SEOUL, South Korea, Dec. 24 — North Korea warned today of an "uncontrollable catastrophe" unless the United States agrees to a negotiated solution to a tense standoff over its nuclear energy and weapons programs.
The statement, made amid mounting tensions with the United States, came as a stiff pre-emptive rebuff to a conciliation-minded newly elected president in South Korea, and a warning to other countries that their efforts to mediate the crisis will be futile.
"There is no need for any third party to meddle in the nuclear issue on the peninsula," said North Korea's ruling-party newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun. Referring to the North Korean government by its Korean initials, the paper said: "The issue should be settled between the DPRK and the U.S., the parties responsible for it. If the U.S. persistently tries to internationalize the pending issue between the DPRK and the U.S. in a bid to flee from its responsibility, it will push the situation to an uncontrollable catastrophe."
The North Korean defense minister, Kim Il Chol, went further, warning of "merciless punishment" to the United States if it pursued a confrontational approach to the emerging nuclear crisis.
posted on December 25, 2002 09:37:35 PM new
It's an inevitable response. When NK announced their "secret" of having nuclear capabilities, I think that was what the whole idea was aimed at.
There's all this talk lately about how the U.S. can protect itself from incoming missiles and I think it's North Korea they're worried about, not Iraq.
posted on December 26, 2002 06:09:17 AM new
The problem of Iraq pales in comparison to this. Is North Korea controlled by China and Russia and if so what is their position in this situation?
North Korea's continuing progress in missile development and its aggressive missile marketing internationally is most noteworthy-as former CIA Director Jim Woolsey remarked of North Korean missile marketing, "it is willing to sell to any country with the cash to pay."
The most recent and dramatic developments concerning missile proliferation focus on North Korea. For example, in May 1993 North Korea flight-tested the 10001300 km-range, mobile Nodong-1. More recently, it reportedly flight-tested a missile, possibly the Nodong-1 - to 1500 km. The Nodong-1 is believed to be capable of carrying nuclear, biological or chemical payloads, and could be deployed by 1996. The deployment of this missile in North Korea, Iran and Libya would place at risk much of Japan, Israel, and U.S. bases and European capitals in the Mediterranean area.
BTW...there are 40,000 American troops between North and South Korea.
Looks like Korea is in a postion to get whatever they want.
" Some progress has been made between the North Koreans and both Japan and South Korea in recent months, but similar efforts by President Clinton terminated with his administration."
North Korea Calls Bush 'Kingpin of Terrorism'
February 23, 2002
By REUTERS
Filed at 7:29 a.m. ET
SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea, in its latest rhetorical roasting for the U.S. president, described George W. Bush on Saturday as a "typical rogue and a kingpin of terrorism" who visited South Korea this week just to review plans for war.
During his 40-hour visit to the South, Bush renewed an unconditional U.S. offer for talks with Pyongyang, but also criticized a lack of food and freedom in the North, saying the burden of proof was on North Korean leader Kim Jong-il to change.
posted on December 26, 2002 09:11:20 AM new
By warned, you may mean threaten. I think the United States has "warned and terrorized" itself into a corner. Every country but England, and Australia believes that George's ass should be kicked.
The Associated Press As concern rose Monday over North Korea's announcement that it had resumed its nuclear weapons program, a top Russian diplomat warned the United States that putting the country under pressure could aggravate the tensions.
"It is counterproductive and dangerous to blackmail North Korea, with its grave economic position," Deputy Foreign Minister Georgy Mamedov was quoted as saying in an interview with the newspaper Vremya Novostei.
Nuclear Power Minister Alexander Rumyantsev on Monday confirmed that North Korea had started relaunching its nuclear program and expressed regret over the decision, Itar-Tass reported.
"I know that North Korea has begun the action to unfurl its nuclear programs," Rumyantsev was quoted as saying, and said that the UN nuclear watchdog "has not given a proper assessment to this fact as yet."
Rumyantsev, speaking to Russian reporters during a trip to Iran, said he did not have details about North Korea's move, the report said.
Mamedov said in the interview that the Kremlin shares the United States' concerns about North Korea's nuclear weapons program. "The absence of nuclear weapons on the Korean Peninsula is in our common interest," he said.
But he criticized Washington for taking a bellicose approach to North Korea, as well as to Iraq and Iran, the three countries that U.S. President George W. Bush has termed the "axis of evil."
Russia and Iran are cooperating in atomic energy projects, which critics have said could prefigure Iran developing nuclear weapons.
However, Mamedov said that "Russia is ready to make any guarantee, cooperate with the International Atomic Energy Agency and work with Iran to see that used nuclear fuel is returned and cannot be used for the production of nuclear weapons components even in secrecy."
posted on December 26, 2002 09:28:46 AM new
LOL @ US pressure is un-helpful. Surely you're kidding. You think we don't have a right to voice our stance on NK going against an agreement made to the UN? We have a 'right' to do whatever we wish, when anything we feel will be a threat to our country happens.
Reamond - If you're still here....
I heard someone speaking to the issue of why this isn't as urgent a problem, at this time, as some think it us [NK making their announcement]. Wish I could remember who it was, but can say almost with certainty that it was a retired military higher-up. His reasoning was that NK has little electricity and probably won't be capable of making these until that issue is dealth with. Do you concur with the lack of electricity problem? He stated that when viewing NK via satelites at night, there are no lights showing in the sky. While SK is lit up like the rest of the world.
Any aid we are giving should be stopped immediately, IMO.
posted on December 26, 2002 10:46:18 AM new
Helen - Once again, I'll ask you to show me where I ever said that. You read what you want into each of my posts. Go harass someone else. I'm in a great mood today.
posted on December 26, 2002 10:52:27 AM new
Linda's quote
I heard someone speaking to the issue of why this isn't as urgent a problem, at this time, as some think it us
end quote
Go back to your corner, Linda and wave your flag or something.
posted on December 26, 2002 12:27:33 PM new
I remember posting here several months ago that Bush would soon put us into the position of "us against the world" in which we would lose any allies we have. The US shouldn't be dictating to other countries how they should run their own affairs. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 26, 2002 12:32:13 PM new
bunni - I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts of how Bush is responsible for NK not living up to an agreement formed while Clinton was in office.
posted on December 26, 2002 12:48:40 PM new
The North Korean nuclear issue is nothing new. Clinton agreed to pay them what amounted to blackmail money for them to "stop" their nuclear program, which they did not, but they took all the money/aide we could send.
NK can not deliver a bomb to the US and it is doubtful they could put a bomb together themselves. That is why the problem isn't urgent. However, they are more than willing to cooperate with others that have the money to purchase the resources to make bombs and develop a delivery system - or just deliver the nuclear fuel to terrorists.
It is time to roll over NK and put a stop to the madness. It looks as though China is coming to the same conclusion.
We will do to NK exactly what China will agree to. China has more to fear from NK than we do, as do SK, Japan, and the rest of the region.
The threats from NK are are red herring. They are making the threats because the country is starving and freezing to death and desperately need the fuel and food supply shipments restored. The country is very near collapse and Russia and China have little to offer NK.
posted on December 26, 2002 12:49:28 PM new
It seems we live under a double standard: it is quite alright for us to break or ignore UN resolutions, but a bozo no-no for any other nation. We seem to have an "how dare they" attitude toward the UN if they thwart us in any way, but think that we have some god-given right to tell others how they must live. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 26, 2002 12:54:34 PM new
You are so right Helen. NK is much more of a threat than Iraq will ever be. I don't buy for a minute that Bush knew nothing about NK/nuclear capabilities. It's been discussed ad infinitum on the internet for a couple of years now. It makes you wonder why nothing's been done and why they all acted so surprised at their announcement... what a farce!
Hi to Linda & bunni... hope you're both OK after yesterday!!
posted on December 26, 2002 12:55:32 PM new
From what the news says...N.K. is re-activating, old nuke missles.They are apt to have a nuke accident, or blow themselves up.(and a few other Countrys)
posted on December 26, 2002 01:06:35 PM new
Reamond - Thanks...that's pretty much the same way I have taken what I've read.
Bunni - I hear what you're saying about when we [under all administrations] abide by...agree to...and then sometimes don't follow....and, imo, that changes with each administration. Agreed there.
But I really have trouble understanding anyone who doesn't agree that when any threat is posed to the US, or anything that is seen/judged to be a future threat that they think we don't have a 'right' to do what's in our best interest. IE: Nations who don't now have WMD capabilities working towards acquiring/building them. I also am of the opinion that when Nations have agreed as a whole that it would be a threat to our entire world that their efforts must be stopped.
I don't believe you are saying [are you?] that any country should be allowed to obtain WMD capabilities. Or is that your stance?
posted on December 26, 2002 01:20:15 PM new
Hi KD - hope you're both OK after yesterday. Well...I think I'm okay Doing the 5th dishwasher full of dishes now..with one more to go. But it was wonderful.
Also KD, Reamond most certainly could explain better than I why the US thought NK was doing as they had agreed to. I've read where we were watching for them to be developing one sort of fuel source, one needed to build these. While they in fact were using another. And I believe the 'other source' was difficult to view from satellites.
posted on December 26, 2002 01:22:00 PM new
Iraq and NK are somewhat two sides of the same coin when it comes to threats to their neighbors.
However, taking out Hussein will assure oil supplies. Once that is done, the US can clean up problems in the whole Persian Gulf region. We get our oil cut off, and the stakes rise dramatically. And before anyone says that "we don't get much of our oil from the Persian Gulf"- oil is a world wide commodity, if ANY source is cut off, the less supply means that some user will be trying to replace that oil from the market.
NK is a much more isolated problem for the time being. NK can be contained much easier than Iraq. Remember, NK is starving and freezing to death. It is doubtful that NK could even move its army right now. But NK will have to be dealt with sooner or later.
posted on December 26, 2002 01:59:06 PM new
Hi Junquemama! If NK had an 'accident' and blew itself up, nobody would care.
Hey, don't sell yourself short Linda. I think you explain things just fine! I'm sorry about all the dishes... who was the jerk that invented them anyway???
Thanks Reamond! Good explanation. The thing I have difficulty with is what good is the U.N. if countries just do what they want regardless?
posted on December 26, 2002 02:56:15 PM new
Hi K.D, I would venture quite a few would care,There would be a massive fall out.Too bad N.K isnt more isolated.
posted on December 26, 2002 03:01:57 PM new
LOL! This was a good idea for the thread topic, Helen! So many angles to consider, so many Machiavellian notions to get the right answers! And certainly, the comments regarding Bush are hilarious!
OK, my insight to all of this as follows:
I grew up in Asia as an American and I am somewhat familiar with their ways of thinking.
The first point that you should know is that the North Koreans have this whole thing planned to a tee and it is all thought out from beginning to endgame. Whether we are still playing the same game that started from N. Korea's announcement last summer about their illicit weapon's program or from some earlier starting event it is impossible for us to know.
Rest assured that the Chinese and the Russians are involved as well, but only as it affects them: this is Korea's Game to play. (Although they, too, are playing their own Game around N. Korea's)
I also doubt that a Game of this scope was invented AFTER Bush took office. It was likely thought up several years ago when N. Korea first admitted to that they were starving and reached out for reconciliation to the West. No doubt, the election seemed to favor Gore and their plans were all laid out for him to be President. One can only imagine the turmoil that they had when the Supreme Court overstepped it's judicial authority and appointed Bush as President.
I think that they must have drawn straws the oriental way and China got to be the one to see what kind of a leader that they were dealing with. So they got their planes to surround a spy plane and forced it to land, although I am sure that the accident that killed the Chinese fighter pilot was not a part of it.
It was the testing of Bush that the entire world waited to see what sort of a person that he was. Boy, did they ever humiliate him, but good! If it had been Clinton or Gore, the Chinese would have quietly been given trading concessions and millions of dollars behind closed doors in order to quietly recover the plane and it's crew. But that isn't what happened with Bush. Funny how everyone seems to forget about that significant testing incident.
Now they know what sort of a person that these people in Washington are: unpolished, rough, naive, stupid, bullying, selfish, unilateral, blundering, and unsophisticated cowards with no honor. Gone are the slick politics and the respect that Washington had been used to receiving. Now it was time to play the North Korean Nuclear Program Card.
They waited for just the right moment for Bush to be in the most awkward position as possible with Iraq: with one foot in deep and one foot still outside the hole. With Bush just clenching his muscles to go leap into the hole altogether, the Card was played and that threw him off-balance, as expected.
Now they want something. They want something in return for folding their Hand. They are insulting Bush in order to get him to ante up. But Bush, remembering his humiliation at the hands of the Chinese not so long ago, is busy reading his Hungry Caterpillar book at the card table. Hence, the insults: Ante Up!
What do they want? I think that they want one-Korea and the United States completely GONE out of South Korea. That is their first End Goal. You can never tell what's on the table next with them, as the Game never, ever ends until one player is completely dead.
posted on December 26, 2002 03:41:18 PM newLindaK:I really have trouble understanding anyone who doesn't agree that when any threat is posed to the US, or anything that is seen/judged to be a future threat that they think we don't have a 'right' to do what's in our best interest. IE: Nations who don't now have WMD capabilities working towards acquiring/building them. I also am of the opinion that when Nations have agreed as a whole that it would be a threat to our entire world that their efforts must be stopped.
I don't believe you are saying [are you?] that any country should be allowed to obtain WMD capabilities. Or is that your stance?
My stance is that no one--including us--should have WMD capabilities. And it is sheer hypocracy that somehow we need to have nuclear weapons for our military/administration to feel secure...but heaven forbid *other* countries have them...
As for the rest--bullying other countries because of what they *might* do in the future is not the way to go. Where is it going to stop? What country will Bush & Cronies target next when they've had their way with Iraq & North Korea. What country will suddenly be named as part of the "Axis of Evil?" Because you know it won't stop. 9-11 was the "making" of Bush, and war is the only way he keeps the popularity he gained there. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 26, 2002 04:08:45 PM new
kraftdinner...
And thanks for your insight, Borillar.
The possibility that this was a shrewdly planned operation along with a wink and a not from China and or Russia is a generally accepted idea. I'm surprised of the naivette that is being stated in this thread and the deference that is still being shown to George Bush. North Korea is astute enought to recognize an idiot and call him a "politically backward child".
By the way, Reamond, I know the history of this issue. Otherwise I would not have started the thread. I don't believe that you have the facts necessary to determine the state of nuclear development in Korea or the ability to determine that the problem is not "urgent". The degree of urgency will be determined by how our "politically backward child" decides to handle the problem.
Reamond, you say, "NK can be contained much easier than Iraq". Well that makes no sense at all. With Korea, we are dealing with a country that DOES have weapons of mass destruction - unlike Iraq. Korea is very wisely taking advantage of the mess in which George has led this country and there they are, right between China and Russia, holding some significant cards.
Now, heaven help us, Rumsfeld has just warned North Korea that we can win two wars at the same time.
posted on December 26, 2002 04:26:44 PM new
Bunni - Thanks. I'd agree that in a 'perfect' world WMD would/could all be eliminated. But we don't live in a perfect world as you know. And I wouldn't believe any president [democrat or republican] would agree to give up our WMD. How could we ever trust that someone wouldn't be holding out. I don't see a way we could ever be sure.
On the when will this end subject - it probably never will. Our country has been changed after 9-11. As long as there are those who openly threaten our way of life, I believe most Americans will support whichever president is in office to defend our country. A candidate would most likely not be elected if he/she were against using our military and resourses to protect our nation. Like say in these times if Carter were running.
I'm not one who believes we should sit back and wait until another attack is possible. I believe in eliminating a threat before it has more force.
And you may very well be right, in that President Bush has the support he has because of the threats we face. I'm glad of that. I'm glad we have a sitting president who is interested in working at ridding the terrorists from the planet. Just to bad, IMO, that they aren't all in one place and could be dealt with all at once. And that's the reason he has the support from many on the other side of the aisle. They too feel a lot of this is necessary.
I also don't see our country as being bullies. We are a super power and with that comes all the rights and responsibilies that position holds.
posted on December 26, 2002 04:47:24 PM newbut heaven forbid *other* countries have them...
I just wanted to add that as you know other countries already have WMD. We aren't trying to take those away. It was agreed by the International Community that other more 'volitile' countries should not be allowed to also produce these weapons. I agree with that for several reasons. The strongest being that the other countries care if their people would suffer as a result of WMD being used. They know we have them and could use them, we know they have them and could do the same. A stand off.
With these terrorists nations, and individuals their openly stated goal is to destroy our nation. I don't believe for one moment that Iraq wouldn't sell any weapons to the terrorists to help them destroy us. I don't think Suddam would be stupid enough to outright attack us himself. He should be aware we'd destroy him, but there's always that possiblity. Because they don't care...they're going to be rewarded with a better life after death. We care and imo are working to prevent this from occurring.
posted on December 26, 2002 05:43:41 PM new
Helen- It was rumored that NK had 2 nukes nearly 10 years ago. However, the shelf life for weapons grade material is far less than 10 years. Plutonium must be continuosly refined and replaced in the weapons.
It takes quite an infrastructure to make and MAINTAIN a nuclear weapon- that is why it is called a "program" and that is why it is somewhat easy to know if a country is pursuing nuclear weapons.
The reason that NK can contained much easier than Iraq is due to the strategic location of Iraq. Iraq can cause oil problems, NK can not. Problems in Iraq can easily seethe into Europe, NK's can not.
We are no longer in a cold war. The strategic interests in NK are minimal compared to Iraq.
At some point, China and Japan have to take a more responsible role in the region.
As far as China and/or Russia being involved in the nuclear sabre rattling by NK, I don't buy it. Russia has no interests in NK and China finds NK a distraction that they just as soon would disappear.
Neither Russia nor China's interests are served by NK having or threatening to use nuclear weapons. China has as much to lose as anyone if NK attempts to use nuclear weapons. It will throw the whole Pac rim region into economic and political chaos, and will provide the West with all the reasons and public support necessary to start making demands on China that it couldn't make now.
NK is starving and freezing to death, that is why it is making the threats.
posted on December 26, 2002 06:00:09 PM new
Helen- Just what is your reason for this thread? To simply alert us that North Korea is a threat? Surprised at the naivete? EXACTLY what is it that Ms. Gandhi is proposing- to once again turn the other cheek? Certainly not to take a military stance! You are doing the Texas two-step, Helen. Like a vegetarian alerting us that pork is the other white meat!
posted on December 26, 2002 06:04:10 PM newLinda:I just wanted to add that as you know other countries already have WMD. We aren't trying to take those away.
We aren't trying to take them away at present. The way Bush is going, he'll turn off our allies completely--and if they no longer are our allies, and they happen to have nuclear weapons (or any other WMD), they will be considered as "threats" in the current mindset. Then by your reasoning something will have to be done to protect ourselves...
Our country has been changed after 9-11. As long as there are those who openly threaten our way of life,
This mindset is not new. The Red Scares of the first half of this century engendered the same ideas. And then there was Pearl Harbor... We came within inches of a nuclear holocaust in the 50s & early 60s due to this sort of thinking.
Bush is such a fan of UN weapons inspections, how 'bout *every* country on the planet submitting to yearly inspections for WMD?
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
Doing the 5th dishwasher full of dishes now..with one more to go. 
But it was wonderful.
I would venture quite a few would care,There would be a massive fall out.Too bad N.K isnt more isolated.