posted on March 3, 2005 03:18:43 PM new
This is akin to what was being discussed about executing minors, but it went off topic, as they usually do
Twig said
Kids already have more rights than the parents. Parents have no control and government agencies have taken away our leverage....Can't smack a child on the ass or the back of the head when they desperately need it, can't "spy" on your kid when you think they have fallen in with the wrong crowd.....Kids aren't held responsible because they might feel bad.
AMEN Twig!
In our state (WA) we have whats called the Becca Bill (they did when my kids were in high school at least)
My youngest did not 'like' school, and decided 'she didn't need to go' at 16-17.
I did everything short of smacking her, I NEVER laid a hand on mine. She refused to go, I tried everything, from bribery first(the worst thing to do is bribe a child) to pouring a cold pitcher of water on her in the morning (some will scream ABUSE on that, tough) she simply took off the wet blankets and sheets, and laid down again
So, I was supbeoned to court, ME, her parent. I was going to be fined and I could go to jail. I went before the damn school board more times than she went to school.
They assigned a psychiatrist (I had to pay) for her to go, required. I took her..DX: ADD
RX: Ritalin....... yeah! she started on them and LIKED them, she said they made her feel REAL good, and her friends liked them too! ! Threw away the ritalin.
Next day missed I was to pay the fines and go to jail, they do not put minors for this in juvenile detention, no, the parents pay, no matter that I was doing everything.
I went to the school that day.. I lied. I told them I was withdrawing my daughter, needed her files and she was going to go live with her father in TX. She was almost 18 then. No freaking way I would send her there with him. She was at home, I found job corp she was 18 then, so it would be free for her, she went, she did it, she got a GED
Today she is doing great.. she's married and has a baby. She had a great job at WA Mutual Bank before that.
ALSO the school(s) would give out birth control without parents knowledge... ok, the worst they would do is they would set them up for ABORTIONS WITHOUT PARENTEL CONSENT OR WORSE, KNOWLEDGE about it!!
Its not whether I agree or disagree with abortion, its the fact that they could do that without my knowing. Women have DIED having abortions, with the best of drs, the LEAST is that they could let me know!
posted on March 3, 2005 04:31:21 PM new
Near you handled it better than I would have. Your only other option would have been boarding or military school.
We have some friends that their grandkids have started threatening to call CPS & report their parents for what the kids considered abuse. I told the kids to go ahead and call. If they were lucky they might get to come back home in a month or two after the investigators determined they were lying.
I heard the GK's have stopped their threats.
A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
- Bill Cosby
posted on March 4, 2005 04:56:43 AM new
I don't know what the laws are there, but here you can file unruly child charges and that's the route I would have gone. If that didn't work, I would have emancipated her and tossed her out on her rear end. Let her see what the real world is like.
You can, by the way, smack your child on the arse. At least here you can. I had a person from child protective services tell me to go ahead and do it. In fact, as long as I only use my hand, they encourage it.
My mother used to use a hot wheel track. We came to attention when we saw that coming. Even as a 16 or 17 year old. If we got the paddle in school, she didn't go into a rage over the school touching us. She asked us, "So, what did you do?" You can hardly blame the kids when it was those parents who complained about school discipline that got it stopped. Sue-happy people is what they were. The right to discipline our children was taken away by the people who abused their children. It was taken away by the lawyers who pursued cases even if there wasn't a case to pursue. Even child protective services in the beginning were making cases where there were none. Now, parents are afraid.
I once had to go to court because my son was caught off-grounds during school hours. I could have just paid the ticket and not had to go to court. However, I stood in front of the judge and asked her how a single parent that has to work can keep both eyes on her child during that time? I pointed out that when I drop my child at school in the morning, responsibility for his whereabouts during school hours falls on the school. If the kids can so easily walk out the door, how are they doing their job? Parents cannot be two places at one time and since we cannot properly discipline our children, what was I expected to do? I got out of paying anything. I will tell you this, even though my son was 16, he got it when I got home. I never had that problem again.
What I would suggest parents do is contact your local child protective services agency. Ask them what you can and cannot do and document it. Get the person's name. Also, call your local police department and ask them. Then, go for it. Children have become very good at playing the "abuse" card. And why not? They've been taught to play it and they learn very quickly.
A funny story. Back in the early 70's, I was caught by the police being out very late at night (or very early in the morning depending on how you see it). They hauled me to the police station. I wasn't scared until they asked for my parent's phone number. Once my mother got there (a lot less sympathetic than my father) I got mouthy with her. The office took one look at me and said, "If you talk to your mother like that again, I'll take you over my knee and wallop you". I never forgot what he said. My how times have changed.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 4, 2005 07:32:42 AM new
Cheryl
My parents could be the same way. We were spanked as children, there wasn't laws against it, or children calling CPS on their parents. My mother used the back of a hair brush, but not often, we all knew she hated doing that, and we had to have done something terrible to get that
I tried the emanciption deal. I first had to find out how that worked. Here the court will only emancipate a minor if he or she has a job and can afford to support themselves, and they will monitor the child (at least that is what it was when she was 16)
Hey! I offered that to her, she didn't want to get a job!
Bear, she called cps here, on absolutely nothing, just lies, she was a terrible teenager, I about went insane, well, maybe I am, Can I blame her now? LOL
Cheryl, again, this is how screwy things are.. you have to call CPS to find out if you can punish your child a certain way??
WHAT has happened to society these days? Its nucking futs!!
Classic, believe me sometimes! I wish I were a lion back then!
posted on March 4, 2005 11:24:45 AM new
My story on this subject is that our local school was 'progressive' enough to give the students, in either 5-6 grade, their own 'bill of rights'. A full page list, both sides, of what parents could and couldn't do to their own children - supposedly governed by laws at the time. And like some have stated here already...it meant no 'swats'.
This list gave the children the leverage of reporting parents for any violation they felt their parents were making. Another one being locking them out of the house.....call and report your parents.
I remember at the time telling my husband this list reminded me of how the German's used to train the children to report their parents to the state....and they did.
Our son was particularly pleased by one point the "Bill Of Rights" pointed out. It pertained to money they earned and the parents not having the 'right' to take it from them...legally. At the time our son had a paper route and the agreement between us with him was that 1/2 of what he made when into his savings account....which we held the account booklet to. So...there he was DEMANDING that he'd report us for breaking the law if we didn't let him spend all he made. Dad told him to go ahead and report us....but be sure there was enough in his account to support himself for the rest of his life before he did so. Took care of that discussion real quick.
To me these 'do-gooders' act and make laws that are kind of like tying parents hands behind their backs and then telling them to 'make your child mind'. Parents are afraid today of being reported to CPS....and with good reason. And the consequences of that are showing in our out-of-control young people who have no respect for any authority. Sad to say.
edited to add another 'list' issue.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 4, 2005 11:29 AM ]
posted on March 4, 2005 01:36:08 PM new
Another thing that could have been pointed out to your son would be the fact that legally you only have to provide basic shelter, food and clothing. Not snacks, not games, not spending money. You don't have to drive them around anywhere either. You could buy all his clothes at the resale shop. No TV or phone in the room, etc., etc., etc. So, you yourself could save money on the extras he's provided and allow him to pay for the extras himself (far more money than he makes on a paper route), or he could just save 1/2 his money as he agreed and life would go on as usual. This usually works, too.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
I had some problems with my daughter (is it a girl thing?), but not as much as you. On the bright side, she turned into a wonderfully responsible adult and a doting mother. You just never know. The thing I laugh about is the fact that she doesn't allow her daughter to get away with anything. I'm still waiting for the pay-back thing to happen.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 4, 2005 02:15:31 PM new
Yes, Cheryl, there are many things parents can do to point out to their children when they think they're controlling the 'rules' of the house.
One neighbor of mine and her husband had five children....and major problems with the two oldest [as teens - boys]. They joined the local high school group of 'Tough Love' and boy did they come home with some great suggestions to try.
They figured the teens were sharing all the terrible problems their parents were creating for them with their friends....and parents felt they needed the same type of 'support group' the teens had.
One suggestion that came home, since you mentioned phones, was a single, working mother who had taken the priviledge of using the phone away for a month. The daughter used it while she was at work and she didn't know how to stop her. The group came up with the suggestion to remove the phone and take it with her. Voila....no longer an issue during the 'consequence' period.
I think more groups like this would help parents who feel their 'teens' are out-of-control with suggestions from others who have found solutions that work. Take what you like...and leave the rest sort of thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 4, 2005 02:28:33 PM new
My mother always said she hoped I'd have one just like me....and I did, in spades!
Once, when Jazz was 13, we had to go to a company Christmas party, as a family. She did NOT want to go. Once we arrived, got out of the car and started heading in, she called me a "b*tch". I spun around, with my hand in back-hand motion, which she blocked and said if I hit her she'd call CPS. I told her to go right ahead...They'd put her in a foster home, make her wash dishes (a "sexist" job), do laundry (another "sexist" job) and an assortment of chores that I did in between my two jobs. I figured she could be good for a month or two, then she'd start acting like herself and they'd PAY me to take her back. Needless to say, she never made the call.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have spanked both of my children. My father was real quick with whatever was handy for little or no reason whatsoever, and I swore I would never be like that.
My kids turned out pretty well, against a wheelbarrow load of odds, and they both think I'm pretty cool. And they know they could have had it ALOT worse.
posted on March 4, 2005 03:57:50 PM new
BTW, everyone, my "baby" turned 21 day. Wah!!!
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 4, 2005 07:08:21 PM new
We want our kids to be "kids" far too long, and as a result, we end up making excuses for them. "It's the age", "It's hormones", "They're just kids"...we enable their misbehavior by lowering expectations for them.
Both my girls, and now my son, began managing their own money at the age of 5. I gave each in his or her turn complete charge of our poultry flock. Clean the coop, gather eggs, feed, water, leave a note in the barn when feed/supplies are low, supply the kitchen with eggs, and the rest are yours to sell to neighbors, the produce stand in town, where ever you can find an outlet. The money is yours to do with whatever you want, no strings attached. However, don't think of asking for a video game, the latest makeup, or any other unnecessary item. If you want it, you save your money and buy it. My second girl bought her own laptop at the age of 13 with money she saved from 4H auction sales of lambs she raised herself and sold. My son, who took a notion to learn the clarinet, paid 200 dollars of his money on Ebay and got a great deal on a very nice Yamaha instrument.
I can honestly say I have never had an argument with one of my kids in the middle of a store over money. My kids, without ever having had a single solitary "lesson" from me about the value of a dollar, will pick up a must have item in a store, look at it, and say "I'm not paying 20 dollars for this!.
Kids want and need clearly defined, stridently enforced limits, with definite consequences for breaching those limits. I really believe parents are most often to blame for setting unclear examples, and erratically applying consequences. It doesn't take kids long to figure out when their parents don't mean what they say.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
Ya, making the mother cry was the worst! I had to do something pretty bad to get her to cry. The couple of times she did made me want the hot wheel track over the tears.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
if we didn't let him spend all he made. Dad told him to go ahead and report us....but be sure there was enough in his account to support himself for the rest of his life before he did so. Took care of that discussion real quick.