posted on November 10, 2004 12:32:50 AM
It doesn't surprise me if I hear that more and more of the Iraqis are fighting back. What do they have to lose now since much of their economic future looks to be taken away from them.
Economy Hurting Iraq More Than Violence
Tue Nov 9, 9:09 AM ET
BAGHDAD, Nov 9 (IPS) - Violence is taking a heavy toll in Iraq but everyday economic difficulties could be hurting people more.
Nearly 20 months into the occupation, Iraqis find themselves in a desperate situation, with countless struggling to survive.
Prosperity now looks like 70 percent unemployment.
Bush had also praised "a growing private economy" in Iraq after the former governing council approved a new law "that opens the country to foreign investment for the first time in decades."
But Antonia Juhasz, project director at the International Forum on Globalisation based in San Francisco in the United States says that orders to this effect by the disbanded Coalition Provisional Authority have allowed the economy of Iraq to be sold from under Iraqis.
In a paper 'The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the U.S. a Lock on Iraq's Economy', she wrote that order no. 39 allows for "(1) privatisation of Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; (2) 100 percent foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; (3) 'national treatment' -- which means no preferences for local over foreign businesses; (4) unrestricted, tax-free remittance of all profits and other funds; and (5) 40-year ownership licences."
Iraqis are therefore not given preference in reconstruction efforts in their own country. Foreign corporations such as Halliburton and Bechtel have been allowed "to buy up Iraqi businesses, do all of the work and send all of their money home," Juhasz said. "They cannot be required to hire Iraqis or to reinvest their money in the Iraqi economy. They can take out their investments at any time and in any amount."
posted on November 10, 2004 07:26:43 AM
Consider the source.
The "International Forum on Globilization"(www.ifg.org) is an anti-capitalist organization pushing for the eradication of corporations and the centralization of global economic rulemaking in new command centers to be created in the United Nations.
I read their(IFG) position paper and, in essence, they are a highly partisan manifestation of born-again socialists determined to "devolve" society into small constituencies of production; all of which to be coordinated by an expanded mandate for the UN.
Primary players in the '99 IMF riots in Seattle.
"Drop, drop — in our sleep, upon the heart sorrow falls, memory's pain, and to us, though against our very will, even in our own despite, comes wisdom by the awful grace of God"
~Aeschylus
posted on November 10, 2004 08:34:10 AM
"pandora'sBOX" says,
"The "International Forum on Globilization"(www.ifg.org) is an anti-capitalist organization pushing for the eradication of corporations and the centralization of global economic rulemaking in new command centers to be created in the United Nations."
Sounds good to me!
The rest of Kiara's post is just what the bush administration planned for so some of their "plans" have gone well. Too bad they didn't plan that well for our troops and killed so many with their lack of planning.
Now quit copying your posts from the encyclopedia.
What a transformation when a dummy suddenly becomes intelligent? No matter how you may disagree with pandora's position you can't compare her with linda. She may be a friend of Linda. She may share a similar political outlook but there is a different brain behind the message.
BTW...Crowfarm...Any message that you write here is read by all. If you want to share private messages, with Maggie, use email.
posted on November 10, 2004 11:54:11 AM
Pandora, the problem some of us have with all this, is that supposedly the war has been over with for months and from the words of the Bush admin., reconstruction is underway. We want to know where. We want to see pictures of what the other side is claiming so we don't feel compelled to only believe the negative stuff. So far, not one person on this board has been able to produce ANYTHING. As for Halliburton, could it be they're only there to secure the oil and nothing else? Why are they there? What are they doing right now? Where's all the Iraqi money going? Is oil being pumped? How many barrels a day? Going where?
posted on November 10, 2004 11:58:59 AM
Settle down Crow. I'll tell you something - when people say you need to get laid, it's because it's suppose to be the cure for everything (according to men). It's a joke. A stab at women in general - not you specifically.
posted on November 10, 2004 12:00:50 PM
The source doesn't matter. The account is factual. As a matter of fact, I posted this information her a month or so ago--it has been well-known for over a year just what Bremer was up to as "administrator" of Iraq. You can find the info all over the place.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on November 10, 2004 12:23:38 PMlinda hasn't been around much but Pandora'sbox has.
Linda is probably on a flight to Iraq so she can come back with more war reports that tell us how well things are going there since we are only hearing one side of the story. She will also be sharing her pictures of the reconstruction efforts.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 10, 2004 12:37:06 PMAnother pyrrhic victory
By B Raman
If the George W Bush administration in the US were wise, it would have waited for the current holy fasting period of Ramadan of the more than a billion Muslims of the world and their Eid festivities to be over before launching its much-publicized and much-hyped offensive to pacify Fallujah, the Sunni stronghold in Iraq, which is apparently perceived by the Pentagon as the nerve center of anti-US resistance and jihadi terrorism in Iraq.
But wisdom has rarely been the hallmark of the Bush administration, whether it be in the so-called "war against international terrorism" or the continuing war to pacify Iraq. Insensitivity to Muslim feelings and a shocking ignorance of Islam continue to be the two constants in US policymaking since September 11, 2001.
Heavens would not have fallen if the US had waited for another week or 10 days until the fasting period and the Eid festivities were over. Instead, by launching its offensive even before the fasting period was over, the Pentagon would have strengthened the widely held perception of the US all over the Islamic world as anti-Islam. It would have equally strengthened the urge for martyrdom in the minds of millions of Muslims all over the world.
The most important objective of any counter-terrorism campaign is to dilute the motivation of the terrorists and weaken their feelings of solidarity against a common enemy. Instead of attempting to do so, the US has, since September 11, again and again indulged in inept and unwise actions, whose only outcome could be to further strengthen their motivation, feelings of solidarity and urge for martyrdom.
posted on November 10, 2004 01:31:35 PM
No intention to call you stupid, crowfarm. I just don't agree that linda and pandora are equivalent intellectually and for you to infer that they are is a compliment to linda. Is that your intention? I'm sorry if you interpreted my remark as being rude.
Linda drops out for a few days every now and then but she will return. You can bet your life on that.
posted on November 10, 2004 04:31:27 PM
Iraqi and US troops found the slaughterhouses in Fallujah today where the hostages were taken to have their deaths filmed on CDs taped - these are the people you worry about being killed. How very twisted that is. The Iraqi and US forces are also shooting at their Mosques too. Suppose we'll be hearing all kinds of whining about that soon.
----------
And the reporter of kiara's first article has referred to our US military as terrorists....so anything he says past that point is totally unbelievable in my mind.
Of course the 'source' is relivant...if the person is anti-war and anti-capitalism....theirarticles are going to definately be very biased and show a big slant to the left....against America's best interests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 10, 2004 04:52:45 PMthese are the people you worry about being killed. How very twisted that is.
Please note that I don't label ALL Iraqi citizens as the 'bad guy'. I care about the safety of the innocent and I don't paint them all with one broad brush and assume that they are all up to no good.
You can continue to deny that Halliburton and other companies aren't cleaning up on this little 'liberation' episode but others know different...... especially the citizens of Iraq who have been shut out. They're not dumb.
posted on November 10, 2004 04:58:05 PM
Again kiara, this isn't about you.
It's about the reporter of your first article being just a little more than biased....especially when he refers to US soldiers as the terrorists. Shows his extreme bias just a tad. LOL
and remember there's only....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 10, 2004 05:04:04 PM
But Linda, some see the soldiers as the ones who have ruined their lives, whether it's true or not. If the tables were reversed and Iraq was a super power that decided your leader was bad and invaded, killing people and blowing up everything in sight, even though the leader had been captured long ago, wouldn't you fight?
posted on November 10, 2004 05:06:15 PM
Who the heck said it was about me?? I was talking about the citizens of Iraq and that they aren't all guilty in case you read my message wrong.
Bunni says:
The source doesn't matter. The account is factual. As a matter of fact, I posted this information her a month or so ago--it has been well-known for over a year just what Bremer was up to as "administrator" of Iraq. You can find the info all over the place.
I quoted from one source. It isn't the only one out there.
posted on November 10, 2004 05:08:40 PM
KD - You can't compare the two at all, imo. Other than saddam's 'trusted few' supporters there aren't any people in Iraq who are sorry saddam was removed.
What I think you on the left don't 'get' is that the insurgents [I hate that word, they're terrorists] are the one's fighting our troops and the Iraq forces too. It's not your common man/woman who would like to start enjoying their freedom and start rebuilding their lives that are fighting our troops. It's the terrorists who don't want to see freedom in Iraq. They're doing all this to hold up/prevent the elections from occurring in January. They're NOT your average Mr/Mrs. who want to get on with their lives, enjoy a new freedom - vote their wishes for the future of their country.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Nov 10, 2004 05:13 PM ]
posted on November 10, 2004 05:34:25 PMThey're NOT your average Mr/Mrs. who want to get on with their lives, enjoy a new freedom - vote their wishes for the future of their country.
There Linda goes again, knowing what the average Iraqi is thinking and wants for their country. I guess Linda got this information by interviewing them.
Both Linda and Dictator Bush must talk to Ms. Cleo regularly.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 10, 2004 05:40:20 PM
logansdad - Just because YOU choose not to read the polls and surveys taken in Iraq....doesn't mean I'm automatically 'guessing'. How very foolish and short-sighted that statement is. They're there for anyone to gain current knowledge....no guessing involved at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 10, 2004 05:40:25 PM
Well..where to begin?
First, I am not "linda" on this board nor have I ever been(in this life, at least) a linda"
In response to kraft /bunnicula:
My point in addressing the source of the original post was to simply shed some light on who exactly is speaking. It does matter, regardless of your political persuasion, to be aware of and to measure the objectivity of any source whose information / position you would accept an accurate description of any issue.
Bias is to be expected and is not wholly undesirable if it is buttressed by objective processes. Bias is however, in the case of the IFG , not truthful or objective if its primary underpinning & motivation is to destroy capitalism by championing causes and rationales that have been summarily dismissed by history and that from my personal perspective reek of the tired imaginings of boulevardiers.
Bunnicula's assertion that the source is irrelevant because "it is fact"; because the information is "all over the place"..is about as Orwellian as it gets.
I might point out that a Google search for the close-term phrase "up is down" results in 25,100 matches and thus, by the foregoing logic,it must be reasonably true statement. If so, my next step will undoubtedly deliver me to the Mad Hatter's table.
Kraft: You ask a very good question. Where is the objective analysis? For starters, I suggest:http://www.csis.org/isp/pcr/0409_progressperil.pdf
The CSIS is bi-partisan, strategic in scope and offers a critical assessment of Iraq so far.
It is not a rosy picture.However, all of the critical tools and methodologies are cited and thus, you have a reasonable basis to assess their conclusions.
The conclusions are based upon interviews and polling across Iraq. Essentially they conclude that things should have been done differently and more importantly make succinct operational recommendations.
"Drop, drop — in our sleep, upon the heart sorrow falls, memory's pain, and to us, though against our very will, even in our own despite, comes wisdom by the awful grace of God"
~Aeschylus
[ edited by pandorasbox on Nov 10, 2004 05:43 PM ]
posted on November 10, 2004 05:48:40 PMIf so, my next step will undoubtedly deliver me to the Mad Hatter's table.
I love that...but I do believe you've already arrived at the MHT. That would be a much more appropriate name for our board here than the 'Round Table'....as the Mad Hatter's tea party is exactly what this board as turned into recently.
By-the-way....welcome pandorasbox.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 10, 2004 07:25:33 PMlogansdad - Just because YOU choose not to read the polls and surveys taken in Iraq....doesn't mean I'm automatically 'guessing'. How very foolish and short-sighted that statement is.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Support among Iraqis for the U.S.-appointed government in Baghdad has plunged since it was installed this summer, a U.S. survey released on Friday said.
The survey brought unwelcome news for the Bush administration as it fights to build stability before elections in January. It also indicated that Iraqis are most strongly influenced by their religious, rather than secular, leaders.
The survey, carried out at the end of September, showed popular support for interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi dropped more than 20 percentage points since July.
Washington formally handed sovereignty to Iraq at the end of June.
Just over 45 percent of those surveyed said Allawi had been effective since taking office in June, down from over 66 percent in July, and support for his government plummeted from 62 percent to 43 percent over the same period.
The survey was carried out by the International Republican Institute, a government-funded body that promotes democracy around the world and which is helping oversee efforts to build political parties in Iraq.
Linda, if the Iraqi people really wanted to win their freedom, don't you think they (Iraqi military) would have stood up to the insurgents instead of running away when the military tried to take back Fallujah?
[I hate that word, they're terrorists]
I am sure the Iraqi people feel the same way about American troops busting into their homes in the middle of the night when they have done nothing wrong. I am sure the Iraqi people feel the same when American troops who are there to give them freedom are torturing Iraqi citizens while in prison.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
The RT is no different than most public boards...the anonymity of the web reveals alot about character.
Who we are or who we wish we were...not unlike the Cheshire Cat:
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. Which road do I take? she asked. Where do you want to go? was his response. I don't know, Alice answered. Then, said the cat, it doesn't matter."
"Drop, drop — in our sleep, upon the heart sorrow falls, memory's pain, and to us, though against our very will, even in our own despite, comes wisdom by the awful grace of God"
~Aeschylus
posted on November 10, 2004 08:24:55 PM
Well...logansdad...NO WHERE in your article did I read any Iraqi was 'fighting back' at our troops because some are unhappy we're there. Did I miss it somewhere in that article?
The polls show that the majority of Iraqi citizens DO NOT want the troops to pull out. They want us to remain and stablize their country and help them get their elections going. The majority are looking forward to that. And in order for that to happen places like Fallujah have to be 'dealt' with. We have to gain control over the terrorists hiding out there.
And I love how supportive you sound about our soldiers who are and have put their lives on the line. Taking our enemy's side and calling our guys the terrorists. That's real supportive of your own country...NOT!!! I will never understand people who live in this country, enjoy all it's benefits and can call our own soldiers the terrorists. Never.
-------------
pandorasbox - I think it's a case of paranoia with some here when a new poster shows up. And as helen pointed out so quickly...she immediately knew we weren't one in the same as she judges me to be the dummy and your ability to articulate yourself so very well does outshine my own lesser ability to do the same. But I've long been a believer that education doesn't necessarily make one 'bright' nor 'intelligent'...as I see here often. [to be clear - not referring to you, of course]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
when a new poster shows up. And as helen pointed out so quickly...she immediately knew we weren't one in the same as she judges me to be the dummy and your ability to articulate yourself so very well does outshine my own lesser ability to do the same. But I've long been a believer that education doesn't necessarily make one 'bright' nor 'intelligent'...as I see here often. [to be clear - not referring to you, of course]