posted on March 24, 2005 02:19:13 PM new
Last night 3/23/05 CNN ran a poll about BUSH AND FOX calling the citizens trying to guard parts of our southern broken borders "VIGILANTES". See CNN'S poll question and answers below.
Are you offended by President Bush's decision to side with Mexican President Vicente Fox in calling U.S. citizens who volunteer to monitor the border "vigilantes"?
posted on March 24, 2005 05:50:41 PM newAre you offended by President Bush's decision to side with Mexican President Vicente Fox in calling U.S. citizens who volunteer to monitor the border "vigilantes"?
Nope.
I know some of those fellows personally. I even do business with them. One family of them pays us to run cattle on our land. Many of them are sincerely concerned and are suffering damage to their property, and feel like they must take matters into their own hands because nobody's helping them. The problem is, they're recruiting any trigger happy nutball who's willing to sign up. People are going to get hurt, and it won't be all illegals...What's funniest about this is as far as I can tell, they all pretty much voted for Bush
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 24, 2005 07:48:11 PM new
CHENEY SAID, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS IN AMERICA, WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE,WHERE THEY ARE,OR WHAT THEY ARE DOING. HE WENT ON TO SAY THE WHITE HOUSE PLAN ON IMMIGRATION WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM.
On the Lou Dobbs Tonight Show (3/24/05) CNN ran this question poll below.
Are you offended by Vice President Cheney's response to the United States' illegal alien crisis?
posted on March 28, 2005 10:52:33 AM new
What I have a problem with is Mexico and them not keeping their people in their country. Why is it always the US that has to take action?
The reason we don't have the problems with Canada is because Canada takes care of their citizens like every country should.
I agree about Mexico. Three things about Mexico and our open border. Mexico is getting rid of millions of their poor people. The money Mexicans are sending back to Mexico is equal to about 10% of their National Economy. Its the job of Mexico to close their borders and its our job to close our borders.
desquirrel and profe51, Thanks for your views on this issue. Looks like you guys disagree with the vast majority of the American people. You have made you views about the vigilante poll. Now how do you feel about what Cheney said?
posted on March 28, 2005 02:16:18 PM newLooks like you guys disagree with the vast majority of the American
edited to add: My views about things aren't formed based on what some poll says most Americans think. Are yours??
people.Now how do you feel about what Cheney said?
I don't feel anything about what Cheney said. The man's a proven liar in my book. On quick reading of the President's plan, I don't see much to criticize. I think it'll certainly help in documenting who's in the country and what they're up to, if it's fully implemented.
Mexico should keep it's people home. Right. Saudi Arabia should have kept it's people home too. It's their fault we didn't see the terrorists coming.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
[ edited by profe51 on Mar 28, 2005 02:19 PM ]
posted on March 28, 2005 02:22:22 PM newThe reason we don't have the problems with Canada is because Canada takes care of their citizens like every country should.
Correct me if I'm wrong here Libra, but didn't most of the 9/11 hijackers enter this country thru Canada?
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 28, 2005 02:26:42 PM new
Libra - are you suggesting that Mexico should deny it's citizens the right to travel? Interesting concept. I think Russia used to have the same policy.
Why doesn't Mexico keep it's citizens within it's borders? Because they are a free nation. Why do you feel that every other nation should adjust it's government and the freedoms of it's citizens in order to make things more convenient for us?
And people wonder why the world considers Americans arrogant.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 28, 2005 02:27 PM ]
posted on March 28, 2005 02:29:04 PM new
Well yes they did but they weren't Canadian Citizens. I am talking about the Citizens of the country. What I am talking about is Mexico taking care of their Citizens.
posted on March 28, 2005 02:42:37 PM new
they are trying Libra - but I seem to remember that you complain about those efforts as well - does NAFTA ring a bell?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 28, 2005 02:43 PM ]
posted on March 28, 2005 02:49:37 PM new
I can't remember if I said anything about nafta, but isn't nafta sending jobs to Mexico. But I did mention illgal alliens picking fruit and vetegables. What I am complaining about is the length of the border and how to maintain that. That is what bigpeepa is talking about I think. How do you maintain a border that long? I think Mexico is just as responsible as we are. We shouldn't be responsible for the whole border.
posted on March 28, 2005 04:00:19 PM new
Libra - if they do not mind their citizens leaving and also do not mind our citizens entering then why do you feel they are responsible for controling something that WE want controled from our side? They have a finite amount of resources. Wouldn't you rather they utlize those resources to reinvest in their own country in order to eventually eliminate the NEED for their citizens to emigrate? Besides, they already have a border they have to protect. They have their own issues with illegal immigrants from south america coming across their southern border.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 28, 2005 04:13:58 PM new
::I can't remember if I said anything about nafta, but isn't nafta sending jobs to Mexico::
Yes. It is helping to employ Mexican citizens which is how you lessen the desire to leave in search of greener pastures. It also allows american manufacturers to lessen their costs and increase their profits which strengthens their stock prices avoiding devaluation of our dollar on the world market which effects prices that our agricultural and other export industries recieve, enables domestic retailers of mexican made products to offer affordable prices which encourage sales and enable domestic employment, etc etc etc.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 28, 2005 07:09:16 PM new
deaf ears, fenix.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 28, 2005 07:42:12 PM new
fenix03, you are so right about outsourcing U.S. jobs to a much cheaper labor market. Outsourcing does very much help industry and their stock holders. Yes, the wealthy American is doing better than ever. Its only the working class that is getting hurt by trade agreements and outsourcing.
Our dollar is devaluing. The U.S. buys way more than we Export. You are right importing cheap offshore products does produce low paying sales jobs for the U.S. worker. From your words I guess you find offshore trade agreements a good national plan. Am I reading you correctly? I will wait for your reply.
posted on March 28, 2005 08:12:25 PM new
profe51 said, My views about things aren't formed based on what some poll says most Americans think. Are yours??
Yes my views almost always agree with the views of the majority of Americans. Its people like Tom Delay and his kind or minority I worry about. Take a minute and read his words below. If his speech was translated into Arabic and you changed the word God into Allah you could think you were listing to a speech giving by a Taliban Leader.
"It Is More Than Just Terry Schiavo"
Transcript: The embattled House Majority Leader finds parallels between Terri Schiavo's case and his own
By KAREN TUMULTY
Wednesday, Mar. 23, 2005
Last Friday, as the House and Senate were working out their differences over legislation to stop the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, embattled House Majority Leader Tom DeLay discussed the issue at a gathering of the Family Research Council at the Willard Hotel in Washington. In the speech, he drew parallels between Schiavo's situation and his own as he faces a barrage of ethics allegations, and he implicitly asked the conservatives to come to his defense as they have Schiavo's. A recording of the speech was supplied to TIME by Americans United for Separation of Church and State, an advocacy group:
"It is more than just Terri Schiavo. This is a critical issue for people in this position, and it is also a critical issue to fight that fight for life, whether it be euthanasia or abortion. I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, one thing God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo to elevate the visibility of what's going on in America. That Americans would be so barbaric as to pull a feeding tube out of a person that is lucid and starve them to death for two weeks. I mean, in America that's going to happen if we don't win this fight.
"And so it's bigger than any one of us, and we have to do everything that is in our power to save Terri Schiavo and anybody else that may be in this kind of position, and let me just finish with this:
"This is exactly the kind of issue that's going on in America, that attacks against the conservative moment, against me and against many others. The point is, the other side has figured out how to win and to defeat the conservative movement, and that is to go after people personally, charge them with frivolous charges, link up with all these do-gooder organizations funded by George Soros, and then get the national media on their side. That whole syndicate that they have going on right now is for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to destroy the conservative movement. It is to destroy conservative leaders, and not just in elected office, but leading. I mean, Ed Feulner, of the Heritage Foundation today was under attack in the National Journal. This is a huge nationwide concerted effort to destroy everything we believe in. And you need to look at this, and what's going on and participate in fighting back.
"You know, one way they stopped churches from getting into politics was Lyndon Johnson, who passed a law that said you couldn't get in politics or you're going to lose your tax-exempt status, because they were all opposed to him when he was running for President. That law we're trying to repeal. It's very difficult to do that, but the point is, when they can knock out a leader, then no other leader will step forward for a while, because they don't want to go through the same thing. If they go after and get a pastor, then other pastors shrink from what they should be doing. It forces Christians back into the church. That's what's going on in America. The world is too bad and I'm going to get inside this building and I'm not going to play in the world. That's not what Christ asked us to do.
"And so they understand that. It is a political maneuver, and they are going to try to destroy the conservative movement, and we have to fight back, so please, this afternoon, each and every one of you, if you know a senator, give them a call. They'll say our bill can pass in the House. Tell them, okay, your bill is fine, but the House bill is better, and I want the House bill. Particularly if you know Democrats. Don't let them get off the hook by hiding behind one House and the other is adjourned. We can do anything we need to do to pass any bill that we need to pass."
posted on March 28, 2005 08:38:24 PM new
Peepa - obviously you did not read anything after the first sentence or you would not have to ask the question. Yes, I do believe that operating within a global community and using available resources is good business.
There are jobs that don't neccesarily need to be outsourced, such as customer service. Luckily there are companies within the US that are finding ways to compete with offshore services by using home based employees thereby drastically reducing overhead costs.
As far as manufacturing...tell me, how many televisions do you thnk would sell each week if they were being manufactured by $20-30 an hour union workers? Now that you have drastically reduced sales you have also drastically reduced income to electronics stores which means less employees at the store, less income for the trucking companies, higher unemployment, less tax income from both sales and income taxes as well as less general spending in the neighborhoods that once hosted these stores which creates a vicious little circle.
Manufacturing is not going to return to this country. That boat has sailed. You can complain, you can pound your fists and call people names and even distort facts but that is the and simple truth. If we want to survive and thrive we better get with it because the rest of the world ain't buying into the notion that only america deserves growth and wealth. They want their piece of the pie. The smart individuals and companies are going to apply themselves to finding a way to work within the current world market.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 28, 2005 08:49:10 PM new
Prof - know but I can't help myself. I have dream... a dream that someday people will stop forming political opinion based on soundbytes
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 29, 2005 05:32:29 AM new
fenix03, get real. My original post was about this White House calling American citizens VIGILANTES. I then showed a poll showing what Americans thought about that statement. NOTHING MORE OR NOTHING LESS.
It was you that brought up your ideas about how cheap labor and outsourcing jobs was good for industry and its stock holders. It was you who said you believe that low paying service jobs are good for this country. It was you who brought up dollar devaluation. It was you that said importing cheap offshore products is good.
Then you tell me to "FOCUS". O.K. I'll "FOCUS" BY TELLING YOU WHAT YOU ARE SAYING SHOWS YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE SEPARATION OF CLASS IN AMERICA. SIMPLY PUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT WANT TO SEE THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER. ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT FEEL AS LONG AS YOU GOT YOURS THE HELL WITH THE REST OF YA.
People like you are in the minority and are no smarter than the majority. So things will change for the better of the majority maybe as soon as mid term elections.
posted on March 29, 2005 05:39:45 AM new
Yup, it's called keeping them down where they belong, bigpeepa. It's 19th, early 20th century thinking and as scary as it sounds, it's coming back around. Everything, and I mean everything, Roosevelt did to lift up the poor is being ripped away. Bit by bit by bit.
posted on March 29, 2005 07:06:09 AM new
::It was you that brought up your ideas about how cheap labor and outsourcing jobs was good for industry and its stock holders.::
Pay attention Peepa. Read the actual words.
I did not make a single mention about stockholders. I said that a strong stockmarket is good for the economy. It has nothing to do with the individual stockholders. It's about how a strong market has a positive effect on the country as a whole.
::It was you who said you believe that low paying service jobs are good for this country.::
I don't think I said a thing about that either. You keep trying to put those words in my mouth time and time again and I keep telling you what I am saying is that we need to adapt to a changing world and use our flair for invention and innovation to find new routes.
::ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT FEEL AS LONG AS YOU GOT YOURS THE HELL WITH THE REST OF YA.::
Hey Peepa, I get up at 7 in the morning and start working and I keep doing it until after midnight. I am constantly seeking new products, new suppliers and new markets. I do this because the skilled trade that I used to work in and love is currently paying about the same wage it was when I got out of high school which no one can live on. The world changes (or in that case, stays frighteningly the same) and people have to change and grow with it. I work my tail off but the thing is, anyone with a computer and a modicum of desire can do the exact same thing.
::So things will change for the better of the majority maybe as soon as mid term elections.::
What is it that you think is going to happen Peepa. Do you think that manufacturing is suddenly going to return? These are changes that have slowly been rolling in for the past 20 years and you think it is all going to suddenly change because of a midterm election? Wake up Peepa - it's a brave new world that keeps on rolling and that's a stationary soapbox you are standing on.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 29, 2005 07:22:59 AM new
::Yup, it's called keeping them down where they belong, bigpeepa.::
Come on Cheryl. What special skill or family legacy did it take for you to start your own business? Who was trying to hold you down as you did it? You live in a depressed area, had employment problems, etc. etc and rather than sit down and bemoan the problems, you found a solution. You used the resources at hand (the internet, time, and asian manufacturers) to create a new niche for yourself. THAT'S what I'm talking about. There is nothing out there to keep us from find new avenues and then expanding upon them. Why are we depending on the government to help us? Why can't we help ourselves, and help others find ways to do the same?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 29, 2005 09:20:19 AM new
fenix03, YOU SHOWED YOUR TRUE COLORS. I DON'T HAVE TIME TO PLAY YOUR (PICK WORD GAMES) WITH YOU. YOU SHOWED YOUR COLORS. IN MY BOOK YOU CAN GET LOST OLD GREEDY,SELF SERVING ONE.
Hey Cheryl, its good to see a person like you that cares about all of her fellow Americans.
Hey middle and working class America. Its important for you to watch what this White House and its supporters like FENIX03 are doing to ya.
FENIX03 says cheap foreign labor and products are good for industry,stock market,our dollar. Fenix03 says cheap foreign labor and products are good for YOU middle/working class America by creating jobs. LOL
The almighty dollar and greed guides fenix03 and the White House fenix03 supports. Nothing else.
I will print what fenix03 said and use his/her words as a hand out to people I visit today.
posted on March 29, 2005 09:47:55 AM new
Peepa are you really this dense? Quite frankly I couldn't give a rats ass what you think of me because anyone with two cents worth of intelligence and reading comprehension can see that your interpretation and my actual words have nothing in common. Your self righteous protector of the people act combined with use of all caps says all that needs to be known about you.
By all means. Please do spread my word among all that you know. Hopefully they have a little more perceptive and are a little less close minded than you.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 29, 2005 10:27 AM ]
