krs
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posted on November 16, 2001 11:14:13 PM new
http://www.georgewbushstore.com
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plsmith
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posted on November 17, 2001 01:21:35 AM new
I've already got the badge I'll need by 2004:
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 06:36:50 AM new
Wow! What a frightening way to start the day. If the United States and the world survive the first four years of George Bush we will be lucky. This, unfortunately is not an exaggeration.
But with the corporate owned media at his disposal spinning his disasters into victories, it's possible that the average American will vote again for this atrocious bastard.
Helen
sp.ed.
[ edited by hjw on Nov 17, 2001 06:38 AM ]
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 06:52:36 AM new
Hell, at the rate that we are losing our civil liberties, by 2004 there may be no election in 2004....due to an *international crisis.* Even that would not surprise me.
Helen
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nanastuff
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posted on November 17, 2001 08:19:02 AM new
First of all, let me say I did NOT vote for Bush (make no "mistake" about that). I have been accused of being TOO liberal more than once. Second of all I am going to get blasted for what I am about to say; I know it, so go for it. Will you people chill?? Terrible things have happened in the past and terrible things will happen in the future. As a child, I remember the "duck & cover" days. I guess my point is that we MUST trust in our leaders....what are you or I going to do about it? We can sit and #*!@ and post all the news links in the world; it will change NOTHING. We must trust our leaders, no matter who they are. (okay, done with rant....go at it)
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:19:28 AM new
Unconditional trust in anything or anybody is risky business. Unconditional trust in our leaders is dangerous.
Helen
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snowyegret
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:27:02 AM new
Helen, I completely agree.
Especially when the *leaders* have shown dubious moral character in the past, and their present actions impinge on our Bill of Rights.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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nanastuff
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:29:24 AM new
I said " I guess my point is that we MUST trust in our leaders....what are you or I going to do about it?"
edited to say: I said nothing about unconditional trust....that is not the point. We can go back and forth on this 'till doomsday (God forbid).
[ edited by nanastuff on Nov 17, 2001 09:49 AM ]
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:32:03 AM new
I'm just thinking, for example of Ashcroft with a mustache and unconditional trust. Who does that remind you of?
You ask, what are we going to do about it? First we don't encourage everybody to blindly trust our leaders.
Helen
typo
[ edited by hjw on Nov 17, 2001 09:36 AM ]
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snowyegret
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:33:18 AM new
We must trust our leaders, no matter who they are
Nanastuff, a few points.
What if your leader is misguided or evil?
What will happen if *we* don't trust? Questions? Those are fundamental to a democratic government. If you don't like the answers, don't ask. But others do have the right to question. I would submit that blind faith is one of the most effective tools of fascism.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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snowyegret
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:38:32 AM new
A little election parody Song
Had to add popup warning for this site.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
[ edited by snowyegret on Nov 17, 2001 09:47 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:42:22 AM new
Who said unconditional trust Helen? I think a 51% trust rating is the most we can expect from anyone in power. With what the U.S. was dealt, and the shock everyone was/is going through, I don't think the U.S. has done that bad.
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:43:39 AM new
snowyegret
That song sums it up very well!!!
Helen
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:52:44 AM new
Kraftdinner
I was replying to nanastuff who stated that we MUST trust our leaders. For the welfare of the country, we must NOT trust our leaders.
George has been a shock syndrome.
That's true.
Helen
I have to go out for a few hours.
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chococake
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posted on November 17, 2001 10:34:45 AM new
nanastuff, I'm sorry, but trust Bush and gang? And for what we can do. Nothing at the moment except what we are doing. Ask questions, and make sure the administration knows we will not follow blindly.
In the future VOTE! Vote these big business, oil people, and war mongers out of office. Do you really think his approval rating will remain high? I don't!
If it's not too early for Bush to start his election campaign it's not too early for us to make sure he's not elected.
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nanastuff
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posted on November 17, 2001 10:50:00 AM new
Yea yea......the song is cute ha ha. I AM the cheerleader to tell you folks that we are going to be fine 'cause somebody else will come along and make it all better. (then the conservatives can take over this forum). Think about it.
Helen said: "You ask, what are we going to do about it? First we don't encourage everybody to blindly trust our leaders." I didn't ask what we are NOT going to do about it...and I didn't say that I blindly trust our leaders. I am not blind in this. I said we MUST trust for a reason; because WE cannot do anything BUT trust them. We can go back and forth on these boards forever and it won't solve a damn thing.
Snowy said: "If you don't like the answers, don't ask. But others do have the right to question. I would submit that blind faith is one of the most effective tools of fascism." WOW..not sure what you mean by that snowy. Are you talking to me personally or in general? You said everyone has the right to question..yep, you're right, but I don't see many questions asked here....I only see critism and some really rotton remarks. What is your point? I don't think I asked anything to deserve the "fascism" remark. You can look back at the TWO questions that I asked. Another thing you said: "Especially when the *leaders* have shown dubious moral character in the past, and their present actions impinge on our Bill of Rights." I (sorry) really had to laugh at that one. Out Bill of Rights will be just fine! "leaders" all through history have shown dubious moral character wayyyyyyyy back.....it just wasn't advertised!
I still say we MUST trust our leaders. You all can call it blind faith, you can call it unconditional faith.....I am sick to death of seeing the constant criticism! We will be okay!
edited just 'cause I can
[ edited by nanastuff on Nov 17, 2001 11:04 AM ]
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nanastuff
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posted on November 17, 2001 11:00:12 AM new
chococake.YES!! Ask questions! Absolutely! But is this the source to ask questions?? Are we asking questions of the "right" people? or are we just bantering back and forth. AW has become so terribly one sided with the "bash bush" threads. This is NOT asking questions. I truly do not unconditionally and blindly trust our government (notice I did not say Bush), but I AM to the point where I MUST trust them. At this moment in time, I see no other choice. I do vote and I did not vote for him....(wish I knew how to post that little puke guy).
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blairwitch
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posted on November 17, 2001 11:03:57 AM new
I used to be a republican until the republican party stole last years election. For years I was told the republican party stood for morality, BUT that was shattered for me last fall watching those republicans doing anything they could to stop the counting of votes in Florida. The way minorities were banned from voting sickened me, and the pat buchannan votes were a huge mistake. Even buchannan himself said they were Gore votes. I cant call bush my president even though I voted for him because in my heart I know he lost. 
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nanastuff
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posted on November 17, 2001 11:15:02 AM new
blairwitch....Holy crap! I am not saying that I disagree with you, but I will say GET OVER IT! Geesh. That TOO is something that we can do nothing about and hopefully it won't happen again, because lots of people asked questions and rebelled in the RIGHT places. I am not trying to shut this board up.....I truly am not. I would just like to see a little less "Bush" bashing and a lot more ideas of what we can do as individuals to help this country instead of hurting it (to me, bashing our government IS hurting it).
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blairwitch
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posted on November 17, 2001 11:37:39 AM new
nanastuff why would I want to get OVER IT as you say? Will you get OVER what happened in NYC? I know I wont. I will bash bush all I want because he isnt my leader. If he is elected in 2004 legal then yes, but until then no way. More damage took place last year than ever before. All I hear is people complaining about him, and the economy, but you dont see the corporate media reporting about it. So from now on when people complain about losing their job I will say GET OVER IT!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 17, 2001 12:23:39 PM new
Does anyone know who else is possibly running in 2004?
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plsmith
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posted on November 17, 2001 01:40:37 PM new
"We MUST trust our leaders."
Good gravy, Nanastuff, that's what British loyalists told the American colonists who wanted to get out from under British rule in the 18th century. That's what people said when Chamberlain signed the agreement with Hitler. Half this country trusted Richard Nixon when he assured us that he was not a crook.
You say "there's nothing we can do". Au contraire. STRONG, VOCAL outcries about John Ashcroft's unprecedented push for power have resulted in getting some of the more odious aspects of The New Law changed or rescinded.
The only thing I'm going to "get over" is my patience with the complacency of others.
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 02:31:39 PM new
Nanastuff
<quote>
" I said we MUST trust for a reason; because WE cannot do anything BUT trust them. We can go back and forth on these boards forever and it won't solve a damn thing."
<end quote>
To say that we cannot do anything BUT trust them indicates a really hopeless attitude. We can still think critically without blindly accepting whatever we hear and read. We can state our opinions everywhere and we can vote. Public opinion is a powerful influence on these political rascals. 
The word, "must" implies that we should feel unreasonably compelled to put our confidence in George Bush.
I don't see the first reason why we should have any confidence in him.
Helen
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snowyegret
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posted on November 17, 2001 02:49:10 PM new
My loyalty is to the Constitution of the United States and the natural rights protected by it. Our government is bound to uphold the Constitution. When I see politicians chipping away at those rights, I do feel various emotions. Trust is not one of them.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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chococake
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posted on November 17, 2001 02:50:02 PM new
GET OVER IT? I'm sure Bush and the gang would like that. We can't do anything at the moment to get his butt out of the White House, but we also won't forget how he got there!
The only MUST I see here is to watch every move that sneak makes. Speak out on message boards, keep writing to our representatives, and not fall into acceptance for the things done by the people we don't trust.
Nope, I'm not going to get over it!
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hjw
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posted on November 17, 2001 02:57:09 PM new
No way will I "Get Over it!"
The presidential election that became a hostile corporate takeover is not a fact that anyone should accept and say, "Get over it.
Helen
ed. for punctuation
[ edited by hjw on Nov 17, 2001 02:58 PM ]
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stusi
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posted on November 17, 2001 03:01:21 PM new
blairwitch- you are the only Republican I am personally aware of to own up to what happened. good for you!!!
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blairwitch
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posted on November 17, 2001 07:36:46 PM new
kraftdinner I think in 2004 it will be Bush and Gore round 2. In the primary I look for McCain again on the repub side, with john edwards on the demo side. With his bad health I dont know if Cheney will want a 2nd term. I think Gore will choose someone from the south. I expect record turnout in Florida.
stusi all republicans know that Bush did not win, but they are taught to keep their mouths shut. When I saw those republicans pounding on the doors LET ME IN that made me think. I also think the butterfly ballot was made to trick senior citzens into voting for Buchannan. Another clever trick was keeping african-american voters from voting by setting up road blocks. 2002 is when the american people will send a strong message to the republican party. I look for Reno to win in Florida.
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enchanted
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posted on November 17, 2001 07:47:37 PM new
I'm definitely not "over it" either. I don't engage in Bush bashing either, but I have no desire to forget what happened in the last election. I may be calm but I'm not complacent.
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rawbunzel
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posted on November 17, 2001 09:01:18 PM new
Ooooooooo I'm not going to get over it either!
I cannot trust the government they haven't shown to me that they are trustworthy. Question what looks wrong to you. That is the only way to try to keep them in line. You must talk about it to keep the past on peoples minds.Most Americans have the attention span of a gnat [thanks in part to computers]so you have to keep talking.You cannot become complacent.
But of course we cannot discuss this exclusivly here or it would become tedious and boring.
PLSMITH!!! I do not recognize your badge.Everyone else seems to but I have to ask what it represents. Must be my need for those new glasses....
[ edited by rawbunzel on Nov 17, 2001 09:03 PM ]
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