maggiemuggins
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posted on October 12, 2004 09:01:56 AM
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Oct 28, 2004 08:58 PM ]
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Reamond
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posted on October 12, 2004 09:30:15 AM
The FBI has also closed down the Indypress.
US seizes independent media sites
Indymedia reports on the anti-globalisation movement
The FBI has shut down some 20 sites which were part of an alternative media network known as Indymedia.
A US court order forced the firm hosting the material to hand over two servers in the UK used by the group.
Indymedia says it is a news source for the anti-globalisation movement and other social justice issues.
The reasons behind the seizure are unclear but the FBI has reportedly said the action was taken at the request of Italian and Swiss authorities.
Legal action
The servers affected were run by Rackspace, a US web hosting company with offices in London.
It said it had received a court order from the US authorities last Thursday to hand over the computer equipment at its UK hosting facility.
The way this has been done smacks more of intimidation of legitimate journalistic inquiry than crime-busting
Aidan White, International Federation of Journalists
"Rackspace is acting as a good corporate citizen and is cooperating with international law enforcement authorities," said a statement by the company.
It said it was responding to an order issued under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty. Under the agreement, countries assist each other in investigations such as international terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering
The reasons behind the action against the Indymedia websites are unclear.
The group said the servers affected had hosted the sites of more then 20 local collectives and audio streams for several radio stations, as well as several other projects.
"Indymedia had been asked last month by the FBI to remove a story about Swiss undercover police from one of the websites hosted at Rackspace," said the group in a statement.
"It is not known, however, whether Thursday's order is related to that incident since the order was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia."
'Intolerable and intrusive'
A FBI spokesperson told the AFP news agency that it was not an FBI operation, saying the order had been issued at the request of Italian and Swiss authorities.
The seizure has sparked off protests from journalist groups.
"We have witnessed an intolerable and intrusive international police operation against a network specialising in independent journalism," said Aidan White, general secretary of the International Federation of Journalists.
"The way this has been done smacks more of intimidation of legitimate journalistic inquiry than crime-busting."
The UK site of Indymedia is back up and running but several of the other 20 sites affected are still offline.
In the US, the civil liberties group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) said it was working with Indymedia over how to react to the seizures.
"The constitution does not permit the government unilaterally to cut off the speech of an independent media outlet, especially without providing a reason or even allowing Indymedia the information necessary to contest the seizure," said EFF Staff Attorney Kurt Opsahl.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3732718.stm
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kraftdinner
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posted on October 12, 2004 02:41:31 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that most forms of communication are monitored for key words by governments whether they admit to it or not. I bet this has been going on for decades but with the advent of 911, it's touted as being justified as a way to get rid of bad people... as a way to save your freedoms. 
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CBlev65252
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posted on October 12, 2004 03:00:20 PM
Three words: Escape from LA
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
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Helenjw
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posted on October 12, 2004 03:44:34 PM
If George Bush is reelected all of our freedoms will be shot to hell.
Do the righties here love Big Brother?
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classicrock000
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posted on October 12, 2004 07:48:35 PM
Three words: Escape from LA
Cheryl
better yet--escape from cleveland
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Twelvepole
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posted on October 12, 2004 07:55:35 PM
If shuts up anti-americans like some posting here... I love big brother... 
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
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kiara
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posted on October 12, 2004 08:04:56 PM
That's the difference between some of us, twelvepole. We want less and less government intrusion in our lives. You want more and more. You want them to take care of you, to watch you, every step you take, every move you make. Like a big brother nursemaid telling you what to do and what to say and how to say it and ordering you around and you suck it all up and follow right along......... nodding your little head as they lead you. Saves you the hassle of having any original thought, eh? 
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bunnicula
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posted on October 12, 2004 11:51:30 PM
But...doesn't that make Twelve a....liberal?!?
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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Twelvepole
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posted on October 13, 2004 05:32:38 AM
LOL I want them to take care of me? How is that kiara? Big brother is not here for petty sh!t between us... it would be here if you and kraft were planning something against the US...
You liberals wanting less govt is a joke... who wants national health care? who wants the govt to finance stem cell research? who wants the govt to sanction homosexual marriage? who wants the govt to provide them with money they don't earn? None of that is me... better look again sweetie...
All of that is liberal thinking... nothing to do with me wanting more govt... it is wanting to keep this country safe...
freedom of speech is still a way of life...however threatening our govt may get you a chance to express more of that freedom....
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
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kiara
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posted on October 13, 2004 08:48:05 AM
Right now you have a government that you seldom disagree with here. The way things are going they will be right in your bedroom intruding into your most personal life. So why not have them monitoring all your computer messages too. You sit there assuming that they will censor all of the liberal views but not yours.
Isn't it a bit dangerous when you consider that in a democracy if one speaks out against the government it "may" be considered a threat? Where is that line and who determines when it's been crossed?
You never speak out about your Bush god or disagree with anything the administration does. In fact it has been mentioned here that one shouldn't question Bush or the government as that's anti-American, remember?
Assuming that they are doing everything the correct way and solely for your benefit is a dangerous and also a lazy way of thinking. That's what I mean about you wanting them to take care of you. You have put yourself in their hands......... willingly and without question.
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NearTheSea
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posted on October 13, 2004 01:10:33 PM
I don't agree with everything President Bush does or says. And he is not my God or god.
Yes we are a democracy and there still is free speech, just look around this forum
__________________________________
I'm NearTheSea, and I approve this post
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kraftdinner
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posted on October 13, 2004 01:21:08 PM
"Yes we are a democracy and there still is free speech, just look around this forum"
Hi Near! How can people have free speech if they're being spied on? Free speech with consequences if you say/write the wrong things isn't really free speech.
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on October 13, 2004 01:24:45 PM
BigBrother has entered the Chat Rpoms
Black helicopters are monitoring your brainwaves so you'd better put on a tinfoil hat.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 13, 2004 01:29:45 PM
There is no such thing as totally free speech. If a person threatens to kill someone in our government they WILL be investigated. If someone makes a death threat to another person...they WILL be talked to about it. If someone screams out FIRE!! falsely and others are injured...they will be prosecuted for their 'free speech'.
In reality free speech is only governed by our laws of libel and slander and by the governments inability to silence people. It doesn't mean there won't be consequences from what people say/post/write/etc.
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kraftdinner
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posted on October 13, 2004 01:52:15 PM
I agree Linda. That's why the term free speech is an oxymoron.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 13, 2004 02:29:07 PM
KD - I can't quite agree. Mainly because as written in our Constitution it was meant to keep the government from silencing opposing views.
Other than that....we are all free to say what we want to say...but along with 'rights' also comes responsibilities and that can be the consequences of what we say.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'"  Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner
Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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kiara
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posted on October 13, 2004 03:47:34 PM
Yes we are a democracy and there still is free speech, just look around this forum
Some of you pretend to have others on ignore because you are unable to tolerate free speech if it doesn’t match your views. You also tattle to Vendio. If Big Brother really started to monitor all forums they may even set up a “snitch and tattle line” and you would use it constantly.
Some of you already believe everything your government tells you so you are the perfect little lemmings Big Brother loves. You will fall into line very easily if laws start to govern this.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 13, 2004 04:34:11 PM
It's the liberals that are always working to make people MORE government dependent...not the conservatives. We believe in helping people and teaching them to help themselves...not make the government our nanny.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner
Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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kiara
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posted on October 13, 2004 04:52:51 PM
I approve of my tax dollar going for health care and education, not for savage, thoughtless wars that kill harmless, innocent people and destroy countries.
While you believe everything the government tells you, we are the ones that question and sometimes protest. That's why you would be perfect for Big Brother programming. You accept it all and b$tch at us for wanting change, you follow it all unwittingly, trusting everything they do and that's dangerous. No matter what person is in power, you should never trust them totally.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 13, 2004 05:05:47 PM
You need to speak only for yourself, your OWN thoughts, your OWN opinions, your OWN beliefs, kiara. Because you haven't been right yet when you're so busy speaking for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner
Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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Helenjw
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posted on October 13, 2004 05:13:56 PM
You are never right when you speak about me, linda but it doesn't slow you down a bit.
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kiara
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posted on October 13, 2004 05:57:51 PM
Not speaking for you Linda_k, you spend your whole life on Vendio giving your opinions and speaking your mind. Of course some of us know what you're thinking, you never stop telling us..... no matter what the subject.
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crowfarm
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posted on October 13, 2004 06:16:23 PM
BOY YOU SAID IT linda! You said,"Because you haven't been right yet when you're so busy speaking for me."
YUP, speak for linda and you won't be right .....guaranteed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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crowfarm
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posted on October 13, 2004 06:16:24 PM
BOY YOU SAID IT linda! You said,"Because you haven't been right yet when you're so busy speaking for me."
YUP, speak for linda and you won't be right .....guaranteed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Twelvepole
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posted on October 13, 2004 06:56:41 PM
we all have a "line" we won't allow crossed... I do agree with most of this administrations policies... however all you mention is Iraq...
I do agree that people like you give aid and comfort to our enemies.... however I do not agree with NAFTA, illegal immigration, or amnesty for those that hire illegals...
just some of things I don't agree with, but how many times are those subjects broached here?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 13, 2004 07:34:59 PM
Not speaking for you Linda
Oh really? Who do you think you're fooling kaira....certainly not me.
YOU said:
While you believe everything the government tells you, we are the ones that question and sometimes protest. That's why you would be perfect for Big Brother programming. You accept it all and b$tch at us for wanting change, you follow it all unwittingly, trusting everything they do and that's dangerous."
And I've NEVER said any such thing kiara...it's once again YOU putting words in my mouth about me. Speak for yourself....don't speak for what I do or don't do, because you're ALWAYS wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner
Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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kiara
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posted on October 13, 2004 11:59:24 PM
Not sure who you addressed that to, twelvepole. If it was to me I've talked about the economy, immigration and also about education and healthcare as well as Iraq. Guess you missed that because it seems that you mostly focus on topics about homosexuality.
I do agree that people like you give aid and comfort to our enemies
Who are you agreeing with? Does Bush say that or is it Linda_K?
Some of you don’t recognize that a person can love a country and its people and support the troops but not agree with all government policies. Some of you speak like you are programmed to think your government knows best and no one should openly question it. You sound programmed to believe that if your government does wrong, that you shouldn’t mention it and those that do are anti-American. You don’t understand true democracy.
Many neocons also express hatred towards the leaders, religions and all the people in certain countries and can’t seem to separate it. They disagree with abortion but at times they’ve even mentioned that entire countries should be nuked and they show total disregard for all human life that is not on American soil. I think they are the ones that don’t represent America and are the true anti-Americans.
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