posted on October 2, 2012 04:17:39 PM new
Got an email from Ebay saying my rights as a seller could be infringed if the below happens. Does anyone belong to Main Street Ebay??
Citizens for Ownership Rights Collecting Petition Signatures to Protect Rights to Resell
An upcoming Supreme Court case, Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, involves an eBay seller who was sued by a textbook publisher for reselling books. The seller, a graduate student and entrepreneurial seller, sold the books to help cover tuition expenses. These were legitimate books that the book publisher manufactured overseas — they were not counterfeit, pirated, or stolen. Yet, the publisher is trying to use U.S. copyright law to stop the book sales and make the seller pay $600,000 in damages – more than 15 times what he made from selling the books.
It is possible that an extreme application of U.S. copyright law might enable manufacturers to force retailers and consumers to first have to obtain permission from the manufacturer before reselling or even donating goods manufactured overseas. This rule could affect most of the goods we use every day, from books to cell phones. Manufacturers would retain ownership of an item no matter how many times it changes owner. This rule could threaten the laws of ownership and resale that we all enjoy.
When you purchase an item on eBay, you should be able to resell it, give it away, or use it as you see fit. Likewise, when you sell an item on eBay, ownership of the item should transfer to the buyer.
Citizens for Ownership Rights (CFOR) is a coalition of public interest organizations asking individuals to stand up for their rights as buyers and sellers. CFOR is currently gathering signatures for a petition that will be sent directly to the President and Attorney General urging them to support the rights of Americans to purchase legitimate goods, resell those goods, give them away, or use them in any legal manner as they see fit. Visit ownershiprights.org and sign the petition to protect your ownership rights.
posted on October 2, 2012 06:17:19 PM new
Never heard of that,but there was some rumbles on AMZN allowing some individuals who were given presale books for personal or business review to resell them on AMZN.
The book industry is funny,it is different,may be the intellectual rights,copyrights etc,I know in France and Northern Europe,the booksellers cannot markdown the books and sell them cheap.
This is how retail bookstores survive,gives the owners a dignified professional living standard,unlike here,when Barnes and Noble or AMZN place an order,everyone drops everything they are doing to fill the orders,then the newly published books stay on the table facing the entrance of Barnes and Noble for two weeks and then returned to the publisher which dispose them at liquidation and found it way to Ebay and Half.com and AMAZON.
posted on October 3, 2012 07:45:02 AM new
Many books are printed overseas-Hong Kong,Singapore and China.
Just because the printer prints the books,it has no rights to sell the books on its own,sometimes a few copies may appear on the market,could be samples or flawed copies meant for the dumpster !
To end up being sued by the publisher,this graduate student must be selling enough copies to warrant not only investigation but a lawsuit from the publisher.
these books are probably stolen by factory workers and sold to a third party and found its way to this graduate student!
posted on October 3, 2012 08:53:39 AM new
You might look at more search results for this, as the web site for the petition drive is slightly disengenous.
It is not unilaterally blocking sale of items manufactured in other countries, but only those purchased in them as well. So it does not mean you cannot resell your phone, etc. in U.S. (assuming you purchased it in U.S.). So, no, you don't have to worry about selling your iPhone at a yard sale, or donating used items to charity.
In spite of efforts to paint the litigant as poor, struggling student, he is an unauthorized reseller of products. How far the challenge can go, or what can be done remains to be seen, but don't expect this loophole, even if found legal, to last for long.
posted on October 3, 2012 12:17:15 PM new
here are Ebay sellers on Ebay discussing the case
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller-Central/Citizens-For-Ownership/5200109528
posted on October 3, 2012 12:23:28 PM new
So this seller asked friends and relatives in Thailand to buy the same textbooks cheap and sent them to USA for him to sell.
Before internet,folks who live close to Mexican border will cross the border to fill prescription drugs for himself and friends on a regular basis,but not for resale.
posted on October 3, 2012 01:26:25 PM new
I figure this way. If I purchase something legally, I have the right to sell it, donate it, throw it into the trash, run over it with my car, etc. I do not have the right to make copies or sell items that were designated for distruction.
If this were not true, no one could resell their car!
posted on October 3, 2012 02:35:14 PM new
..If I purchase something legally, I have the right to sell it, donate it, throw it into the trash...
In general, yes. But there are exceptions, and cases where for whatever reason and intent, regulation was permitted. I have items in my medicine cabinet that I purchased, yet it is unlikely that I can legally resell them. In some countries, and I think even California, a "royalty" is due when re-selling the art works of a living artist.
Ebay has a vested interest in this issue, and their email was not telling the entire story. It is not simply "you can't resell anything manufactured overseas".
Apparently copyright laws in the case may or may not be enforceable, but that remains to be seen.
posted on October 3, 2012 06:54:43 PM new
It is true,we can sell our dirty underwear but we cannot sell our drug in our medicine cabinet.
What about some selling home made fruit cakes on Ebay?
posted on October 4, 2012 04:23:07 AM new
lot of state fed regs on the production and sale of food you might be able to make and sell a limited number of fruit cakes without being licensed. You would still have to meet any rules eBay might have. Whip up a few and give it a shot!
posted on October 4, 2012 04:23:10 AM new
lot of state fed regs on the production and sale of food you might be able to make and sell a limited number of fruit cakes without being licensed. You would still have to meet any rules eBay might have. Whip up a few and give it a shot!
posted on October 4, 2012 06:19:05 AM new
We have a local supermarket which has good deal on fresh Maine Lobsters.
If you buy 10 or more and pay cash ,it is 5.99 per lobster,may be I can try that??
posted on October 4, 2012 06:57:14 AM new
mix some moonshine or vodka and a lot of water with red food coloring bottle it up and sell it as Lostmymojo pain killer. You should be able to get 19.95 for a 6 oz bottle. Send me a dollar per bottle for the idea!
posted on October 4, 2012 04:40:07 PM new
Of course there are things prohibited from resale due to state or federal laws, postal restrictions & hopefully common sense!!
Ebay has prohibited sales of alcohol recently listed in the collectibles area because they were being bought by underage buyers.
Anyone that would buy second hand prescription drugs must be crazy.
posted on October 4, 2012 07:40:22 PM new
moonshine vodka?
I would have to speak to my cousin in Kentucky about this.
there are sellers peddling their fruit cakes on Ebay the last time I looked,thats many moons ago.
posted on October 6, 2012 11:12:44 AM new
Many years ago we came across a set of noise cancelling headphones (used for hunting or construction sites). They were new in the package. I listed them on eBay.
Within a few days I received a notice from Vero cancelling the listing because the manufacturer claimed copyright infringement.
I contacted the manufacturer to figure out their claim. Basically, they didn't want me selling their product. According to them, they have exclusive contracts with dealers authorized to sell their item.
I disputed their claim and actions preventing me from selling something that I was the rightful owner of. I was actually surprised that eBay sided with me on it. I don't remember the company, but they got really nasty with me over it threatening to sue me. I responded back with a letter by mail stating that they had no claim to infringe on my right to sell items that I legally owned and that they improperly used the Vero system by making a false claim of copyright infringement. Never heard back from them.
posted on October 6, 2012 11:34:12 AM new
Shag: good for you. That is basically my thoughts. If I legally bought something, I should be able to resell it.
I was talking to one of my suppliers about this issue. She said if her vendors have a contract with her company, they must follow the contract. Mostly lots of rules against discounting, but, if a customer buys their items at a store or even at their outlet store, they (the manufacturer) have no right to limit the reselling or to have any input on the prices the buyer charges.
posted on October 6, 2012 12:34:06 PM new
So this graduate student found cheap textbooks in overseas bookstores and asked his relatives to buy a whole bunch and shipped to him so he can resell on Ebay.
And it sounds like he either sold $40,000 worth of books or made a profit of $40,000.
Thats called arbitrage !
If the publisher priced the book at the same price ,he wont be able to do any arbitraging!
posted on October 6, 2012 12:51:31 PM new
International law is significantly different than US law. If he did something illegal, then yes, he should be responsible for it.
The issue I see here is whether eBay is misleading sellers to believe this is something that it is not.
In Oregon we have two ballot measures that one will allow for the first non-Native American Casino in the state. The second measure will allow the rights for independent Casino's to be built all over the state, though none are currently being proposed other than the one in the first ballot measure.
In the ads supporting the Casino, they say that "both measures only allow for this one Casino to be built" which as I stated is not true. The opposition for the new Casino is coming from the current Casino's in Oregon that are held by the Native American tribes on their land. Both sides are lying about the facts.
I am skeptical to support ANYTHING eBay sends when it comes to legislation because eBay has worked tirelessly to find new ways to make money off of the sellers while making it more difficult for sellers to thrive... yet when it possibly affects eBay directly they want the support of sellers. I refuse to be a pawn in their game. If eBay gets shutdown I would not cry. Yes, it might financially hurt for a moment, but I have no interest in protecting the big corporations whatsoever. They get what they deserve.
posted on October 6, 2012 01:09:38 PM new
"Citizens for Ownership Rights"
I have seen these so called "citizen" organizations before. They are nothing but front groups to persuade the general public to support their corporate agenda in politics and the legal system.
They use great names that make you believe they are doing something in your interest when they are strictly serving their interests and benefit by duping people into signing petitions and contributing money to their cause. It creates the myth of public support.
Like BP and their "Gulf of Mexico Foundation" who work to make you believe everything is just fine after the oil spill.
posted on October 6, 2012 01:18:33 PM new
What this is truly about is one big business industry battling another big business industry. Neither side could care about the small guy other than to use them as pawns to support their cause.
posted on October 7, 2012 01:17:59 PM new
Announcment:
Sellers: US Supreme Court case may affect your rights—act now
We’d like to encourage you to consider joining eBay Main Street, a grassroots organization of eBay members taking action to promote smart government policy and protect the rights and interests of ecommerce sellers like you.
Right now, eBay Main Street is working to protect an entrepreneurial eBay seller who will be at the center of a case in front of the US Supreme Court later this month. This eBay seller, a student putting himself through college by selling authentic books that he legally purchased, was challenged by a publisher clinging to an old business model that relies on restricting trade to geographic borders.
The outcome of this case could have significant implications for your rights as a seller. Learn more and join other eBay sellers on eBay Main Street and make your voice heard.
Related Posts
Sellers: Recent and upcoming updates may affect your listings—take action now - April 3rd, 2012
Sellers: Offer extended! List for 5¢ in Books, Music, Movies & DVDs and Video Games* through June 30, 2012 - December 22nd, 2011
Sellers: Returns options to be retired, deadlines for Top-rated sellers approaching—take action now - April 27th, 2012
Top-rated sellers: Time to meet tracking requirement extended by one month - June 19th, 2012
Sellers: USPS® First-Class Package service to be reclassified from Expedited to Standard—take action now - April 24th, 2012
posted on October 7, 2012 01:21:01 PM new
Those related posts were right there under this announcement even though several of them are outdated. I did not add them.
posted on October 7, 2012 01:52:36 PM new
Tiffany took Ebay to court several years ago and lost,they accused EBAY of false advertising by allowing knockoffs to be sold on Ebay.
Since then Ebay has created rules to restrict Asian sellers from listing zillions of Tiffany items claiming to be part of their own personal collection.
Now what happens if an overseas retail bookstore has a website and sell these books to anyone from any country?
posted on October 7, 2012 02:21:35 PM new
"consider joining eBay Main Street, a grassroots organization of eBay members taking action to promote smart government policy and protect the rights and interests of ecommerce sellers like you."
Ask yourself this simple question - Do you think eBay Main Street would address issues sellers have with eBay, particularly through government policy or the legal system?
Say if the sellers were discussing signing a petition to Congress to restrict eBay policies that prevent sellers from having a business identity? Or a seller lawsuit against eBay/Paypal for monopolizing the payment system?
posted on October 7, 2012 03:05:04 PM new
I think it is a bit ironic they named this "eBay Main Street" a political spin off of the Main Street (little guy) vs. Wall Street. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it, especially considering eBay is far from being "main street" in how they behave.
posted on October 7, 2012 03:25:18 PM new
Yeah,if law said we cant sell any preowned Cartier,Tifany,Dunhill,Disney,Dell,Canon on Ebay,Ebay stock will drop to the teens!
Most of Ebay rules and restrictions have to do with allowing anyone everyone to sell anything everything from anywhere in the world,would the mall owner tells Target,Walmart,Nordstrom and Nieman Marcus what to do and how to sell and what payment it should accept?
Would there be a message propped up telling Walmart it has just exceeded the number of listings allowed,wait till some get sold or expired before listing more?
Or Neiman Marcus shoudld wait for a positive feedback of ten before trying to sell on Ebay Canada?
Oh,I love this one-
to reinstate your seller account,take a picture of yourself with your merchandise and a big sign with your seller ID and passport number/driver license number! and fax or email to suspendgalore%ebay.com
posted on October 7, 2012 04:13:25 PM new
Here's another new rule I like (not)
Sellers: Email addresses and some URLs no longer allowed in Member-to-Member messages
Beginning November 1, eBay’s member-to-member contact policy will be updated to prohibit members from exchanging in member-to-member communications email addresses or URLs to non-eBay sites that don’t directly help buyers purchase items on eBay. Messages that include phone numbers and links to additional information that aid in the purchase decision or facilitate item delivery—warranties, manuals, and tracking links, for example—will still be permitted. We discourage buyers and sellers from sending offers to buy and sell outside of eBay, as these transactions are not covered by eBay Buyer Protection.
For more information about these changes, see eBay’s Member-to-member contact policy, and learn more about eBay Buyer Protection.
Lost: is that really true about the picture & your passport or driver's license??
PS: I love the reason they have this rule, "because the transactions are not covered by eBay Buyer Protection" Yeah, right!!
[ edited by merrie on Oct 7, 2012 04:15 PM ]
