posted on November 12, 2004 06:46:20 PM new
Three grown men couldn't over-power a six year-old? Guess the kid was lucky it was a taser, though...otherwise they probably would have shot him to prevent him from hurting himself!
Friday, November 12, 2004 Posted: 3:06 PM EST (2006 GMT)
MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his principal's office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to hurt himself, officials said Thursday.
The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on October 20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.
Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard back.
When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his hand.
The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him to prevent him from falling, police said.
He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for psychiatric evaluation.
"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him from hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami Herald.
posted on November 12, 2004 08:21:05 PM new
This child's behavior was not at all normal...and he was cutting himself and threatening a guard. I think they did the right thing and took care of the issue quickly and without anyone else being hurt.
posted on November 12, 2004 08:27:08 PM new
The police clearly did the right thing. They saved this child from himself. This should be a very good lesson for this child. The best learning tool is when they goof up and have to pay the consequences. The harshness of this one will stay with him for years to come. Now that this has happened, he will likely think a bit before reacting pooring in tough situations.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
posted on November 12, 2004 10:14:30 PM new
Learning tool? Yeah, that'll teach him to have mental problems. Because that is obviously the case. The behavior described simply isn't normal.
And I don't agree that tasering a child is the way to go about "helping" him. A six year-old boy would weigh between 33 and 66 pounds, depending on height. Three grown men couldn't manage to get a piece of glass away from him and subdue him?!?
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on November 12, 2004 11:49:13 PM new
How many times would he have cut himself before they subdued him, that is what they had to think of. He had already cut under his eye. What if he would have cut his wrist? Although he probably didn't know about the wrist he could have just cut it. It's a no win situation and I am sure no matter what way it would have gone these gentlemen will probably be in trouble.
posted on November 13, 2004 05:28:02 AM new
Taser was the right tool for the job... I see nothing wrong there... but I guess it would of been ok for one of the police officers to get cut by the boy before they got it away from him...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
posted on November 13, 2004 05:46:14 AM new
It's unbelievable and shameful that two police officers trained to subdue grown men and handle crisis situations would resort to using a 50,000-volt stun gun to shoot a 6 year old child, who weighs 55 pounds.
Without police officers, think about how you might handle your own children in a situation like that.
posted on November 13, 2004 06:11:13 AM new
Yes, it was definitely over reaction and probably impatience on the part of the cops.
But, hey, it's only a kid and some in here have advocated torturing children so I'm not surprised they think this is perfectly OK.
posted on November 13, 2004 07:36:32 AM new
A taser does no long-term damage. A cut in the eye, wrist, or elsewhere will. There would have been plenty of time for the child to have jabbed that glass into his own body as the officers rushed him.
We also have no information about the layout of the office. Maybe they couldn't have rushed him at all from the position he had.
I doubt for a second the police officers were in any personal danger. the danger was to the child by his own fear and lack of knowledge.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 13, 2004 07:55:44 AM new
An adult died recently because of the use of a taser as it damaged his heart. That was a risk that they took by using it on a small child.
Someone should have been able to subdue the little boy by talking to him. Obviously he was in some kind of pain to want to hurt himself and he needed help, not more pain. This doesn't 'teach' him anything and he may have even more problems now.
Children are to be cared for by adults, not hurt by them, no matter how 'bad' they are. I hope there is an investigation before this becomes standard practice all over and a little kid ends up dead someday.
posted on November 13, 2004 08:55:13 AM new
I feel fairly confident that had I been there, I would have been able to talk the kid into putting down the piece of glass without further hurting himself or others.
Too many times the police have a tendency to act like chickenshits and will act out of their own personal saftey rather than others.
They carry billy-clubs, don't they?? I'm not saying that they should have cracked his head open with one, but they could have used them to subdue the child and still stay safely away from the hand that held the piece of glass. A billy-club can be used in ways other than to swing it at someone.
And what about when they tasered the kid, what happened at that point to the piece of glass in his hand, did it just fall harmlessly to the floor?? The kid could have fallen on it, further injuring himself.
Like I said, the police sometimes are chickenshits and these are things that they don't think about in situations.
posted on November 13, 2004 09:01:59 AM new
It is hard to talk, or reason, with a child in an irate situation. If the whole article was posted here you could have read that this child had problems even before this incident. I can speak from experience. Not from this kind of a situation but from a medical one. Many times in my 45 years as an x-ray tech a child comes in hurt. Physician either orders an x-ray or CT. Once that child sees that they think they are going to be hurt (remember I said think) there is no reasoning with them as they are to young to reason with. It doesn't matter the size of an adult or adults. If that child thinks he is going to be harmed, even though we know they aren't there is no way to change their minds. They have more moves than a belly dancer and with that glass in his hand he could have really harmed himself and yes killed himself. One slit of the wrist in the wrong direction could have been disaster for that child. This child did have some mental problems. The whole article appears in the Miami Herald. CNN only has a part of it.
posted on November 13, 2004 09:23:58 AM new
Yes 12 I have seen those children first hand.
I tried to get into the Miami Herald so that I could post the whole article. I did notice another article on a 12 year old that they used the taser on. She was drunk according to CNN, but when I tried to go back into the Miami Herald they kept asking me the same questions and I gave up. Why do newspapers do that. Oh well time to move on.
posted on November 13, 2004 11:14:23 AM new
Helen, I agree completely with you. How can three police offers not overtake a small child?
I feel the police used excessive force in this situation. The police could have used an alternate form of a weapon to subdue the boy such as those guns that fire the bean bags. It would have had the same results but without firing 50,000 volts into a 6 year old.
If a parent used a taser at home on their unruly child, they would be arrested for child abuse.
Zapping a 6-year-old with 50,000 volts of electricity could cause permanent damage to the heart depending on the size of the child and other genetic factors, an expert in pediatric cardiology said.
''It is clear that certain electrical shocks in a susceptible child at the right dose can certainly cause the death and damage of heart muscle cells,'' said Dr. Steven Lipshultz, chairman of pediatrics at the University of Miami School of Medicine. ``But it really varies from child to child and dose to dose of electricity.''
He said he didn't have enough information to comment on police use of Tasers on children. He was not aware of any case of a Taser doing permanent harm to a child.
But, he said, the destruction of heart muscle cells from electrical current can have long-term implications for some children.
''If you destroy a heart muscle cell, it doesn't grow back,'' Lipshultz said. ``If a child lost enough heart muscle . . . when they grow up, it could put them at risk.''
Lipshultz added that if a 50,000-volt shock hits a child's heart in the wrong spot, it could cause an abnormal rhythm and kill the child.
''It's not like you can do a study on children testing this before you approved the use,'' he said.
Phoenix-based Taser International, which supplies Miami-Dade police with stun guns, released a statement to The Herald in response to questions about the use of their guns on children.
Testing has shown a significant safety margin when using Tasers on ''subjects with body weight as low as 60 pounds,'' said Steve Tuttle, director of communications, in an e-mail.
Miami-Dade police have not released the height and weight of the 6-year-old boy at Kelsey Pharr Elementary in Brownsville who was shot with a Taser stun weapon on Oct. 20.
According to 2000 statistics from the National Center for Health Statistics, the average range for a 6-year-old is 40 to 60 pounds.
In September, Tuttle told The San Jose Mercury News that Taser International's medical research showed that using the weapon on juveniles -- even toddlers -- is safe.
Tuttle told The Herald that ''approximately 1,700 school resource officers'' in the United States were using Taser devices as of August.
It's not clear how often police across the country have used Tasers on kids.
In October 2002, police used a stun gun to subdue a 15-year-old girl in Miramar after she hit an officer in the head.
In May of this year, police used a Taser on a 9-year-old girl who was banging her head against the windows of a police car, according to a report in The Arizona Daily Star.
Tuttle told The Mercury News that the company had received a handful of reports since 1998 of the gun being used on children, including a 7-year-old Colorado boy who charged police while he was armed with knives, a 9-year-old Texas boy who attacked his mother with machetes and a 13-year-old Colorado girl who waved knives at police officers.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 13, 2004 12:03:25 PM new
"The police could have used an alternate form of a weapon to subdue the boy such as those guns that fire the bean bags."
Be serious logansdad, if the police carried everything that people wanted them to carry they couldn't move.
I guess you have never chased your child and not caught him. If your child is afraid of you think of what that child thought with those men in police uniforms. This child was carrying a weapon that could have killed him. Not the police officer. The police were trying to protect him from himself not them. When someone either adult or child have mental problems I honestly don't think you can reason with them. Maybe that child shouldn't have been at that school. Who knows and I am sure we will hear more about this.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 13, 2004 12:20:19 PM new
And another point... This was a large piece of broken glass, not something as simple as a knife.
If the officers had simply "rushed him" how specifically do you force a piece of glass out of someone's hand without the strong chance of them lose some or all fingers? The tighter the kid sqeezed the glass, the more damage he would have done.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 13, 2004 04:44:56 PM new
Now we are beginning to understand why bleeding heart liberals are raising children that are not responsible for their own actions.
Point is, the child had a very dangerous weapon, both to the police and himself. If I were a cop, I sure wouldn't want to confront someone with a piece of jagged glass without a weapon of my own. The police absolutely made the right decision here. They spared this childs life to hopefully get it turned around. Without the taser, what would have been the alternative. BANG BANG We now have a dead kid.
Congrats to the police for doing the right thing and same on the bleeding hearts for having their collective heads up their keesters.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
posted on November 13, 2004 04:56:54 PM newif the police carried everything that people wanted them to carry they couldn't move
Who said they needed to carry every weapon available to them. They should have different weapons available in their squad cars for different situations.
The bean bag "gun" would have yielded the same result without the 50,000 volts. The shock the child received could have stopped his heart.
If this was your child would you have wanted the police to use a taser on him/her. I bet if this was your child, the majority here would be screaming the police used excessive force.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
MIAMI Miami-Dade police have acknowledged using a stun gun on a second youngster. It comes just weeks after an officer subdued a 55-pound first-grader with a 50-thousand-volt shock.
In the second instance, a 15-year-veteran officer used his Taser to immobilize a 12-year-old girl who was playing hooky from school.
Police Director Bobby Parker says he can't defend the decision to shock the girl on November fifth. But Parker says the use of the Taser was justified in shocking a six-year-old boy October 20th because the boy was holding a piece of glass and threatening to hurt himself.
Parker says the department will review its policy on the use of the weapons.
posted on November 14, 2004 09:35:44 AM new
Yes Helen they did but if you would have read and posted the whole story you would have seen this 12 year old was drunk and running into the street where there was traffic. What should that policeman do in that situation. Just let her run into the street and get hit by a car and that way she would get hurt and just imagine the feelings of the person that hit her.
Now to answer logansdad question about the bean bag thing. In order to shoot that bean bag the police office would have had to use a 12 gauge shot gun. The bean bag will also injure according to reports.
I don't know what I would do as a parent if they did that to my child and I can't comment on this case because I do not know the mental capacity of the young lad. The girl was drunk is another situation. In this world of sue, sue sue they will probably sue and probably a jury will award a large settlement but the children are still alive. Good case for John Edwards.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
I posted the complete story as you will see if you click on my link. The new information that you have posted will undoubtedly be investigated and a policy decision will be made about shooting drunk children. Frankly, I doubt that story. Florida is coming up with some unique uses for such guns and they appear to have them ready to fire instantly.
posted on November 14, 2004 11:51:21 AM new
By the count of CBS News, 70 people have died after being TASERed, including 10 in August alone, Andrews observes. And while the company asserts every one of these victims died of something else, many critics believe the company has not done enough research to know that with certainty, Andrews adds.
posted on November 15, 2004 02:19:33 PM new
Apparently bunni and helen aren't teachers or know any teachers these days. Many of the children today are monsters even in grade school. A friend of mine teaches elementary school in a suburb of Dallas, and he can tell you of grade schoolers attacking their teachers, spitting on their teachers, hurting themselves, and, yes, commiting suicide in their parents cars with the motor running in the garage. They can hardly find the time to teach for sending the students to the school nurse for their Ridalin. Our schools are not a pretty sight these days. And this is not an inner-city school, but and up-scale school in a well-to-do neighborhood.
