posted on November 9, 2009 03:19:25 PM new
Just doesn\'t seem to be my week on eBay. Now I have a bidder from Oct 14 who bought Peachtree Accounting software from me. Brand New/Sealed.
Last week he emailed me that he hadn\'t had a chance to use it, so he hadn\'t left feedback yet.
Today, he emails me the following:
"Thought I was getting Peachtree Complete Acct 2010 Sealed New for multiuser but called Peachtree and said was single user can i return for multi user or refund. do not want to send negative feedback."
My auction clearly states no refunds. Not only that, it appears this is feedback extortion b/c he expects more than what the listing stated it was when he asks for multi-user and states "do not want to send negative feedback."
What should I do?
[ edited by shagmidmod on Nov 9, 2009 03:27 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2009 03:54:41 PM new
Well, just called ebay... no extortion there. Apparently, he can throw around threats about leaving negs and wanting upgrades and somehow that isn't asking for more than what is listed in the auction.
There is absolutely no mention of multi-user other than it supports that feature when used in a mult-user system (example: company wants to add a computer to their system, and they have to buy a license - this software gives the license- to add it to a computer in their system).
I'm not even sure if I should ask them if it has been opened. Obviously boxes can be resealed and I won't even know if the box still has the correct software in it.
posted on November 9, 2009 04:23:08 PM new
What are you selling? Feedback, or Peachtree Accounting software?
You stated no refunds, and I bet there was full explanation of the item.
I know of no other business entity which accepts returns of software, or issues refunds. You have no way of knowing what has been returned, or if he has just copied the software.
Now, even though ebay claims to be only a venue, you have a partner in all of this. Perhaps ebay will refund his money to him. And, if he paid by credit card, you will be safe as the credit card companies usually adhere to the seller's stated policy. PayPal may be another story.
I suggest that you nicely remind him of your refund policy, and the item description. I would not give him a refund, nor any allowance of his cost.
For all you know, he may have tried to use the accounting program and could not understand how to use it. It has been almost a month since the deal was completed. Perhaps he has buyer's remorse.
Hold you ground. Legally, you can refuse to refund or accept the return of the software.
posted on November 9, 2009 05:23:37 PM new
Amazon.com Return Policy -
"Software titles purchased from Amazon.com are easily returned to Amazon.com within 30 days of receipt of shipment via our online Returns Center. These items must be unopened and still in their plastic wrap.
Amazon.com cannot accept returns of items purchased from Amazon Merchants. Items that are picked up at a store or shipped directly by the merchant must be returned to the merchant according to their return guidelines. ...
If you're returning an item purchased from Amazon Marketplace, please contact the seller directly. Software purchased from Amazon Marketplace sellers can only be returned if the item received is materially different than the item purchased or the item was sold as New and it has not been opened. Software sold in New condition which has been opened, and Software products which are sold as Used and are not materially different than the item purchased, cannot be returned. ..."
posted on November 9, 2009 05:47:58 PM new
To complicate things further... when he uses the term, "multi-user" am I to assume he means more than one computer? I went through Peachtree's website and find no mention of the term "multi-user" when referring to the number of computers it can be loaded on. Peachtree sells 1 user and 5 user.
My listing shows the photo of the single user box w/o the red label indicating 5 users.
I went through my listing and the only mention of "multi-user" was regarding the software including a multi-user option with screen level security. Basically, it allows multiple users to use it at a single station with different security levels. This is obviously not the same thing as 5 user software.
And finally the retail on the 5 user version is almost $600. The best price on ebay is over $400. He bought this for $135 for a $299 retail software. How can anyone reasonably believe they bought that???
posted on November 9, 2009 06:08:31 PM new
How about telling him: if your distributor will accept it back, you'll be happy to accept the return and will refund. If your distributor won't accept the return, you'll have to stand by your stated policies.
posted on November 9, 2009 06:33:05 PM new
I just do not believe that anything should be written which can be taken as an agreement to accept a return, and issue a refund.
At the present, you have a valid contract with this buyer based upon the item description, your return policy, his payment, and your shipment. If you modify this contract in any way, with promises, possible returns or any language which can be taken as your willingness to accept the software return, you weaken your position.
Just ask yourself - are you selling feedback, or merchandise?
Sit tight, make no contrary offers. If by chance, ebay or PayPal were to refund him with your money, you would win a Small Claims case against either one.
Nicely advise him of the item description, and your no refund policy on this item. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Bill K-
edited to correct spelling
[ edited by kozersky on Nov 9, 2009 09:00 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2009 07:02:40 PM new
Sounds like they downloaded it now want their money back. Send a note saying,
Our terms of sale clearly state we do not accept returns or issue refunds for software products.
posted on November 9, 2009 09:28:32 PM new
If they bought it from Best Buy, Office Max, Office Depot, etc., they would be given the chance to upgrade to the multiuser version. I would not mention the word multiuser in any listings in the future.
posted on November 10, 2009 07:40:43 AM new
Try this:
Dear valued Customer,
Soon after we began selling software products we learned the hard way that there are alot of dishonest people in the world.
Would you believe that some of our early customers bought software from us, downloaded it to their computer then sent it back for a refund? The nerve of some people!
They ruined it for everyone including honest hard working folks. We were not able to resell these returned items as new so we lost money when we resold them. You can't run a business like that can you!
So while it hurts us to do so, and as it is clearly stated in our Terms of Sale, all sales of software products are final and we no longer exchange or offer refunds on those products.
Oh by the way neither do Best Buy, Staples, or Walmart.
Have a great day,
posted on November 10, 2009 07:50:37 AM new
pixiamom - the term "multi-user" is a term used by Peachtree/Sage to refer to a specific option this software provides. It is on their site and is part of the description of the item. The software is indeed multi-user. However, there is a difference between 5 user (meaning it can be installed on 5 computers) and multi-user option which means multiple users can use it at one station. The software also mentions integration with MS Word and conversion with Quickbooks... does that mean it includes Word or Quickbooks??? Obviously no. Should I remove the words MS Word and Quickbooks so that it doesn't confuse bidders too?
This information came directly from peachtree and is used on every site that sells this software. In each of those instances, the listing also states there is additional information at Peachtree.com regarding those features.
Is it the sellers responsibility to make sure the bidder understands the definition of every single term the manufacturer uses? No. If a car maker uses the term "Electronic Stability Control" and the buyer thinks it is "Electronic Traction Control" is it the makers fault? There is an obvious difference and it should be up to the buyer to investigate if the item meets their needs.
i think it is a case of buyers remorse. i know i have bought software that i was not happy with... and wish i could return it.
peachtree is complicated software. it can seem daunting to use peachtree or quickbooks at the beginning. i wouldn't doubt this is the case here.
posted on November 10, 2009 08:01:57 AM new
and i should add... the auction listing clearly stated NO REFUNDS. if the bidder was concerned about returning it, he should have purchased it from a company that accepts returns on software (if it is unopened) and paid the retail price of $299.
posted on November 10, 2009 09:29:42 AM new
Has he opened the software? Industry standard is to accept returns on unopened items only. I would HOPE PayPal would stand behind you on that.
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posted on November 10, 2009 10:03:47 AM new
The buyer did not mention if it was opened or not. I know ebay/paypal have their own policies regarding returns, and if the buyer wants to pursue them he can. however, my policies state no returns and i plan to stick by it until i am forced to accept the return. if it is returned opened, then i will file a claim with ebay/paypal stating that the item was not returned as it was sold and that it is unsellable.
i believe sticking to my no return policy in this matter puts the ball in the buyers court. sure, he can get mad and leave negative feedback. he can leave poor dsrs, but i am tired of being an honest seller that has to cave every time someone has buyers remorse or doesn't take responsibility for their own purchases.
the fact also remains, paying $130 for a 5 user version that retails at $600 is too good to be true and he should have realized that from the beginning. no other seller on ebay sells the 5 user version for under $400. common sense should dictate here.
posted on November 10, 2009 04:19:22 PM new
Shag, the "multi-user option" for the software is the option to add users by either buying more single-user packages or by purchasing a multi-user license. There is no feature in that package that can be used by more than one user without buying additional licenses. Multi-user licenses are almost always based on the number of named users, not the number of computers the software is installed on. Typically, multi-user licenses have the program residing on only one computer, the servers, with other computers networked to it. Trust me, I've sold multi-user licenses since the early 80's. I can't imagine why Peachtree would include this in their template for a single user license, unless they use the same template for single user and multi-user packages.
Edited to add: I don't think you were an irresponsible seller, but I don't think the buyer is a jerk. He is looking for an upgrade option. I think Peachtree has produced an ambiguous template that requires going to their website for disclosure information. You might try contacting Peachtree to determine the cost of adding additional users and relaying the info to your customer, encouraging him to work with Peachtree directly to iron this out.
Most companies use the term "scalable" which implies that you can add additional users at an additional cost rather than "multi-user option", which implies you can add additional users with the current license.
[ edited by pixiamom on Nov 10, 2009 06:56 PM ]
posted on November 11, 2009 05:59:41 PM new
Latest update-Bidder Response:
"As I remember your description of the product did not say whether it was single or multiple user? I needed multiuser. i did not open the box but called Peachtree and they told me based on the number code it was a single user software. Why not be reasonable? I will send in a negative comment."
It seems as though this bidder just doesn't understand threatening sellers doesn't make things better for them, in fact, it makes me more defensive and not willing to work with him. However, for the sake of professionalism, I responded as follows:
"Hello. Our policy states no returns for this item. This item was listed correctly, as it is exactly done on Office Max, Office Depot, and Staples websites. Only the 5 user version makes specific reference to the amount of licenses it comes with. This item was sold to you for over $165 less than retail at at any of those stores. This is one reason why we listed this item as non-returnable. We clearly stated our terms in this listing, which bidders agree to when they place their bid. If we had misrepresented this item as the 5 user version and you received a single user version, I would be happy to provide an exchange at our cost, however this was not the situation. This item will work in multi-user mode when used with the standard or 5 user versions. Thank you,"
If he leaves negative feedback and low DSRs, then so be it. I can't live my life worried about correcting someone elses mistakes at my cost... Did I mention I sold this with FREE SHIPPING???? Do you think he would go for subtracting shipping costs? I seriously doubt it.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Nov 11, 2009 06:00 PM ]
posted on November 11, 2009 07:11:18 PM new
If the package is unopened, the best business decision is to file for mutual withdrawal, let him return it, refund his money. When relisting, I would specify this is a single user license to avoid have it happening again. I think the sale is salvageable, the cost of upgrading a 1 user license bought at an incredible bargain to a 5 user license with Peachtree is probably cheaper than purchasing a 5 user license at retail, but I understand if you don't want to play intermediary. The emotional response is to refuse to accept the return of a resalable item and taking the hits on your DSRs.
posted on November 12, 2009 07:28:49 AM new
I just sent the following message and offered to accept the return with a 25% restocking fee to cover all of my costs I have incurred including shipping, ebay and paypal fees. I believe I am meeting this person half way, and if they are not willing to accept it, then I will take the hit on the DSRs. Consider it a 25% stupidity fee if you want.
"After reviewing your message again regarding the package not being opened, I am willing to work with you on this. Though my policy states no returns on this item, I will accept a return with a 25% restocking fee. This fee would cover my costs to ship this item to you and the fees I have incurred to list this item, of which I cannot recoup from eBay. I believe I am meeting you half way in this matter as there is some buyer responsibility in this matter as well. It is up to the bidder to read the description properly,and ask any questions before buying if clarification is needed. As stated in my previous message, this particular item is not marketed with the inclusion of the phrase single user or any other indication regarding how many licenses comes with it. I have checked all major office supply store websites to verify this information. Only the 5 user version includes wording as such. Let me know if you agree to this and I will send further instructions to return the item."
posted on November 13, 2009 06:25:52 PM new
Very professional, Shag. BTW, there is an interesting auction Sunday in Canby. I was hoping for postcards, but no such luck. I don't see much mid-century, but maybe you can see something that tickles your fancy. Click on the the link to Estate of Amazement. http://www.montesinc.com/
