posted on January 3, 2002 11:19:00 AM new
Nearly one hundred years ago, Henry Ford had a brilliant thought. In order to mass-produce the cars that he made with a lower cost and to produce more of them in less time, he came up with an ideal solution. Instead of the two ten-hour shifts at the factory where workers received $2.50 per hour, Henry realized that he could go to three eight-hour shifts and produce more cars, lower his costs on production, and capture more of the market. Sounds like the corporate strategies of today, doesn't it?
But Henry Ford's genius did not stop there. With the insight of a prophet, he doubled the wages of his workers to an unheard of $5.00 per hour! He did not do this because he was a communist who cared about people, or a socialist who wanted to raise the living standards of the common masses, or just simply a bleeding-heart liberal. He realized that if you paid workers more money and gave them more leisure time with shorter work shifts, then they would be able to purchase his cars and buy up all sorts of products, causing the whole local economy to flourish!
That was in strict contrast to the corporate philosophies of the corporate world back then. It was the policy of the company to use the employee as much and as often as possible, even to the detriment of the worker. Those workers in a factory would often work twelve hours a day, six days a week, making less money than they could live on, ensured the maximum profit for the owners and upper management.
Now you're likely thinking that I'm going to compare the latter with the current, aren't you? You're wrong!
These days, it's worse than the old corporate monopolies! Today, not even the customer is of any concern for most corporations. They see customers as a part of the corporation whose purpose is to pour cash into the company coffers. That customers can be badly treated, misused, abused, cheated, and generally crapped upon has become the common corporate philosophy in America!
For instance, take our current economic downturn (all politics aside). With an economic downturn, the marketplace shrinks due to lower demand. What the corporatist want is to keep their current market share, even if the market may no longer exist to the same extent. When the market shrinks, revenues fall, and costs have to be cut somewhere in order to preserve the bottom line. And that's the new approach.
Certainly, nearly everyone wants to keep these corporations out of the red and in the black. And when the Slow Times came upon them, the first thing that they did was to unemploy millions of workers. You may argue that this is just good policy to downsize in worsening economic times, but really, the only people who are being protected are the owners, upper management, and the stockholders.
I suspect that if Henry Ford were here today, he'd likely tell these knuckleheads to go hire back the employees! With employed workers, any economic downturn is only temporary. When you throw people into the poorhouse in order to show Wallstreet that you aren't shrinking with the market (as expected, naturally), you are only shooting yourself in the foot.
That is just one example of modern corporate myths: the most important person in the world is the stockholder. It is not the customer and certainly not the employees (except upper management).
With the 911 attacks, the airline industry stood at the verge of total bankruptcy. Before then, they weren't so healthy either. Too often, the customer was no longer their primary focus and the customer was seen as just bits of data supplying as much income as the corporatist could get away with charging them. Even Congress had to step in to ensure minimal, modest quality of service for customers - imagine that!
Then, 911 came and went and business revenues plummeted. The airlines threatened to dump thousands of workers in order to preserve their bottom line. A sympathetic President jumped through all the hoops in record time in order to pump $$ 6 Billion Dollars $$ into their coffers. Those in Congress and the Senate who did not want people to be made unemployed made this possible. Instead, as soon as the airline industry received the gigantic wampum, they went ahead and laid off all of those workers anyway! The money? Oh, the upper management gave themselves multiple million dollars bonuses and raises! And before you say; 'They'll have to give it back someday with interest', remember that this isn't Chrysler being bailed out and there are no details about repayment. In fact, I'll bet that the airline industry will suffer another downturn and the 6 Billion Dollars will be simply forgiven!
I predict that that those few corporations who treat their customers like gold and their employees like diamonds will survive this Depression in the long run. Those corporations who abuse their customers and dump their employees in order to look good at Wallstreet will fall because they are based upon a poor economic theory. Just ask Henry Ford!
posted on January 3, 2002 12:01:30 PM new
So in other words great big huge businesses have now become just like little mom and pop businesses.
Most of this "downsizing" and export of jobs comes in industries that have been browbeaten by unions for years. I say if someone gets $75000 a year in benefits and salary to put a left window crank on 6 hrs a day, plus gets paid during factory switchovers, plus gets strike pay and unemployment, is the best target in severe times.
Plus think about the thousands of poor starving Mexicans that now have real jobs and can feed their families and can help lift their fellows out of poverty.
posted on January 3, 2002 03:07:41 PM new
Corporations are more of a problem than just down sizing and how they treat customers.
Corporations out live all of us, they control too much in politics, and let's face it, they are a faceless, inhuman machine, and the people working in corporations are merely replaceable parts.
Corporations are not guided by values that individuals hold dear. Corporations are guided by profits, and bring all the power it can muster to reap those profits.
Corporations serve the shareholders because only shareholders get to vote on who runs the company. Who survives economic downturns ? Not the corp that treats its customers or employees well, it is the corp that maximizes profits for the shareholders.
What happens to corps that do not treat customers well. If there is competition, the customers go to the competition. The what ? The corp buys out the competition and gets the customers back.
The darlings in corp leadership are not the CEOs that treat employees or customers well, it is the CEOs that have made the most profits.
Corporations are a wonderful economic engine, but the power they have needs stemmed.
posted on January 3, 2002 05:12:44 PM newDeSquirrel, you are certainly entitled to your option, but I must comment on your remarks (since you seem to be asking me questions).
"So in other words great big huge businesses have now become just like little mom and pop businesses."
Actually, Mom and Pop businesses tend to be a better at service and customer care than corporations ever have. While many eBay type businesses have had a steep learning curve in this area, traditional brick & mortar Mom & Pop businesses go the extra mile to be sure you're satisfied.
"Plus think about the thousands of poor starving Mexicans that now have real jobs and can feed their families and can help lift their fellows out of poverty."
While you may believe that anyone who makes more money than you as an employee is unfit to receive those wages and benefits, the Mexicans are hardly making out! If Mexico created and enforced a Minimum Wage law that was equal to our Federal laws in that reguard, then you could make that claim. With the average Mexican worker earning so little that it takes a month's salary to purchase just one pair of blue jeans that they sweat over 12 hours a day doesn't seem to be an economic boom on anyone's scale.
Hi REAMOND!
"Who survives economic downturns ? Not the corp that treats its customers or employees well, it is the corp that maximizes profits for the shareholders."
That is precisely the so-called 'corporate wisdom' of the twenty-first century that I am bashing! Instead of dumping employees in an ever shrinking marketplace in order to sagging bolster profit margins to please the stockholders, how about kissing customer's derrieres instead? You know, with all of the corporate arrogance these days, the idea that if you treat customers better than your competitors actually has some creditability. By going the way that corporations are nowadays, they are dooming themselves to disaster. The solution is to employ as many people as possible during a recession or depression, not get rid of them. And if you need to make more money as a corp because of that, then why not actually compete for customers instead of misusing them and abusing them?
Also, that corps have way too much influence in Washington is a bygone fact so hard that not many have any willpower left to protest. The corporate state has arrived and only the stockholders get to vote in it. The rest of us are resigned to digital slavery, being reduced to mere numbers, polls, and statistics.
posted on January 3, 2002 10:32:55 PM new
The old chat about the huge tyrant corporations just gets a little old.
The downsizing comes in industries which grew in the days of little competition when things were riding high. Now in the new global marketplace where competition is everywhere a company looks around and has to be more competitive.
In today's world, even the most generous CEO cannot afford to pay $60k (100K w benefits) to somebody to work putting on left side door handles 6 hrs a day.
When John Doe hires Joe the sweep boy to help out in the store and times get tough, good old John doesn't have Mary serve soup 2 days a week, he fires the sweep boy. Always been that way, always will.
Companies do everything for "stockholders" (also known as you and me) because these are the people that provide money to test and build new ideas and products and make a company grow.
posted on January 3, 2002 11:05:16 PM new"even the most generous CEO cannot afford to pay $60k (100K w benefits) to somebody to work putting on left side door handles 6 hrs a day"
Though I doubt that there are any line workers who fit your tired model of horror, desquirrel, the CEOs certainly CAN afford to pay that way, but don't. Instead they bleed off the profits in humungous salaries and benefits for themselves and in creating conglomerates of other corporations doing the same thing.
Don't think so? The books for Ford motor company will certainly reflect that they pay workers and with benefits while still showing great profits. If that were not the case they could not operate long enough to embroil themselves in the widespread bndoggles that result in what you see in the paper--"Uh Oh, Ford is needing a bailout". They don't need a bailout because their product costs too much to make, they need it because the monies gained are not reinvested in the business-in the "new ideas" that you want them to have. No, they're put into the general market at risks which no levelheaded person would take in the hope of increasing the ability to keep doing anything but make cars.
There are good examples of well found and profitable businesses which were taken over by their employees during one or another boondoggle and turned into profitmaking businesses like what the corporate mogels always claimed they were. Subaru of America is an excellent example of that. So are south Bend Machine tools, and Harley Davidson. They are sound businesses which do not brook the bleedoff of their profits to the whim of uncaring corporate model entrepenuers. Oh, and why heck, they might have a beaner or two on the books as well.
posted on January 4, 2002 12:44:15 PM new
My husband has worked for a factory (GM) for 25 years. We have been all but spat upon because of our 'blessings' of income and opportunity and benefits. I'm more than a little sick of hearing it. You've really got to walk 5 miles in his shoes before you start shuffling out that crap.
As he is 5 years away from retiring, we can look forward to the plant here that has spun off from GM to a Delphi plant, being at risk of closing, (secretly) and he loses everything (they have done that before if you'll remember). He was diagnosed recently (he's 46 years old) with severe lower back damage (from working conditions) and the beginning of lung disease (have you ever tried to breath the air in a factory?). Of all the people I know who have retired from this plant in Ohio, 80 percent have died within 2 years, from work-related disease and injury. He wears all safety equipment and suffers hearing loss and looks 15 years older than he really is. He has a constant coating of petroleum-based liquids and metal-shavings on and in his skin, that also affects his health. His hands look like they've been cut and beaten for 25 years. Everything the unions worked hard to provide for employees 50 years ago has slowly been chipped at and taken away. And those employees in Mexico...the women are sometimes murdered on their walk home through a field, so that others can take the job opening their death creates.
Whew...factory work isn't for wimps!
"Your playing small doesn't serve the world...There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you." ~Nelson Mandela
posted on January 4, 2002 01:34:43 PM new
The multiples between what the highest paid individual in a corp and the lowest paid full time employee in a corp are at all time highs.
It is interesting that we can make an argument about a $100,000 a year assembly line worker's wages but say nothing about a CEO making $100 or $400 million a year.
Do you really think the CEO works that much harder ? If you do you haven't been around many CEOs.
Who is in better shape if he/she gets laid off, the CEO or the line worker ?
Being "annointed" CEO of a major corp not only means an outrageous salary and benefits, it also allows that the wealth accumlated means that your family will be wealthy for generations to come with a little planning.
So if the CEO makes the corp a lot of money through his/her guidance then perhaps they should be paid these obscene amounts ? Well explain why CEOs that lost huge amounts of money for corps also walk away millionaires, and the employees walk away broke and no income.
posted on January 4, 2002 01:35:02 PM new
Those last three entries don't need my help!
<br />
<br />ABOUT customer abuse. Today, my mom gets a letter from her bank. As of the first, they will now charge a $10 fee for withdrawing money from any of her accounts. That means, should she take money out of her savings account or cash from her checking account, she'll get charged a $10 fee! Who the hell ever heard of such a ridiculous thing?? But, then again, banks can sell your medical history to anyone who wants to pay for it -- unless you tell them IN WRITING to not do that! Imagine the outrage that this is, and some folks will tell you that "It's OK" and "This is A-M-E-R-I-C-A, Bub!"
<br />
<br />I just installed Windows 2000 Server (5-client) Academic Version ($499) on my pc to learn about Servers and to host my own web content. The first thing that I learned is that Microcrap charges $295 per telephone call to help you out. Then, My Norton System Works that I recently purchased won't install on it because its a Server software and I can buy Anti-Virus protection starting at 10 units at $30 apiece! Then, my HP Dual-Scan scanner would not install properly on the Server as the Update didn't work. To call up for some help from HP, it's only $25 for the telephone call, or $10 for a Win2000 Install Disk that may or may not work! I could go on and on! It's ABUSE ... plain and simple!
<br />
<br />So, it's not just the traditional bashing of Americans who work that is going on in H*U*G*E ways, but also the nastiest scams and abuses of Customers that is astronomical arrogance! And all because if their shitty policies get them into financial trouble, there's always someone there to bail them out by the BILLIONS of Taxpayer Dollars! It's a No-Loose situation for the Very Few.
<br />
<br /><br />
[ edited by Borillar on Jan 4, 2002 01:35 PM ]
posted on January 4, 2002 01:52:40 PM new
The software woes you're describing are nothing compared to what is coming.
MS is going to a full internet interactive model. Software will be utilized through the internet and you pay fees for its use on a continuing basis.
There will be no more purchase or ownership of software. We will be renters of the software that runs our machines, at least until a competitor arises, maybe Linux.
posted on January 4, 2002 04:53:17 PM new
A sigle example that was an eye opener for me:
As some of you know, I'm retired from the postal service with 25 years. I startd as an auto mechanic, went through three suprvisoral positions and took an early out offered while I ws in the labor relations office. In 1990 we received a new Ford Crown Victoria slated to be added to our administrative fleet. I took delivery of the car right of the train from Detroit. The window sticker was on it--the 'factory invoice' that dealers tell you is their cost for the car. There was/is a procedure to follow with new vehicles to log them into the dataases and assign them a postal vehicle nmber. The certificate of origin, the bill of lading, and the actual cost of the vehicle as billed to the postal service are referenced and inputed to the postal systems. I did that.
The cost on the window sticker--the same cost you see when you visit a dealership, was $22,000 and change. The postal service paid $11,500 for that car. It meant to me that if I bought the very same car at so and so Ford I would pay very nearly $10,000 over the actual cost of the vehicle with a reasonable profit put in.
The postal service did not get any subsidy from Ford; the tax coffers did not help pay for the car. there are no factors which would explain away even part of the difference I've described. What I believe it means is that Ford could remain solvent as a successful enterprise charging that $11K figure even with pay and benefits and all other related overhead if they were simply a company in business making cars.
I don't get your point. Are you trying to say you get a better deal buying direct from a manufacturer in multi-thousand lots instead of a single purchase from a dealer?
Borillar
Your rant about buying W2K server is the silliest thing I've read today. Let's see. You purchase an item designed for IT professionals that you know absolutely nothing about. Then you buy the academic version (ie: no support from MS). Then you figure out that server software works differently than desktop. If you had purchased the retail version you would have had 3 calls to MS (though I'm sure they'd LOVE getting these calls). Server based software is much more complicated and sold in tiny volumes compared to desktop. It is not someone else's fault if you don't know what you're doing.
I would tell your mother to switch banks right away.
posted on January 5, 2002 12:31:21 AM new
desquirrel,
"a better deal"
Get real, this is no better deal 'fleet sale' arrangement; in fact the USPS at the time bought very few Ford products and the national contracts were with GM. The LLV purchase is administered through GM and at the time all new purchases of service vehicles, general admin, and special use vehicles were GM. This instead was a simple exposition of the amount of pure profit there is for Ford in a single item. It was an instance in which a district level manager, the highest one in fact, was allowed to pick his own car. Had he been of the sort that were in Chicago at the time he could as well have picked a Lincoln. This was a nice car for the boss, fully optioned, and that's why I was involved with it at all. Normally I'd have sent someone to take care of it, but it was to my advantage that he got it in good shape without glitches. Had I not involved myself I'd probably never have seen the paper on it that I saw.
posted on January 5, 2002 12:44:50 PM newDeSquirrel:
Although I have a simple AA degree in electronics, all of the computer knowledge that I have - that I make a good living on, was done by purchasing the programs and learning how to use them. I am not complaining about the Server software; but rather, use it as an example of what is wrong with customer support these days. Whether MS charges me $295 per call or $500 for three telephone calls is outrageous!
And I am learning quickly on my own, thank you! And the first thing that I can see is that it is entirely and unecessarily complicated. With Broadband connections to the Internet, there is absolutely no reason why a simple private web server capable of handling a single account is not part and parcel with the operating system or as a part of MS Office. The concept that you use your own pc to host your own web content can be as easy as one-two-three is real; however, the current system in place is built for professional ISPs to host thousands of accounts. Its either too much or none at all. And Bill Gates brags about innovation and keeping up with the times?? LOL!
I've had problems with other MS products as well. And I've paid full retail AND got damned little help in return for their overly complicated and complex programs. For instance, MS Access is a great example of just what's wrong with MS. If you want to use their wizards to create simple addess and telephonebook-style databases, then it's a breeze. But if you want to use any of the really neat features of Access -- which is why you bought it to begin with, then the learning curve is so steep that it might as well be verticle for the beginner. And MS couldn't care less to make it as easy as it can be. Don't want to pay a Pro $250/hour to desin your database? Go to college for 2 years instead! That's complete nonsense!
Then how about Radio Shack? Many years ago, there was a short amount of time that Radio Shack actually wanted to produce quality stereo products and to compete in the middle to high-end marketplace. My stereo gear dates back from those heady days. Finally, my three-head tape deck gave up the ghost on quality and I sent it in for repairs. I got charged $40 for labor and $9.57 for a rubber band and nothing got fixed! (After this post, I'm on my way back to RS to send it in again -- grrrr) Not only was the origional problem not fixed: can't FF or Play, it does Play but at a 1/3 reduced speed! And it can't FF once you get half-way through ANY tape. Not only that, the idiot didn't put the casing back together right and it wiggles when you pick it up.
Now, if this was just one complaint about one product one time, I wouldn't be here talking about it. Fact is, I've decided to convert everything non-DVD/CD to DVD or CD. I've taken in a bunch of stuff and it ALL has to go back in today! They screwed up each piece that I sent in and charged me hundreds of dollars for NOTHING! Now THAT'S ABUSE!!
I will suggest to my mom that she move her account. But she is a cancer survivor who is not likely to see another year unless she is very lucky indeed! She has given up and will not likely bother with it, preferring to suffer one last indignity before she meets her maker. Who speaks out for her and all of the other members of the bank? (KRS: It's Washington Mutual in the Fred Myers shopping centers) I wonder how many others also feel so powerless?
posted on January 5, 2002 01:43:59 PM new
Borillar
Server OS is not "unnecessarily complicated". A server requires many people to access file and not have their requests "collide" or cause problems with other simultaneous users. You can not do your own web hosting unless you have a true server AND a dedicated internet connection with assigned net addresses. You cannot host a web site using a cable modem or DSL because you are on a shared network and do not have an on-net address. The fine print in your ISP agreement even prohibits you from operating a web site. Most agreements even forbid making VPN connections to your workplace, but these are technically possible and freq. done.
Sorry to hear of your mother's illness but the only leverage people have when presented with uncompetitive business practices is to walk away. A vendor can push till he "sees what the traffic will bear". Unless this is a commercial bank trying to get rid of personal accounts, it's the only thing you can do.
The world today is very much different than 20 yrs ago, "things" are cheap and "people" are expensive. Sophisticated technology is mass produced for incredibly low cost and presented to you. Now when that DVD player breaks, somebody has to sit there and take it apart. If that person has to make a wage to support a family plus be paid medical, vacation, and other benefits, and the company has to pay for the test equipment and overhead just how much is it going to cost to fix that $180 DVD player? When they tell you a $100 or $120, most people will refuse and buy another.
And you know the funniest thing??? Most people on this board who wouldn't pay to get that DVD player repaired would leap to the barricades if the manufacturer closed the local plant.
posted on January 5, 2002 03:43:14 PM new
DeSquirrel:
I've had a nice chat with ATT Broadband about Servers. They told me that I could run a private web server on my account. There was some other application for servers that is not allowed. I do have a dynamic IP versus a static IP, but I am looking into what can be done about it this week.
The concept of hosting your own web content on your own home computer is perfectly reasonable. For instance, I have several gigabytes of content on another computer that I have that I am currently sharing over the Morpheus P2P file sharing network (I share free-to-distribute books in various formats). There is no great leap in technology between that P2P network of several million and actually hosting my own Internet web content, except that some folks think that there should be jobs for professionals and the cut the average guy out. Therefore, I see noreason why simple, private web hosting is not the way of the future.
As far as being fortunate to have such grand technology at such a low price makes me want to choke! This is not on topic, but I'll plow through anyway. The current level of technology is based upon 1970's technology that never really got updated. For instance, take CDs. They have either 74 minutes or now, 80- minutes of playing time. Yet, the patent holders have been mass producing mini CDs - the kind that you can purchase single songs on, with a capacity for over 30 hours of sight and sound since the mid 1980s. And in a practical sense, the capacity of a standard CD is well over 100 years of sight and sound data per CD, alth9ough we have yet to see it on the common marketplace. Not that there isn't a demand for it.
Then, how about the solid-state memory chip? It is the size of a matchbox and holds over 1 gigabyte of digital data. Since it is neither mechinical (no moving parts), not a magnetic media to wear out, and does not need physical imprinting as CDs and DVDs do, it is fully electronically recordable and eraseable. Wouldn't you want one? Why bother with CDs and slow transfer devices and tape drives when this handy and small item can fit all of you portable data needs. And when did they develope this neat matchbox-sized 1 gigabyte solid-state ememory chip for the PC? The made it in 1979! That's right: 1979! What happened was that the music and movie recording industry stepped in and threatened to sue the patentholders into non-existance if they released it, so instead, we go 8-inch and 5-1/4 floppies that destroyed themseves at every chance they had. [where did I see this item? It was a full-article in an Omni magazine issue back in Spring of 1979. Unfortunately, I no longer have that issue.]
No, technology stopped in the mid-1970s and we've been jerked around ever since.
Did you know that Intel has been working on the 128-bit Microprocessor for the personal computer since 1986? Would you be surprized to know that it has long since been developed, but will not be released until the next decade -- if they can stretch it out that far? In fact, when the first 64-bit processors were issued by Intel, they had a one megabyte cache which made your machine S-C-R-E-A-M with power! But, just as quickly, they decided to parcel it out and hobbled the cache to a mere 128kb, making it slower than a 32-bit P-III/1,000MHz? Only this summer are they planning on re-releasing it with a two megabyte cache!
posted on January 5, 2002 08:29:49 PM new
Borillar
I think the ATT rep misunderstood you. I'm thinking HE's thinking you want to have your own web page, which most ISP's allow with some restrictions as to size, etc. A web server is a completely different animal altogether.
What is you aversion to spending the $20/mo for web hosting?? You still have to build your own web site and have the use of the ISP 's marketing tools and other software which would cost you thousands.
What do you do with regard to epublishing? I do a web site (www.rattle.com) and design the book layouts and covers for a friend of mine. We were thinking about distributing back issues electronically.
You are confusing the dynamics of the marketplace with grand conspiracies. CD's overwhelmed vinyl disks because they don't go bad, were competative in price, and sounded better than you can hear. The public embraced them and the race was on. Within 2 or 3 years it was "vinyl what?". The comparative product does not exit today. When the public is approached with: look this sounds BETTER than CD and you can put a year's worth of songs on it and it will only cost you $500 and maybe a couple of years before any software is available. The average person knows he can't hear the full audio capabilities of a CD and says I'll pass. You have to have a need, then a demand, before you can fill it. Solid state memory is available and has been available for years for those application where it is beneficial (hand held computers, cameras, etc). The average person does not need to replace a hard drive with a chip and on the showroom floor would not pay the price for it. When the price of mfg solid state memory drops below the cost of hard drives, hard drives will disapper almost overnight. 128 bit processors have been around a long time but unless you have an OS using them (Unix, Be) they are useless to the general public.
The industry is cranking out HDTV's like crazy trying to present this new, expensive technology to the public. Now if only somebody will buy them.
When presented with new technology, a few crazy nuts spend the bucks for the newest thing out (like the people spending $2000 now for DVD recorders to replace their $150 VCRs). When manufacturers gear up and prices drop the public embraces it if it benefits them to do so. DIMMS and DDR memory were very expensive and only overclockers used them. Now the price has dropped so even the lamest computers have DDR.
posted on January 5, 2002 08:58:20 PM new
here's truth in what both of you are saying. On the one hand, though the technology exists to pack years of music onto existing media, the music industry fights tooth and nail to prevent it because, if they had their way, a return to consumers paying the high price for single issue cuts like the 45 rpm records of old would butter their read. Their individual proprietary rewards would be nearly impossible to assure while still offering product at affordable prices. The HDTV issue is the opposite case. The technology is there, the public would prefer to have it, but the transmission companies can't build enough financial stability to take the steps needed to impliment it with the relatively low potential for return on investments. The Japanese have had HDTV for near 20 years because their transmission systems were built to handle it.
These are nut and bolt examples though, and have little to do with the objectionable practices of corporate America as had been the topic of the thread.
posted on January 9, 2002 01:20:30 PM new
The real corporate fantasy is having all items made in China, or any country with cheaper labor, paying US workers minimum wage, and charge high prices for the stuff. You then become dependant on the corporation. Just like the old days when the coal mine owned the house you lived in, and sold you groceries, and clothes. You basically worked for nothing.
posted on January 9, 2002 03:25:00 PM new
That's why I would never take a job making a commodity item. They teach the "evolution" of economies as moving from agrarian to manufacturing to eventually services. In a world marketplace it is not so much "how much I gotta get" as it is "how much is it worth".
In such a worldwide market manufacturing shifts to the location of cheap labor. The funny thing is most of the whiners on this thread probably drive across town to save a quarter and blame the gummit when the local plant closes.
posted on January 9, 2002 04:17:06 PM newI just installed Windows 2000 Server (5-client) Academic Version ($499) on my pc to learn about Servers and to host my own web content.
What's wrong with wiping the hard-drive and installing GNU/Linux for free?
LAMP ...
Linux Apache MySQL Perl/Python/PHP
along with Exim or SendMail.
If I'm able to set up a system like this anyone can.
(I'm only serving pages to myself on a Debian GNU/Linux box ... for html testing)
Same exact set-up as a majority of servers out there though ...
posted on January 9, 2002 08:50:13 PM new
artsupplies, yes. I've got a second 30 meg drive installed to start the same thing. Been pretty busy lately and it's on the back burner.
posted on January 10, 2002 08:34:10 AM newI've got a second 30 meg drive installed to start the same thing...
I'm barely past newbie stage with this kind of system administration on a linux machine but the biggest reward for me is how much more de-mistifying the whole "www" thing gets the more I learn.
With open source software there is a huge amount of information/help out on the web. No charge...
posted on January 10, 2002 09:33:40 AM new
On 5 January 1914
The Ford Motor Company raised its basic wage from $2.40 for a nine hour day to $5.00 for an eight hour day.
posted on January 10, 2002 10:10:10 AM new"What's wrong with wiping the hard-drive and installing GNU/Linux for free?"
Because Microsoft Office doesn't run on Linux - yet.
You see, the only way for me to get larger accounts - ones that pay out monthly services, is for me to host their web sites. While I can do as I've been doing - working with their existing web site providers, when I get a prospective customer that wants me to marry a database program to their web site in order to track items and such; I have to have Office (Access) on the same machine as the Web Server. Then, custoemrs wants MS extentions plain and simple and using Front Page directly at the web server is easiest. I hate to go this way because I am not fond of programming - Linux is more for that crowd anyway, I understand.
DeSquirrel:"The funny thing is most of the whiners on this thread ..."
Really? I hadn't noticed anyone being a whiner on this thread. Thank goodness that you caught onto it! Please tell us who they are and we'll all band together to deal with them. Soonest.
posted on January 10, 2002 10:25:38 AM new
You know, it's pretty easy to be an advocate of Globalization. It's darned aeasy right up to the point where you lose your job and can't get another one. You family goes hungry, you end up selling off your home and car, you go destitute. It's about that time that you realize that maybe Globalization is like Multi-Level Marketing schemes: it's great for the originators and some of the top-level folks: for the rest of the program, it's Blood, Sweat, and Tears and not much reward or none at all.
Don't get me wrong: I'd love to see One World. I'd like there to be one language, one law, one currency. Not only would the world economy boom to unimagnable heights by this, but also the elevation of all people in the world would be made possible IMHO.
On the other hand, I am NOT a fan of Globalization! When I pay taxes to my government from my hardearned wages and my company decides to move my job overseas, the system is rigged so that not only does my employer get tax money for setting up new jobs overseas, but it also pays them tax dollars to train the low-cost labor as well! With such incentives, why would any large corporation want to keep their jobs in the USA? If corporations had to pay their own way to displacing American workers, then it might not be such a gold rush as it is today. Eventually, we'll all be working at McDonalds and who will be buying things then?
I believe that while public schools should teach kids how to become great cashiers at McDonalds, it ought to be teaching them how to be in business for themselves; how to start them, how to work them, how to get rich at it. I would like to see every American with a Million Dollars in the bank and then they receive the interest each year as part of their income. With business, it's that old saw about teaching the man to fish.
