get a frantic email from a buyer to not forget to leave them FB.....I had to resist the urge to tell them it didn't really matter, no one looks at it but you.
blueyes, what eBay had in mind with this new rule, who knows. I can't imagine what good it will do.
posted on February 17, 2008 02:59:58 PM
The only time I have ever looked at a buyers feedback, is if they haven't paid me in a timely fashion and I check them out. If they have several negs, then I start the process on them.
I have left lots of negs (well deserved) for people not paying me. I think ebay is making a HUGE MISTAKE. I am not afraid of them giving me a neg (if they do, so be it). I have only received 2 negs and they were both from non-paying bidders, so I didn't let it get to me too much because they got theirs first!
posted on February 17, 2008 03:05:14 PM
Frankly, as a seller, I've been lucky and have had few deadbeats lately so also haven't used the negative feedback option. Like you, though, it was an option and I do resent the fact that it's no longer available when I want to use it. I DO check buyer's feedback occasionally...mainly when I receive a check for payment and have to make a decision whether to wait for the check to clear before shipping or to ship immediately. eBay touts its feedback system as one of the positives of its system. Now, it appears that it loses whatever benefits it had and will be practically useless. When something is so one-sided, it basically presents a skewed view.
posted on February 18, 2008 07:32:14 AMI have never left neg FB for a buyer except when it was left for me first.
Which is exactly why the new feedback system had to be put in place. This type of feedback is nothing but a retaliation feedback and not a truthful one. It was eBay's only way to curb feedback extorsion.
posted on February 18, 2008 08:07:10 AM
A retaliatory neg is not the same thing as feedback extortion.
Telling a buyer that you will neg them back if they neg you first is not feedback extortion. It may be petty and it may be silly but it is not extortion.
The definition of feedback extortion is: "Threatening to leave negative or neutral feedback for another member unless the other member provides goods or services not included in the original listing is not permitted."
Some examples:
"If you don’t include high performance tires and rims at no additional charge I will leave you negative feedback.”
"Pay me $100.00 or I will leave you negative feedback."
"Sell me all of the items in the multiple item auction or I will get all of my friends to buy them and leave negative feedback"
posted on February 18, 2008 03:29:53 PM
Speaking as a buyer who’s been on eBay since 1997, let me tell you about two recent eBay transactions (I can’t call them purchases).
The first was from a Canadian seller. Last month, after nearly 4 weeks of waiting (it was Canada after all), I emailed the seller asking when they shipped out the software. No response so I disputed it with PayPal, which I’ve learned ALWAYS gets their attention. They immediately refunded my money and insinuated that I stole from them. So once again I asked when they shipped it and again, no response. Today I still haven’t rec’d any software.
About 2½ weeks ago, I won a 1940’s casserole dish, where I was the sole bidder. No sniping involved, and my bid was a lot higher than what I ended up paying. Since I paid for insurance, I assumed it would be shipped priority and figured I should have received it last week. With the Canadian transaction still fresh on my mind, I emailed the seller asking when it was shipped. No response so once again, I disputed it with PayPal and once again, the seller came out of the woodwork. No, they hadn’t shipped it yet because they couldn’t find it & assumed it was lost "in the move"(i.e. it sold too low). He went on to say "since you have chosen to freeze my PayPal account, as I see by today's emails, effectively putting me out of business- I am unable to do that through the same method you used for payment." In other words, he wanted me to "undispute" my dispute so he could refund my money. I told him in not so fuzzy language to refund my money, which he promptly did.
Let me say that as a buyer, I always pay promptly and expect only two things; to receive the item in as-advertised condition and in a timely manner. That’s it. I don’t expect handholding, a dozen emails or even feedback. That said, I always do leave positive feedback with exception of a few transactions such as those noted above.
And BTW, I did neg the Canadian seller and on cue, he negged me back. I will eventually neg the casserole seller also; and I’m sure he’ll return the favor. Do I care? Not one whit as I have both a buyer’s ID and a seller’s ID.
It’s crap like this that makes buying on eBay not for the faint of heart. And it’s probably one reason why eBay is changing their feedback system.
posted on February 18, 2008 04:44:27 PM
I wondered when (not if) you were going to make your appearance after my post.
Do you think eBay is taking away feedback privileges from sellers because of all the GOOD buying experiences? I think not. I do have lots of good buying experiences, which should be the norm. But my good buying experiences are with the same sellers I buy from over and over again (this is inventory for my B & M business, which is why I deal with the same sellers.) It seems that when I veer outside my normal realm is when I experience problems.
Now if you want me to relate my good experiences, I will.
I won, I paid, I received.
I won, I paid, I received.
I won, I paid, I received.
etc etc etc
Are you happy now?
Edit - I wrote this in response to Fluffy's post above where she said all I do is complain about sellers. For whatever reason, she has since edited her post by removing what she said about me and then inserted a year-old thread I started about PayPal. And if you read that thread, I believe I said that I didn't have a complaint with the seller but with PayPal.
[ edited by dixielou on Feb 18, 2008 04:56 PM ]
'Course, my affection for it might have something to do with being in Aruba at the time. My absolute favorite island (and that includes Maui), hands down.
posted on February 18, 2008 07:26:00 PM
Fluffy reminds me of the hall monitors we used to have in elementary school. That job puffed them up and made them feel quite special.
I replied to this topic, first time in a long time I might add, relating two very recent buying experiences and their feedback aspect, and Fluffy, the hall monitor, takes it upon herself to reply with year-old threads that really don't add anything to this. And where does Aruba fit in?
Last time I checked, this was eBay Outlook. Does it preclude buyers from discussing their experiences and points of view? Or is this a sellers-only forum? I have to think it was created with both parties in mind.
However our hall monitor believes I've broken a rule because I had the nerve to post about a couple of recent bad buying experiences when I had already used my quota by making a similar post one a year ago. Shame on me.
Will it stop me from posting? Nope. Guess I'll just have to endure more of her "tickets". Which makes me feel special because not everyone garners Ms. Fluffy's attention like I have.
My apologies to the OP for getting off track with the subject.
posted on February 18, 2008 07:37:42 PM
dixielou, I couldn't agree more. There is another thread started by kraftdinner in which Fluff has to "mark" her territory (in her imagination)! I just sit back and laugh.
Yes, buyers and sellers can comment on this board and should feel free to do so, unless I missed a new rule. I have been here a long time.
posted on February 18, 2008 08:09:21 PM"Course, my affection for it might have something to do with being in Aruba at the time. My absolute favorite island (and that includes Maui), hands down."
Really? I wasn't very fond of Aruba. My favorite in the Caribbean is Curacao. My all time favorite is Fanning Island in Kiribati (part of NCL Hawaiian cruise).
-------------------------------------
posted on February 18, 2008 08:11:27 PM
In defense of Fluff, she never wagers personal attacks or childish name-calling. Her views may differ from yours or mine but I welcome views from a differing perspective presented rationally - I just may learn something, or not. Some of Fluff's comment are the most thoughtful on this board and I thank her for that.
posted on February 18, 2008 08:16:44 PM
Criticisms of postings are not the same as personally attacking the poster. Check out the RT for nasty personal attacks.
[ edited by pixiamom on Feb 18, 2008 08:18 PM ]
posted on February 18, 2008 08:25:04 PMA retaliatory neg is not the same thing as feedback extortion.
Sure it is. If you won't leave feedback unless they buyer does first, it most definetly is extortion.
If you don't give me a postive feedback (even if I deserve a negative) I won't give you one even though you bid and paid promptly.
This is extorsion with the threat of leaving a retalitory feedback.
I am not one to be on eBay's bandwagon, but this policy was long over due. And 99.9% of what I do on eBay is sell. So the new policy effects me too. But yet I am not going to worry about it as I have always left feedback at the proper time. When the payment was made.
I see no problem as a seller if I treat my customers right, don't use those automated end of auction notices and don't put them through any companies checkout system. My customers get e-mails directly from me with details on how to complete the transaction. I also address concerns personally and promptly.
Frankly the only ones I see complaining are the same that wouldn't leave feedback at the proper time and extorted it from their buyers.
posted on February 18, 2008 08:40:49 PM
Stone, I personally agree with you. The old argument that the transaction is not complete until the item is received and buyer has left positive feedback has always seemed bogus to me. The buyer fulfills their obligation once they have paid for the item. There should be a recourse, however, for identifying buyers with a high rate of claims and returned items for refund.
posted on February 19, 2008 04:14:00 AM
dixielou:
why is it that everytime you rant about sellers, you never really give all the info?
In BOTH links fluffy provided, you fail to give the actual item descriptions.
What about these recent transactions?
Who are you buying from?
What was the feedback of the seller like?
How long have they been on eBay?
eBaY has no guidelines or training for sellers ~ a fact of which you are well aware.
I am quite certain that the 'sellers' that you purchased from were the problem and a look into their past would have told you what to expect.
CURRENT feedback (retaliatory negs, flaws and all) is at least a window into a sellers past history.
posted on February 19, 2008 05:19:06 AM
Pixiamom, yes Fluff does wage personal attacks and quite often. Many may not be bothered by it but others are getting weary of it. I totally agree with your views on feedback and have always left + after I received the payment.
posted on February 19, 2008 05:41:28 AM
A service to eBay sellers BY eBay is reciprocal feedback. Why would eBay provide a service to sellers that leaves a buyer feedback after the buyer has given feedback, if it is so wrong?
Beth
posted on February 19, 2008 05:55:02 AM
Beth, not wrong, everyone does this differently. A neg for a neg IMO is wrong. This debate is almost like the political debates that people get into - no clear winners - both sides have opinions.
posted on February 19, 2008 06:24:40 AM
Why would eBay provide a service to sellers that leaves a buyer feedback after the buyer has given feedback, if it is so wrong?
This comment has struck me odd. Ebay institutes poor decisions on a regular basis. Fee increases, feedback decisions, search issues, etc....
posted on February 19, 2008 06:52:35 AM
deichen: LOL you're right!
I just try to automate as much as possible to save time. Reciprocal feedback is one of those mechanisms. I actually have customers who request NO feedback. One I think is hiding his soda pop ad obsession from his significant other.
Beth
posted on February 19, 2008 04:05:31 PM
Zoomin, here are your stats:
Canadian seller – registered 2004 239 total feedback 98.5% 3 negs, including mine.
Casserole seller – registered 1999 940 total feedback 99.3% 9 negs (I haven’t left one, yet)
None of the negs are recent other than the one I left.
And no, I’m not giving actual item descriptions, as I prefer to keep my eBay ID private.
IMO, not "problem" sellers. But so what. I paid and didn’t receive anything.
eBay knows the percentage of refunded sales and perhaps their offbeat fix is to take away sellers' feedback privileges so that sellers will have greater incentive to follow through or else face bad feedback and star dinging, which buyers will do when the fear of retaliation is removed. And as negs mount for certain sellers, eBay will be weeding them out.
Do I think this is fair for sellers in general? No. But speaking as a disgruntled buyer, that's just my guess.
