posted on October 28, 2004 10:32:04 AM
Looks like we're about as bad as Saddam. No wonder they're blowing our soldiers up trying to get us to leave.
Oct 28, 2004 LONDON (Reuters) - Deaths of Iraqis have soared to 100,000 above normal since the Iraq war mainly due violence and many of the victims have been women and children, public health experts from the United States said Thursday.
"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq," researchers from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland said in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal.
"Violence accounted for most of the excess death and air strikes from (U.S.-led) coalition forces accounted for the most violent deaths," the report added.
The new figures, based on surveys done by the researchers in Iraq, are much higher than earlier estimates based on think tank and media sources which put the Iraqi civilian death toll at up to 16,053 and military fatalities as high as 6,370.
By comparison 848 U.S. military were killed in combat or attacks and another 258 died in accidents or incidents not related to fighting, according to the Pentagon.
"The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher than in the period before the war," Les Roberts and his colleagues said in the report which compared Iraqi deaths during 14.6 months before the invasion and the 17.8 months after it.
He added that violent deaths were widespread and were mainly attributed to coalition forces.
"Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children," Roberts added.
posted on October 28, 2004 10:47:53 AM
Stop it, Reamond, you're just trying to cheer linda up.
You know how news like this brings out her smiley faces!
posted on October 28, 2004 01:25:19 PM
Yet on the bad news side, only 25 million Iraq's have been freed of Saddams terrorism. That makes it a casuilty rate of .004 percent of the total population?
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 28, 2004 02:15:43 PM
Bear1949, You are such a dumb turd that you don't realize your failed leaders the bush/cheney GANG, HAS NOT FREED ANYONE IN IRAQ. If anyone ever gets free in Iraq it will be a VERY long time IF EVER. Meanwhile in Iraq OVER 1100 AMERICAN SOLDIERS HAVE DIED WITH 7,000 WOUNDED. Maybe you should tell all those AMERICAN FAMILIES how low a percent that number is. Maybe you should tell the rest of America about U.S. tax dollars are being spent in Iraq WHILE OUR DEFICIT GETS HIGHER AND HIGHER.
JOHN KERRY WILL WIN PENNSYLVANIA
HEY,HEY,HO,HO, WAY TO GO JOHN.
posted on October 28, 2004 02:58:15 PM
peepa apprently you don't have the intellect or thought process to comprehend the war on terrorism. If we werent fighting them in Iraq we would be fighting on AMERICAN soil. How many additional AMERICAN CIVILIANS would be dead. Isn't 2800 dead from the WTC's enough?
The way you liperals are, I can imagine the reaction you would have to seeing 10's of thousands armed American civilians walking the streets.
You can't have it both ways.
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 28, 2004 03:51:58 PM
Bear1949, its you that don't understand. Any President besides bush, Republican or Democrat would have done a MUCH BETTER job on this terrorism war. Your failed leader bush only became a RECRUITER for Bin Laden.
posted on October 28, 2004 04:17:27 PM
Right, and with thinking like yours, you deserve to be a prime candidate to be the first target.
America's military fights for cowards like you, though you don't deserve it.
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
[ edited by Bear1949 on Oct 28, 2004 04:18 PM ]
posted on October 28, 2004 04:27:10 PM
I agree, bear and neither does reamond when he compares our actions to those of saddam. Like our government killed millions of our own....like our government is acting in Iraq because they're being so welcomed. I often question what's the matter with the thinking process of these like minded Americans. grrrr...
-----------
All you whining dems had better prepare yourselves...because there's going to be a lot more dead Iraqi's in Fallujah very soon. Kind of like saddam's last chance. Give up or we're coming in to get you. This will be over shortly.
posted on October 28, 2004 06:10:43 PM
You can just visualise a big fat linda, drooling down her chin and wetting herself in anticipation of ......
"lot more dead Iraqi's in Fallujah very soon. Kind of like saddam's last chance. Give up or we're coming in to get you. This will be over shortly. """
Linda, what's this WE crap?
YOU, DUH, aren't There! Big talk from a fat mouth that isn't IN Iraq.
And THIS IS HILARIOUS! Like her bush she says,"This will be over shortly"
......didn't they say that a long, long time ago ?????
posted on October 28, 2004 06:21:37 PMI agree, bear and neither does reamond when he compares our actions to those of saddam. Like our government killed millions of our own....like our government is acting in Iraq because they're being so welcomed. I often question what's the matter with the thinking process of these like minded Americans. grrrr...
-----------
All you whining dems had better prepare yourselves...because there's going to be a lot more dead Iraqi's in Fallujah very soon. Kind of like saddam's last chance. Give up or we're coming in to get you. This will be over shortly.
What is the thought process behind Linda_k's message?
"We invaded your country and we are not here to be welcomed by you, we are here to kill you."
posted on October 28, 2004 06:34:07 PM
Bear1949, You don't still understand. I am not frightened like you and Linda_K.
That's way your bush/cheney lie machine scare tactics don't work with me.
Being as scared as you guys are. I believe you should dig your bunker a little deeper and get more protection. Even your failed leader bush said we can't totally win the war on terrorism. Dig deep my scared friend dig deep.
Linda_K said these words "All you whining dems had better prepare yourselves...because there's going to be a lot more dead Iraqi's in Fallujah very soon. Kind of like saddam's last chance. Give up or we're coming in to get you. This will be over shortly." ALL I CAN SAY LINDA IS NOTHING IN IRAQ "WILL BE OVER SHORTLY". You also use the words "whining dems" a lot. If you think because I hate to see fine American troops die because of a bad poorly planed war is "whining. If you think because I hate to see a 100,000 innocent people of Iraq die because of a bad poorly planed war is "whining". If you call that "WHINING" you are one very sick,sick puppy.
JOHN KERRY WILL WIN PENNSYLAVANIA. HEY,HEY,HO,HO WAY TO GO JOHN.
posted on October 28, 2004 11:51:36 PM
linda, you didn't answer again as usual because you're so wrong but I'll ask again anyway.......what will be over soon???????
Is it that week long war Rummy Rumsfeld talked about?
Is that what you're talking about/ Huh ? Is it linda....how long has the war gone on with no end in sight and you say it'll be over soon...like when, linda, when, c'mon, fat mouth, tell us all how soon it will be over?
posted on October 29, 2004 12:37:38 AM
I hate to break this to you guys but I'm not a "dem". In fact I have been personally offered tickets to Cheney events, as well as Bush events, and now Bush Schwartzenegger (sp?)events.
But anyone who considers Bush a republican should look at the republican platform and compare it to Bush's record. Bush is neither a republican nor a successful president.
posted on October 29, 2004 04:19:18 AM
Here's my take on bear. He's sitting in his cabin in the woods dressed in military gear with a stock pile of guns and ammunition all around him. "Bring it on, ya'll".
It's true that only the frightened have such blind support for this administration. Go ahead, live in fear. It's your life. I for one refuse to live in fear. Guess that makes me stronger than you.
Hey ho, way to go, Kerry with take O-HI-O!
Cheryl
Protect the environment. Plant a tree and remove a Bush.
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Oct 29, 2004 04:20 AM ]
posted on October 29, 2004 10:28:34 AM
cheryl - Here's my take on bear.
That gave me a chuckle this morning as after reading what you said above, it reminded me of the thread we had here quite a while ago where we each gave a written discription of how we saw other posters, physically, in our minds. That was so funny. LOL I'll never forget how I saw bunnicula and then what the reality of seeing her picture was.
I 'view' bear much differently. I see him as a man who bravely served this country and like others of our generation [I'm older than bear] we know the true of kerry's actions during that time. We experienced it...we don't have some 'sensitive' reporters view of the situation.
It's true that only the frightened have such blind support for this administration. Go ahead, live in fear.
I think you'd be better off sticking to what cheryl's feeling/thinking than continuing to project your views on the feelings/thoughts of others. I can only speak for myself....but I know I'm not fearful and I'd be surprised if bear felt fearful. We're the group that's got the guts to take our enemies on....fight them...take them out. Not the group that wants to put their head in the sand and who choose not to believe the terrorists own statements about their goals for our Nation.
Those are the truly sad citizens.
Guess that makes me stronger than you. You'd be wrong there too.
posted on October 29, 2004 10:29:47 AM
If the deaths of more Iraqis results in the saving of American lives on American soil, so be it. The only politico I am afraid of is that sellout traitor kerry.
Cheryl, I don't dress in camo.
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 29, 2004 11:36:24 AM
One thing I continue to notice is that the kerry supporters appear to think all those being killed are 'good guys'.
But the fact of the matter is our soldiers haven't been shooting/killing the 'good guys'. They're taking out the ones who are fight them.
Secondly, reamond, if the US had followed your original recommendation on just how to deal with the whole ME....we wouldn't be discussing how many deaths have taken place - now would we? It would be a crystal field of glass....few deaths or injuries to our troops either.
posted on October 29, 2004 12:04:21 PMBut the fact of the matter is our soldiers haven't been shooting/killing the 'good guys'
No our troops just abuse them while they are in prison.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on October 29, 2004 12:26:58 PM
And linda shows support for our troops by approving the use of torture, both for adults and children.....????????
Now she posts. "But the fact of the matter is our soldiers haven't been shooting/killing the 'good guys'. They're taking out the ones who are fight them."
Talk about your head up your butt...you dolt! Thousands of civilians ahve been killed by our troops, our war, our president!
I don't understand her pig Latin of " who are fight them."
But if she means who are fighting them ...how BLIND, tunnel-visioned- head in the sand can a human be! Definite mental problems.
posted on October 29, 2004 12:34:13 PMand yes...everyone pay attention.....this is the way helen and logansdad THINK they're showing support for our troops. sad sad sad
To take a page out of the Linda handbook....Don't go making assumptions about how I wish to show my support for the troops. You don't know how I think or what I do. So quit making assumptions about other people.
If want to show your support for the troops by running naked through the streets with a bullhorn and banners, that is your choice. If you want you can make them brownies and personally deliver it to the troops, that is your choice. Why don't you just have yourself delivered in a cake and pop out the top if you think that will show your support. I am sure the troops would love seeing you on top a cake.
In case you have forgotten there are parents who have lost sons and daughters that are very outspoken against the war and idiot in chief, Bush. I suppose to are going to say they do not not support the troops.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on October 29, 2004 12:40:33 PM
Linda, you are the sad one. And I mean that sincerely. It's disturbing to see you make a statement and then immediately deny it.
posted on October 29, 2004 12:42:21 PM
And here comes the Queen of LIARS again..with more lies...geeezzz lie after lie after lie...and she never tires of lying. How horrible to be him/her. What a terrible way to live each day.
---------
logansdad - I will call it how I see it. When you take the actions of a very small number of soldiers, that are being tried for their crimes, as representative of our troops...then yes, I believe your inability to see that fact....speaks volumes for your LACK of support of our troops.
posted on October 29, 2004 12:47:55 PM
There's not a thing wrong with me helen.
When YOU have said our troops should 'admit defeat' at the very beginning of this war....you PROVED to me that you don't/didn't support our troops.
They'd laugh their heads off at you telling them to admit defeat. THEY want to win helen...defeat the enemies....not surrender. You're the one who's not thinking clearly about how they think what their purpose is.
Nope, helen, not a thing wrong...I'm on OUR side....I have never seen you that way.
posted on October 29, 2004 01:09:01 PM
lindblob sats, "There's not a thing wrong with me helen. (WANNA BET. READ more posts)
When YOU have said our troops should 'admit defeat' at the very beginning of this war....you PROVED to me that you don't/didn't support our troops.
They'd laugh their heads off at you telling them to admit defeat. THEY want to win helen...defeat the enemies....not surrender. You're the one who's not thinking clearly about how they think what their purpose is.
Nope, helen, not a thing wrong...I'm on OUR side....I have never seen you that way. "
Helen , did you notice she tells you what you're thinking? WOW! Cool! That she can do that!
Oh ya and Crowfarm is right so quick call her a liar...yup, that's my response from the most uneducated liar of all times, linduh. Read a book lately linduh? You know those sheets of paper with board type pieces on each side and writing on the paper.
posted on October 29, 2004 01:16:43 PM
So, linda...you make a statement, immediately deny the statement, then, when questioned about the denial you change the subject altogether in just a few minutes.
posted on October 29, 2004 01:22:47 PMBear is another confused Fox News viewer and Bush supporter.
No confusion on my part The only ones with blinders on are you rabid anti Bushers.
No connection between bin Laden & Saddam?
Read on:
TRAIL OF TERROR
Bin Laden bedazzled
Saddam with jewel
$60 million Pearl of Allah
'evidence of al-Qaida link'
Posted: October 29, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Osama bin Laden tried to purchase the world's largest pearl, the Pearl of Allah, as a gift to Saddam Hussein "to unite the Arab cultures," and Hussein was prepared to accept, according to the pearl's owner.
Victor Barbish, who owns 66 percent of the pearl on behalf of his daughter, told WorldNetDaily he received an offer in 1999 from individuals who said they were "from bin Laden's group" to purchase the pearl for $60 million to give to Hussein as an overture of unity between al-Qaida and the Iraqi government.
The Pearl of Allah, the largest pearl on record, was recovered from a giant clam on May 7, 1934, off the coast of Palawan Island, Philippines. The pearl is 9.4 inches long and weighs about 14 lbs. According to the "Guinness Book of Records," the San Francisco Gem Laboratory has valued the pearl at $40 million. The Muslim diver who found the pearl said its surface bore the image of a turbaned face, and he named it the Pearl of Allah.
Barbish says the offer was presented to him in September 1999 by Allen Bhak and Alex Soria of Bhak Development, who at the time were reportedly soliciting an investment from Barbish in a business that promised large returns on a European program involving the buying and selling of bank debt, and who were asked by Barbish if they knew of anyone who might be interested in buying the pearl.
Barbish claims Soria and Bhak received the offer in 1999 from bin Laden through Latif Faed, an Iranian immigrant who was starting a chain of gasoline-station stores in California, and Faed's friend Azad Amiri. He says Faed and Amiri told him they were a "direct connection" to bin Laden's people, and that two bin Laden agents would meet Barbish in Denver to ensure he had the pearl and coordinate a $12 million deposit toward its purchase.
Barbish also says a man who identified himself as Muhammed Faed, a contact for Saddam Hussein in London, was involved in the negotiations and told Barbish that Hussein was prepared to accept the pearl as a token of unity with bin Laden.
Barbish provided WorldNetDaily with a series of signed faxes from Soria on Bhak Development stationery detailing the status of the purchase.
"Vic, I just spoke with Latiff, our contact man for Ben Laden [sic]. He said that he will know by Friday when Mr. Laden is contacted. Then it is just the matter of working out the logistics to sell and move the Pearl of Allah to the real buyer Ben Laden," read one document dated Sept. 8, 1999.
Another, dated Sept. 23, 1999, stated, "This is to officially inform you that we have an interested and serious buyer for the Pearl of Allah. The purchase price quoted directly to our buyer is $60,000,000 USD. There shall be a commission payable to Bhak Development of ten percent upon the consummation of the sale of said pearl ..."
A letter on Oct.1, 1999, read, "Vic, please be advised that Latif Faed and his associate, Azad Amiri, are diligently working on making the necessary wire transfer of the $12 million USD into the account established for [Saddam's contact Muhammed] Faed at Paine Webber in Boulder Creek, CO ..."
Barbish claims after several exchanges between himself, Soria, Latif Faed, and Muhammed Faed, a meeting with two bin Laden agents coming from overseas was set up around December 1999. He says he told all parties involved he would want to meet personally with bin Laden before selling the pearl.
Barbish said he never heard anything further about the meeting. He said he was later told the two men, whose names he never knew, were caught trying to illegally enter the U.S. from Canada. The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and FBI could not verify the arrests to WorldNetDaily without more specific information.
At the time, it was reported that an Algerian man, Ahmed Ressam, who was accused of trying to smuggle bomb-making materials into the United States from Canada and may have been an al-Qaida agent, was arrested at the border with Washington. The FBI suspected Ressam had an accomplice.
Grace Cook, a broker who introduced Barbish to Soria and told WorldNetDaily she was privy to some of the pearl negotiations, said she thought Ressam may have been one of the men sent to authenticate the pearl.
Bhak, who now heads Cosmopolitan Realty in Pleasant Hill, Calif., told WorldNetDaily he was not directly involved in the negotiations for the sale of the pearl, and doesn't know of any bin Laden offer. He said he remembers an offer was made through Soria, who he says was an independent consultant for Bhak Development working from his offices, but he claims he doesn't know from where the offer originated.
"Everything went through Alex," said Bhak. "I do remember the names Latif Faed and Amiri, but I never talked to them. I had nothing to do with them."
Barbish claims Bhak was directly involved in all aspects of the purchase offer, and that Bhak told him he met in his offices several times with Faed and Amiri.
Barbish, together with other associates, is now suing Soria and Bhak, along with the Wells Fargo Bank, alleging a trading scheme he says they headed, in which Barbish says he invested over $9 million, was a fraud.
Both Bhak and Barbish say they have not heard from Soria since 2001 and don't know of his whereabouts. Associates of Soria told WorldNetDaily he is in Las Vegas. An address there was found in his name, but attempts to reach him were unsuccessful.
Latif Faed, who now owns a chain of gasoline stations in California, denied he ever made contact with any bin Laden associates. He says he was approached in 1999 by Soria, who at the time was trying to get Faed a loan to open a chain of gasoline stores.
"Alex said maybe bin Laden might buy the pearl, he has a lot of money. I said if I find someone who knows bin laden I'd let them know. I thought I would know someone. I asked Amiri, who was my friend from Berkley, and he said no. And that was it."
Bruce Svihus, president of Renaissance Brokerage International in Colorado and a consultant and adviser to Barbish, told WorldNetDaily he listened on the phone in October 1999 from Barbish's house during several conversations between Barbish, Bhak, Soria, Latif Faed, Muhammed Faed and Amiri, all, he says, discussing in detail the coordination of a bin Laden offer, and through Muhammad Faed, the transfer of the pearl to Hussein.
Both Barbish and Svihus say they reported the offer when it was received to the FBI and several other U.S. agencies in California, Washington, D.C., and Florida. They sent WorldNetDaily a letter addressed to U.S. Customs and to an FBI agent in Concord, Calif., near Bhak's business.
A spokeswoman for the FBI in San Francisco told WND the agency received contacts from Svihus, but couldn't elaborate. An agent in the FBI's Concord satellite office remembers receiving a memo from Svihus, but said it was referred to the FBI in Denver.
Barbish said he was told not to go public about this sooner "because of ongoing investigations into Bhak, Faed and Soria."
The Pearl of Allah has been ensconced in an ocean of legend.
The chief of Palawan took possession of the pearl when it was found near his island and it is said that around 1939 a man named Wilburn Dowell Cobb saved the life of the chief's son and received the pearl in gratitude. Cobb's heirs sold it in 1980 to Peter Hofman, a jeweler from Beverly Hills who still owns a 33 percent interest in the pearl. Replicas of the pearl are on display at various museums around the world.
The giant pearl has also been called the Pearl of Lao Tsu, named after the legendary sixth-century B.C. philosopher known as the father of Taoism.
There are stories in which Lao Tsu, before his death, became weary of the evils of mankind and handed his nephew a small amulet upon which the philosopher had carved representations of Buddha, Confucius and himself the legendary Three Friends. He told his nephew to place the amulet securely in a clam. Doing so would bring great wealth and fortune to his family, he said.
The pearl, the story goes, was handed down from generation to generation growing larger and larger as it was transplanted into Tridacna clams of ever-increasing size until the pearl reached is present size.
The pearl is said to have influenced China's history. During the waning years of the Sui dynasty, a direct decedent of Lao-Tse named Lee, legend tells, had a dream in which the pearl spoke to him as a message of the Three Friends, foretelling a new dynasty distinguished by a more humane attitude then had prevailed before, and said a boy to whom Lee had recently offered shelter would become the second emperor. The story says the boy was Li Shih-Min, son of the Duke of Tang and founder of the Tang Dynasty.
One day, while the clam that held the pearl was being transported on a trading ship, according to the story, a typhoon struck the ship off the shores of the Philippines and the clam and its precious contents were lost at sea.
Barbish said he has fielded other offers to purchase the pearl, including one for $40 million from a group in Europe made through an excommunicated Iranian princess, as well as a group of casino owners in Las Vegas.
If Barbish's story is accurate, the purchase offer and the intent for it to be a symbol of unity toward Iraq would be a significant and important link between bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
Perhaps the most highly publicized evidence of an al-Qaida-Iraq link has been an alleged meeting between Sept. 11 terrorist Muhammad Atta and Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, in Prague in April 2001.
The Sept. 11 commission reported in June that it found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al-Qaida, challenging one of the Bush administration's justifications for the war in Iraq.
Presidential candidate John F. Kerry sought to profit from the commission's finding. "The administration misled America, and the administration reached too far," Kerry told Michigan Public Radio. "I believe that the 9/11 report, the early evidence, is that they're going to indicate that we didn't have the kind of terrorists links that this administration was asserting."
Barbish said, "In spite of ongoing investigations, I just couldn't sit back and listen to these lies about our government and President Bush. There was a connection between Saddam Hussein and bin Laden. Bin Laden tried to purchase my pearl as a gift to Saddam, and Saddam wanted to accept it, and I want the truth to get out there."
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
Like our government killed millions of our own....like our government is acting in Iraq because they're being so welcomed. I often question what's the matter with the thinking process of these like minded Americans. grrrr... 
