posted on February 23, 2010 08:11:23 AM new
I sold a designer purse a few weeks ago. It was new with tags, all documents, dust bag, etc. My daughter had gotten it as a gift from her boss and it was not her style. Sold it for a good price. Sent it off, got glowing feedback from the buyer which I reciprocated.
The next day the buyer says she changed her mind, wanted to return the purse. I told her this was a first for me, a buyer leaving feedback about how pleased she was with a purchase and then wanting to return it. I gave her instructions as to the return and told her I would refund only the purchase price, no shipping and the item must be in the same condition as when received. She agreed. She kept postponing the return (flu, etc).
Got the bag back yesterday, the tags were removed. I am going to assume she used the bag and then decided to return it (her feedback shows she has done this before).Now, what can the seller do??
No negative feedback could be left although that ship had sailed since I left + after she did. I now have a purse that is not NWT (I do have the tag, but not attached).
I am sure I can resell it and explain, etc.But, there is no recourse for a bad, dishonest buyer like this. No way to alert other sellers. This bag would not be accepted back to any brick and mortar store once she removed the tag.Yet we at Ebay are hostages to buyers like this.
posted on February 23, 2010 11:36:43 AM new
I would have NOT allowed return after feedback had been exchanged (no chance to get back FVF's, risk of condition, etc). If she decided she didn't want it, she should resell it herself.
[ edited by sthoemke on Feb 24, 2010 08:19 PM ]
posted on February 23, 2010 01:21:13 PM new
You could still file for your FVF once you return her money because then the item will show as not being paid for. You have every right to get your FVF since you got the bag back. I have done this before when I had a buyer like you have and I got my FVF back, after you file you wait till you can close the case.
I'm sorry to hear what your going through, but it seems there is never any choice for the seller, the buyers just do what they want and when they want to do it.
Receiving the bag back without the tags is very wrong on her part and if I was you I would take money back for this. Let her know you said you would except the bag if all the tags were still on it, and since they are not on it you are not returning the full price because of that.
Then once you return part of her money if she is not happy let her make a complaint with paypal if she wants. Let her also know you have to sell the bag for much less because of her taking off the tags because now it is not New with tags and it will not bring you the same money as if the tags were still on the bag.
If you don't feel good about doing that then just return her money but at least file for your FVF You are taking a loss on all ends here and it's not right.
posted on February 23, 2010 01:21:23 PM new
This is a shame. I think I would report her to ebay - for all the good it will do - but it may make you feel better.
posted on February 23, 2010 03:50:56 PM new
I did get my FVF back. I canceled the transaction. I would have liked to have her get a strike, but I told her I would not refund until she agreed to cancel the transaction so I could get the fees back.
I wrote and told her how disappointed I was in what she did, how it was dishonest, etc. Have not heard back, but have also not refunded her monies yet.
posted on February 23, 2010 05:09:57 PM new
You should still be able to leave feedback follow-up. Click the Feedback tab on My Ebay and click Feedback Forum.
I would leave a comment such as "Buyer removed tags before returning". That would at least alert other sellers of her dubious practices and might also let your future bidders know that you are not afraid to address problem customers.
As for refunds, the best place to stop the scams is by stating a clear return policy on the listing. The more professional your wording, the less likely the scammer will want to deal with you. Scammers prefer those soft hearted sellers who feel like they have to make a friend with every sale.
Always be specific about your refund policy and stand firm when the buyer wants you to make an exception. Allowing any concessions can lead to future regrets for you.
My refund policy states:
Returns accepted on sealed/unopened product. (modified as needed to suit item condition) Please contact us for return shipping instructions before returning your item. Shipping, packaging and insurance costs are non-refundable.
Also, create a standard reply for return requests. It saves you time in dealing with returns and serves as a reminder so you do not leave out any details when replying to emails. Save it in a .doc file or email draft. Cover the points the buyer needs to be aware of. It also helps you stick to your guns if the buyer tries to change the TOS. If you formulate your return policy correctly, it will need very little modification for any item.
My standard response is:
I am sorry to hear you cannot use your "yada-yada".
Returns are accepted if we receive the item within 7 business days of the delivery date shown for your package tracking id.
A refund of your purchase price, less shipping and packaging costs will be credited to your account once your item has been received and inspected. All returned items must be new and unused (as stated in the listing, in the same condition we shipped them, etc).
Please email us when you return the item so we will know when to expect it. We highly recommend the purchase of Delivery Confirmation and insurance for your package. We are not responsible for damage sustained during transit.
When we have received your item, we will send you an email notification of receipt. Once your item has been inspected, we will send a follow-up email about the status of your refund.
Since I started including the return policy in my listings, requests for returns have dropped. For the few requests that do come in, I rarely hear from the buyer again after they receive my email.
I have not noticed a drop sales but I have noticed a lot less frustration on my end!
posted on February 23, 2010 06:19:49 PM new
LtRay: your input is very good. I did tell her that the item must be the same, with tags attached, etc. She sent it back, anyway. I have not refunded her monies yet. I sent her an email telling her that she did not follow the instructions and that I was contacting Ebay about how to proceed. I have never had this happen to me before. I have had very, very few returns and have never had the product been altered before so I perhaps I do need to make my return policy sound more strict.This is not the type of merchandise I normally sell.
I think I was also so fearful of PayPal refunding monies without taking circumstances into consideration. There are so many horror stories about PayPal siding with the buyer and sellers losing both the money and the product.
Thanks for the tip on FB follow-up. I am going to add that right now.
posted on February 23, 2010 06:21:35 PM new
Since it is a designer purse, I imagine any Paypal dispute would automatically refund the total amount and tell the buyer to destroy the purse. All they have to do is question its authenticity and no amount of safe wording or back up paperwork will protect the seller. Paypal won't take the time to inspect it and Vero members don't want their products, legit or not, sold on eBay,period.
posted on February 23, 2010 06:26:35 PM new
pixiamom: That is exactly the results I was afraid of although I have all of her emails, her glowing feedback, all paperwork for the pocketbook, etc.None of which suggest the bag was not authentic. It is because of this type of fear that I was reluctant not to agree to the purse's return. Although I did specify that tags must be intact.
posted on February 23, 2010 06:29:29 PM new
I think you did well to get the purse back. I'd immediately relist it, as is, and refund the amount you get for it.
[ edited by pixiamom on Feb 23, 2010 07:07 PM ]
posted on February 23, 2010 07:34:46 PM new
From my experience a return policy means nothing to most buyer.
Once they send back the item your stuck, you have no choice but to refund there money or they will make a complaint with PP or there credit card company. You can't hold a buyers money and the merchandise.
A return policy might help when your dealing with honest buyers and even then the honest buyers are so nice about wanting to return the item that you just say ok, send it back.
Why ebay even makes us have a return policy I will never know.
posted on February 24, 2010 07:57:05 AM new
I have had conversations with eBay representatives in the past regarding this issue.
My understanding is that you should report it to eBay that the item was not returned as it was sold and that you cannot resell it as you previously listed it.
eBay's new policies are muddy and riddled with "interpretations" but you must report this to eBay.
For one thing, eBay will read the responses from the bidder and the feedback left. Also, always respond and/or message through ebay's system. This way they have proof of the conversation and what direction things are going. Her NOT responding and giving a plethora of excuses does not fair well in her favor. Also, did she return it with tracking or delivery confirmation? If not, she has no proof of mailing it to you which makes it difficult for her to file a chargeback. Bidders make tons of mistakes in returns, some purposeful some not.
If she has previous feedback stating that she has returned items in different condition or missing tags, I would also reference this when contacting eBay. eBay will take all of this into consideration when handling the transaction. You may be surprised how they handle it.
I had a buyer that claimed damage to a vintage typewriter. He kept emailing me demanding refunds, etc. but never once responded to my emails I sent him (through ebay's system). He filed a dispute through ebay claiming I was being difficult. After eBay reviewed the transaction and communication they ruled in my favor because I used their messaging system and it clearly showed that I did everything possible to cooperate with him. They closed his claim. He went onto Paypal and did receive a refund, however it didn't come from my account.
It seems that eBay will sometimes work with sellers, and if you handle it professionally you can go far. I would call eBay armed with a list of questions. Get the CSR's name/id. The key is working with eBay instead of against it.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Feb 24, 2010 07:58 AM ]
posted on February 24, 2010 05:07:22 PM new
There are ways to put the tag back with the purse.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on February 24, 2010 06:15:38 PM new
shagmidmod: Good advice. I will call Ebay tomorrow. Have been away from my computer, but do think Ebay should know about such things even if it does not do me any good on this item.
I have been careful to only send her messages through Ebay's messaging system. The last email she sent me she sent directly to my email address. I answered her back through the Ebay system.
I would love to have a surprise from Ebay in the seller's favor. I did leave follow up feedback saying she returned the purse without the tag attached. I also saw that she bought another purse of the same designer (different style.)She also has a few negs when she was selling purses stating that she had misrepresented them.
posted on February 24, 2010 07:05:53 PM new
I have to ask. Since she also sells and misrepresents purses on eBay, are you sure she returned the original authentic purse to you and not a copy?
posted on February 24, 2010 07:52:49 PM new
pixiamom wrote: I have to ask. Since she also sells and misrepresents purses on eBay, are you sure she returned the original authentic purse to you and not a copy?
I was thinking exactly the same thing (great minds and all that)...
Is the serial number (often hidden inside) the same for the item you sent and received?
It could be the classic "buy (authentic designer purse), switch (for fake one) and return (for refund)" scam that PayPal and eBay fail to protect against.
If you sent the item by USPS and received a fake back you need to contact the Postal Inspectors and your local Police to file fraud charges.
posted on February 25, 2010 06:57:38 AM new
OK, I give up. I have spent a half hour trying to figure out how to talk to an Ebay rep. I am a Top Rated Seller, I have done it before, but I cannot find a phone # or a link. HELP!!
Before when I found it it gave me a PIN to include so that I went directly to a rep. I cannot figure out how I did that.
posted on February 25, 2010 07:19:12 AM new
OK, finally found the phone # and the PIN. Not sure I will be able to find it again.
Spoke to a rep Abigail. She put me on hold and spoke to Security and said that I was not obligated to refund her money since it was not returned in the same condition as sent!!
I repeated this information to her twice since I was surprised and she said that was correct, I was not obligated to refund any money since she did not return it in the same condition as she received it.
posted on February 25, 2010 10:20:28 AM new
In my ebay click on the help tap on top right when you get there just choose from one of the questions that are listed, it will take you to a page that shows Contact Ebay, it will show up on the right top of the page, just click on that and there is where the phone number is and your pin
posted on February 25, 2010 11:13:08 AM new
toni, that did not really work until I picked that someone had hijacked my account!!
They kept giving me choices on different FAQs. There was a girl with a headset on in the picture, but no phone #. I did find it earlier, but they do not make it easy.
posted on February 26, 2010 07:47:17 AM new
Merrie, I hope that all works out for you. Keep us updated because sharing your experiences gives us all insight as to how to best handle these types of situations.
tonimar, I think the refund policy is important whether ebay mandates it or not. The purpose of stating YOUR refund policy is to enable you to have has much control over the situation as possible.
A stated refund policy serves as a guideline for ebay service reps and credit card company employees who know knothing about your business or product. It also gives you a better defense should these 3rd parties try to change your directives. If you do not have a policy, then you are allowing them full control over how a return is handled and will have little recourse should you need to challenge their decision.
You stand a much better chance in winning a dispute if you have an established TOS and conduct your business as a business instead of as a hobby.
posted on February 26, 2010 06:37:09 PM new
The other shoe has dropped, as I knew it must. She has opened a dispute. Most of what she says is incorrect, but we will see how it turns out.
I do appreciate all of the advice on clearly stating a return policy. She is using that against me and mine was way too general, so I am in the midst of revising it on my items.And being sure to be clear on all new listings.
I have been selling for over 12 years and have had very, very few returns, perhaps 3 in thousands of listings so I guess I was too complacent.
posted on February 26, 2010 06:56:43 PM new
Sorry to hear she has taken the low road. We can only hope that her Karma comes round to bite her in the b...
posted on February 26, 2010 07:34:16 PM new
I'm not selling in the designer purse market, but have you verified that the purse she sent back to you was the original purse sent? If so, I would issue a partial refund, based on the selling price less the difference in the price with tags detached. If it's not the same purse, I'd deny any refund, exposing her for the cheat that she is. Edited to add: if you don't know the serial number, look closely at the stitching, stitch by stitch.
[ edited by pixiamom on Feb 26, 2010 07:39 PM ]
posted on February 27, 2010 05:16:56 AM new
PP is not going to let you keep the purse and the buyers money. For one good reason its illegal. Basic sales contract law the seller gets money the buyer gets stuff. Buyer not happy seller gets stuff back buyer gets money back. Everyone is equal more or less some are happy some not happy. Fight the case as long as you wish outcome will be the same. Refund re-list move on.
posted on February 27, 2010 06:23:23 AM new
I will gladly give her a partial refund or return the purse to her so she can resell it on Ebay since she thinks that will be so easy to do in its current condition.
She frankly says in her statement that she removed the tag, put her items into the purse to take it for a test drive and was not comfortable with it. Technically, it is not new any more. She used it. If she had not removed the tag prior to her "test" there wouldn't be such a problem.
posted on February 27, 2010 08:52:32 AM new
lol, "took it for a test drive". The minute I heard that one, the transaction would have been over and when the purse showed up in the mail I would have returned it to her marked Delivery Not Accepted.
The audacity of some people never fails to amaze me.
