Child molesters thrive due to ignorance and wishful thinking. Some common misconceptions:
1. Child molesters molest children, and don't care if they're boys or girls.
False: child molesters almost always prefer boys or girls, not both. Exceptions exist, of course.
2. My 12 year old boy is just not a sexual target. I know my girls are, but not my boy.
False: all 12 to 14 year old boys are sexual targets. By 15-16 they usually, but not always know enough to tell the molester to go away.
3. Men who are extra nice to children are a rare treat.
False: the striking thing homosexual molesters have in common is an unusual rapport with their victims. That's the technique applied. If an adult seems to be treating your boy like a friend rather than acting as an adult, that's a reason to get very scared.
4. My boy wouldn't enjoy sex with an adult man.
False: your 12 year old hasn't experienced sex as yet. The molester wants that first experience to be with the molester, and he's very good at making your boy like it. Then your boy will become a molester himself.
5. If my boy encounters a molester, he'll tell me.
False (mostly). Eventually, he will, but boys are extraordinarily unlikely to tell. They don't understand their victim status, and they don't feel like getting the molester in trouble. The molester is good at perpetuating this status, treating the boy as if he was an adult.
posted on July 9, 2001 06:34:55 PM new
I would like to add one thing to this list. I know of a 13 year old boy who molested a 5 year old. He always liked to play with the young kids. Supervise your children with all, this child had been a friend of the family for years.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:13:47 PM new
Adolescent boys do sometimes go off track and initiate sexual activity with young girls, sometimes even baby girls.
It's a different mechanism, and luckily one which is more intuitively understandable for most mothers (who quite reasonably choose adolescent girls for babysitters rather than boys).
In the more rare case when adolescent boys are accused of homosexual molestation of 5 year old boys, it usually comes down to cruel violence. Yet again a different mechanism, akin to torturing animals.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:14:33 PM new
Fuzz, I could be wrong but I think the implication was "people who molest children of the same sex" as opposed to those who molest children of the opposite sex. Poor word choice but that's probably it.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:23:45 PM new
I won't pretend to be knowledgable, but I think child molestation is different then adult rape in the sense that it's primarily about violence and not sexual. I'm sure there are online resources that clarify.
posted on July 9, 2001 08:56:32 PM new
lotsafuzz, two issues.
1. I know of no important correlation between an adult homosexual lifestyle and homosexual child molestion. I DO know that homosexual child molesters operate in "deep cover", to fool the parents of their victims. Leading an openly gay lifestyle would not enhance that deception. An interesting topic, but for another thread. For now, be clear, I'm not accusing openly gay men of being homosexual child molesters, and I'll clearly say that's because I see no evidence of correlation.
2. Power and rage.
The essence of the homosexual child molestation act: the molester derives intense sexual pleasure from being there at the first and immediately subsequent orgasims of the young boy. The victim, having truly enjoyed the experiences, goes on to become the molester. It's a virus. I see nothing to do with power and rage in that cycle, but if you do, go ahead and explain.
posted on July 9, 2001 09:16:02 PM newI DO know that homosexual child molesters operate in "deep cover", to fool the parents of their victims.
Do you know of any hetrosexual child molesters who shout from the rooftops that they are child molesters? I've certainly never heard of any. My point above is it is untruthful, unfair, and quite ignorant for anyone to believe (or report as fact) that homosexual are more likely than any other person to be a child molester. A child molester is one no matter what their sex OR their sexual (adult) prefrence.
A man who likes other men, or a woman who likes other woman is NOT any more or less likely to like children in a sexual way.
2. Again you focus on so-called 'homosexual child molestation'. Why? There ARE gay people who are NOT child molesters AND there ARE child molesters who are NOT gay. Do you really think that straight child molesters do NOT derives intense sexual pleasure from being there at the first and immediately subsequent orgasims of the young boy.?
As for the issues of power: As with rape (which again, is LESS about sex and MORE about power/rage) child molestation is about exibiting power (and/or pain) upon the victim. You mention the cycle. It is true that there is a good chance that a victim of molestation (moreso without therapy) will become a molester themselves, however it is not because the sexual activity feels good (although it can, making the situation even more confusing to a child), but because the molester 1) Thinks the act is normal (as an example, the 13 year old who attacks a younger child), AND 2) they wish to hurt the victim they way they were hurt.
The victim, having truly enjoyed the experiences, goes on to become the molester.
That just doesn't fly. Are you saying that a child who does NOT physically enjoy the situation will NOT become a molester because the experience wasn't physically enjoyable?
posted on July 9, 2001 09:24:14 PM new
If you are interested in what motivates the molester and you have a stomach made of lead do what I just spent some time doing. Find a Usenet erotica stories group. People post their fantasy (one hopes) stories. Unless these things were written by monkeys with word processors, it seems these are real windows into the mind of real predators. I saw two strains; one type of person gets off on being violent and the other goes to great lengths to portray it as misunderstood but legitimate love.
Eh, the internet. Sodom and Gomorrah and Shangri La. It never ceases to amaze me. I think I'm going to be sick.
posted on July 9, 2001 09:30:03 PM new
James: Your post reminded me of a story I read the other day in the paper (no link, sorry). A man was tried and convicted for writting his fantasies about child torture/molestation in his journal. I don't know how his journal was found, but the story was that it was never intended for public viewing.
He never acted on anything he wrote, he was charged and convicted just for writing it.
I'm of mixed feelings on that: On one hand, a case can be made (an apparently was) that if a person thinks it they could do it.....and who ISN'T supportive of protecting someone from a violent predator.
On the other hand, no one arrested Steven King for writing about murdering people. Convicting people because of their thoughts is just to 1984 for me. Also, it is my understanding that you can't arrest someone for something they 'might' do 'sometime' in the future.
posted on July 9, 2001 09:32:43 PM newAre you saying that a child who does NOT physically enjoy the situation will NOT become a molester because the experience wasn't physically enjoyable?
Yes.
I'm saying that as clear as a bell.
The boy who does not enjoy the experience is in NO danger of becoming a molester (no increased danger based on the incident, anyway).
Understand, it's real hard not to enjoy an orgasm which has been induced by contact with a person whom you've really come to like.
[ edited by roofguy on Jul 9, 2001 09:44 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2001 09:33:39 PM new
I don't know who or what writes these things, but there seems to be gigabytes of it floating around news servers all over the world. I'm sure the FBI has people who go through usenet and I guess there are experts who can separate "fact from fiction".
BTW, I have no idea if all people that fantasize about child molestation act on it or will eventually act. But I'm sure this kind of fantasy is an important symptom.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Jul 9, 2001 09:35 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2001 10:24:30 PM newroofguy, what made you bring up such a thing?
I see a lot of misundersandings and naivete, and a story which shows how one molester took advantage of that.
Everyone knows that girls are sexual targets. Lots of people don't know that boys are, and of those who know, many don't understand what is going on, and thus cannot protect their kids effectively.
I'm not saying that all homosexual molesters follow the described cycle, but most of them do.
posted on July 9, 2001 10:28:53 PM new
roofguy, can I ask you one sincere question?
Do you have any prejudices regarding homosexuals?
Edited to add:
roofguy - "I DO know that homosexual child molesters operate in "deep cover", to fool the parents of their victims."
You say "I DO" know......have you been effected by this in some way? You seem to know quite a bit about how a child molester thinks, which leads me to thinking you've been involved somehow......
posted on July 9, 2001 10:41:05 PM newroofguy-May I ask what the source for your information and/or "facts" are?
Yes, boys are also targets for molesters. Yes, there are molesters who prey on girls only and yes there are molesters who prey on boys only. I can draw that conclusion from cases that make the headlines. However, I don't understand some of your other statements, so I was wondering how you arrived at them.
posted on July 9, 2001 11:17:58 PM new
kraftdinner: if you'd like my opinions regarding adult gay lifestyles, politics, etc, go ahead and start a thread and I'll participate.
Again, I don't believe that openly gay males are particularly likely to molest boys.
As you might guess, I'm prejudiced against homosexual child molesters. The rest is for some other thread.
Sulyn1950: if you have a different analysis, go ahead and post. I have no agenda of claiming some broad, unassailable Truth, and I don't mind encountering opposing analyses.
James' wish to the contrary, this is not a territory where the all answers are well accepted by all experts.
posted on July 9, 2001 11:34:23 PM new
roofguy, all I'm saying, is that while your topic has merit and deserves discussion, the slant you have taken regarding homosexuals, almost cancels your point.
You are right, there are some deviant sick-o's out there who molest children, but even if true, you are showing prejudice against homosexuals just by mentioning them in your posts, which makes you appear very narrow minded.
You asked me to start another thread......actually, I think this IS the topic.
posted on July 9, 2001 11:53:48 PM new
kraftdinner, the truth is the truth.
Some child molesters are homosexuals.
That's not a matter of opinion. Look at the url I posted for an excellent example.
A well defined pattern exists with the victim becoming the molester 10-15 years hence. This is a pattern with homosexual molestation, not with heterosexual molestation (for obvious reasons).
If you'd like my list of what is correlated with homosexual child molsters, here it is:
clergyman
coach
An above normal percentage of those are child molesters. I don't think there's anything about being a clergyman or a coach which makes one likely to be a child molester. Rather, I believe that child molesters find such contexts to be effective in creating one on one situations with young boys.
You're going to have to do better than that. You post an article detailing the crime of a member of the clergy and from there you appear to draw conclusions which are not supported by the only source data presented.
You claim thereafter to be making statements of fact when in fact you are exhibiting at best your opinion, or at worst, a set of biases which result from your own personal experience.
If you wish to express your opinion, fine, you have done so, and might consider asking that the thread be locked. If you wish to continue to argue your premise as fact then support your assertions either through empirical data or through your own direct knowledge.
Simply telling others who question your presentation directly that their questions should be the subject of another thread is not sufficient. You no longer have the ability to direct the course of this inquiry.
If you do not care to find that your beliefs do not meet the test of an exploration here then keep them to yourself.
posted on July 10, 2001 12:50:26 AM new
roofguy, I'm not sure I understand this:
"This is a pattern with homosexual molestation, not with heterosexual molestation (for obvious reasons)."
I've heard that children who have been victimized by an adult are twice as likely to become molesters themselves, but have never heard of homosexuals being singled out.
Again, I'm thinking that you must have been affected by this in some way because of your knowledge on the subject.
(Sorry for all the goofy spelling.....it's almost 4:00 am and I can't sleep )
posted on July 10, 2001 01:59:38 AM new
You will probably want to get a group up and stone me - but there would be a lot less problems with molestation if there were still not a huge body of people who want to pretend that their little darlings have no sexual nature at all and that nobody should talk about anything having to do with sex with them until they are about 18 - at which time they should be allowed to notice those hormones that have been building in their bodies for the last 6 years or so.
The trouble is most can't figure out how to avoid the subject of sex without also avoiding love, and if you think the kids don't know it is the most important social game in town even before they feel
biological urges then you think they are stupid.
Given the choice between cold unloving parents and relatives who deny them the dignity of having feelings and a relationship with a molestor who appears to offer SOME form of what appears to be affection a child can make a bad choice given the alternative is pretty cruel also. It is not like all these kids come from a caring nuclear family that meets their needs.
posted on July 10, 2001 05:37:36 AM new...and he's very good at making your boy like it.
What bullsh*t to suggest that children derive pleasure from being sexually, physically, and mentally violated by an adult or authority figure whom they might possibly trust.
posted on July 10, 2001 06:48:43 AM new
How do you think it is presented? Now I am going to hurt you? Children are persuaded to go along with this - very few are kidnaped and locked up or chained to a post by a stranger. Most are sweet talked by a family friend - family member or authority figure, and free to walk away but they want to please the person and value their relationship.
Face it - you've seen adult women engage in normal sex for the benefits of a relationship to a man and provider without really wanting the sex because of past bad relationships and being raised weird. They accomadate their partner even if they feel sex is bad and disgusting for the other benefits.
How many other things do children do every day they don't really want to do? That is the biggest thing most of us teach children is to do as they are told even if they don't want to do so. The schools for sure teach that everyday - and after all the propaganda to do as you are told and eat your spinich and stop talking to your friend you are going to tell them "Oh - except for this one thing. You can say no for that." I was fortunate my parents taught me to say no to a great deal of things. When my teachers asked unreasonable things I knew I could say no. I was never broken like a horse to saddle. Of course that does not leave me a very compliant citizen or worker bee.....however when my weird cousin wanted me to take my pants off I told him to drop his own drawers and take a hike bare assed without any hesitation. I'd had a lot of practice already saying no.
posted on July 10, 2001 08:41:17 AM newIt is not like all these kids come from a caring nuclear family that meets their needs.
It's also not like having a caring nuclear family is strong protection from the molester.
The key crack exploited by the molester is the normal adult male-boy relationship, which is somewhat aloof, even in a caring family. The molester comes down to the boy's level. The boy has never been treated that way by an adult male before, and he likes it.
The best defense is to observe this kind of behavior by adult males, particularly those who have achieved a position which grants them access to 12-14 year old boys. Then, to educate boys, exactly like the girls, that adult men who take any physical interest in the boy's private parts should be reported to parents and police. Then, of course, one should be reluctant to allow one-on-one situations to come to exist, but a parent cannot reasonably block all such potential.
posted on July 10, 2001 09:12:58 AM newWhat bullsh*t to suggest that children derive pleasure from being sexually, physically, and mentally violated by an adult or authority figure whom they might possibly trust.
This is why I posted.
You think those boys don't say anything because they're being threatened with torture if they talk? No.
They're not talking because they enjoy the experience, and they like the molester.
Parents who think they'll detect homosexual child molestation by seeing evidence of painful or otherwish unwanted experiences are simply missing the threat.
The guy in question molested 29 boys (at least) 75 times (at least) before the parents got suspicious enough to get him stopped.
